Elder Holland, The Poor

[gclayjr]

All,

 

I have been the financial clerk in our ward here in Pa, for many years. This calling has given me a great testimony about the spiritual side of the Fast Offering system. Unlike Satan's false