Elder Holland, The Poor

[MormonFreeThinker]

 Economic mobility is falling. 

 

The solution to our problems is God and Science 

 

Science helps a lot in court (DNA and fingerprints) 

Science helps a lot in security (Cell phones and video cameras)

Science can genetically modified food.

 

We need a bigger army of scientists and engineers.  

We need robots to secure our borders. 

We need nanotechnology in hospitals  

Science will end poverty 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOQpXy92_ws

Edited March 18, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[The Nehor]

The solution to our problems is God and Science

Science helps a lot in court (DNA and fingerprints)

Science helps a lot in security (Cell phones and video cameras)

Science can genetically modified food.

We need a bigger army of scientists and engineers.

We need robots to secure our borders.

We need nanotechnology in hospitals

Science will end poverty

Science needs to put up or shut up. The rhetoric about scientific advances ending poverty and providing for all have been around for over half a century. Scientific advancement has done some amazing things but they tend to overpromise. Edited March 18, 2015 by The Nehor

[MormonFreeThinker]

. Scientific advancement has done some amazing things but they tend to overpromise.

 

because we need more scientific researchers. As a Mormon transhumanist, I believe God uses science. 

The problem is that many of the top 1% are making it harder for people to become scientists because of the economy. 

There is also not enough scientific research funding, we haven't traveled to the moon in decades. 

 

I believe that one of the most important missions for us humans is science. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[The Nehor]

because we need more scientific researchers. As a Mormon transhumanist, I believe God uses science. 

The problem is that many of the top 1% are making it harder for people to become scientists because of the economy. 

There is also not enough scientific research funding, we haven't traveled to the moon in decades. 

 

I believe that one of the most important missions for us humans is science.

Good luck with that singularity thing.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Good luck with that singularity thing.

 

http://transfigurism.org/pages/about/

http://transfigurism.org/pages/about/transhumanist-declaration

 

 

Edited March 18, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[Calm]

Where are the jet packs and hover cars? Housecleaning robot!

Anyone else get to watch The Twentyfirst Century films with Walter Cronkite as narrator? I saw them in school. Boy, did they make things look good by now...can't remember all the claims but iirc only cellphones seem to be as far as predicted. Computers are more streamlined and much more compact than predicted but do pretty much as expected...though they probably had no clue of the culture that would come with it.

Edited March 18, 2015 by calmoriah

[MormonFreeThinker]

Where are the jet packs and hover cars?

 

Where are the scientists and engineers? There are not enough. 

Where are the funds to scientific research? Not enough. 

Where is the optimism? Why are science stoppers flourishing? 

We don't have hover cars, but we have computers and laptops. 

 

Look at the news, look at the new benefits that science is giving us, what a revolution. 

http://news.yahoo.com/vegas-police-officer-wearing-body-camera-facing-battery-205644396.html

 

I don't care about jet packs and hover cars, the scientific literature didn't predict hover cars by the year 2000. 

The media and movies are not the scientific literature. 

http://transfigurism.org/pages/about/

 

Edited March 18, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[Calm]

Everyone trusts Walter Cronkite.

[Scott Lloyd]

Where are the jet packs and hover cars? Housecleaning robot!

 

In addition to Walter Cronkite programs, it appears you watched your share of "The Jetsons" episodes.   

Edited March 18, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

I am pretty sure it is righteousness and not robots and nanotech that leads to utopia.

Edited March 18, 2015 by The Nehor

[thesometimesaint]

I am pretty sure it is righteousness and not robots and nanotech that leads to utopia.

 

Both have and can lead to dystopias.

From Cervantes to Asimov have written about them.

[Calm]

Grey goo may not be a likely scenario, but nanotechnology would be just as useful for building destructive products as constructive unfortunately:

 

http://www.crnano.org/PR-IOP.htm

[Deborah]

The top 1% get richer by making the poor get poorer. 

 

On what do you base this? A poor man can't give you a job. A poor man can't give large amounts of money to charities. Why is someone else getting richer making another person get poorer? The poor man isn't prevented from working or creating or being productive the same way most rich people became rich. Yes opportunity plays a role but some rich men will tell you they made their own opportunity. Do you know that most millionaires had an idea and started working out of their garages and as desire for their products grew their businesses grew? That is how they became rich not by taking from the poor, many who don't even pay taxes, for goodness sakes.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Deborah

[MormonFreeThinker]

On what do you base this? 

 

Economists (including Romney) are saying the wealth gap is getting bigger. 

It is also logic, in business someone profits more. 

 

 

Do you know that most millionaires had an idea and started working out of their garages and as desire for their products grew their businesses grew?

 

So? "There is a great deal of chance, or serendipity, or even luck to success in business" - Mitt Romney 

Even if all the poor had the capacity to get a better job, it still doesn't mean they deserve nothing for having a low wage job. All workers deserve a life, but a low wage job doesn't allow them to have a life. 

 

 

 many who don't even pay taxes, for goodness sakes.

 

CFR It is obvious that you are not poor. 

I am not saying that all the rich make the poor get poorer, but it is true in many cases. 

 

 

I am pretty sure it is righteousness and not robots and nanotech that leads to utopia.

 

Intelligence leads to utopia, study the Book of Abraham. 

We still need a bigger army of scientists. 

 

 

nanotechnology would be just as useful for building destructive products as constructive unfortunately:

 

nanotechnology may be useful for many things, not just for replicators .

Edited March 18, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[The Nehor]

On what do you base this? A poor man can't give you a job. A poor man can't give large amounts of money to charities. Why is someone else getting richer making another person get poorer? The poor man isn't prevented from working or creating or being productive the same way most rich people became rich. Yes opportunity plays a role but some rich men will tell you they made their own opportunity. Do you know that most millionaires had an idea and started working out of their garages and as desire for their products grew their businesses grew? That is how they became rich not by taking from the poor, many who don't even pay taxes, for goodness sakes.

Someone else getting richer only enriches others if the economy is growing. We have a finite amount of goods and services being produced. Unless we produce more increasing the buying power of one person means others buy less.

Most millionaires did not start out in their garage. The rags to riches stories make articles because inherited wealth or working your way up the corporate ladder possibly with dad's help make for boring stories. CFR on most millionaires coming from such humble beginnings.

[pogi]

Someone else getting richer only enriches others if the economy is growing. We have a finite amount of goods and services being produced. Unless we produce more increasing the buying power of one person means others buy less.

 

What I can't understand is what the heck these billionaires intend to do with their money, it is just sitting there in a bank not doing them or anybody else any good.  Imagine if they actually spent their money (minus savings for retirement and a modest inheritance to pass on), our economy would be booming! 

[JLHPROF]

What I can't understand is what the heck these billionaires intend to do with their money, it is just sitting there in a bank not doing them or anybody else any good.  Imagine if they actually spent their money (minus savings for retirement and a modest inheritance to pass on), our economy would be booming! 

 

Something to do with "net worth" whatever that is good for...

[The Nehor]

What I can't understand is what the heck these billionaires intend to do with their money, it is just sitting there in a bank not doing them or anybody else any good.  Imagine if they actually spent their money (minus savings for retirement and a modest inheritance to pass on), our economy would be booming!

It is a strange fact that our economy is built on imprudence. We panic when the economy is not growing fast enough. no wonder it is so unstable. Oddly if everyone in the nation followed the counsel of our prophets on financial prudence the economy would tank. Some people still think American Capitalism is something God thinks is wonderful. I am not sure how they reconcile that.

[pogi]

Something to do with "net worth" whatever that is good for...

 

I honestly don't know if it is money that will never leave the bank. 

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Someone else getting richer only enriches others if the economy is growing. We have a finite amount of goods and services being produced. Unless we produce more increasing the buying power of one person means others buy less.

 

So, you view getting rich as a zero sum game?

Edited March 18, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Most millionaires did not start out in their garage. The rags to riches stories make articles because inherited wealth or working your way up the corporate ladder possibly with dad's help make for boring stories. CFR on most millionaires coming from such humble beginnings.

CFR that most did not. Were are you getting your information from?

[The Nehor]

So, you view getting rich as a zero sum game?

No, but if I become rich and my presence does not commensurately increase the overall production of goods and services then I am, in a very small way, making others poorer. On an individual level the effect is miniscule but if enough do it it can make others less wealthy.

CFR that most did not. Were are you getting your information from?

You want me to prove that most millionaires did not make their money from a business started in their garage. I want to be clear that you are challenging this point before I curb-stomp you.

[Deborah]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathryndill/2013/09/18/by-their-bootstraps-billionaires-who-started-from-scratch/

 

I have been dirt poor and am by no means wealthy but I am doing ok now. Even at my poorest I never envied someone who had more because I knew someday I would do better as well. I think envy of another's wealth is not going to get you anywhere. Hard work and sacrifice will.

[thesometimesaint]

For the last 30 odd years the middle class in this country has been loosing ground. Now you come along and tell them they don't work hard enough and don't sacrifice enough. All I can say is :o

[mnn727]

I honestly don't know if it is money that will never leave the bank. 

Banks do not sit on money, they loan it out so they can make money (interest) if no one saved the economy would tank.

The reason the economy is stagnant right now is because the Fed requires them to have more assets (money) on hand than they did in the past.

 

Come on people, this is Econ 101 - hard to believe so many here don't understand real world economics and how money works. (not just the person I quoted - that was just one example)

Edited March 19, 2015 by mnn727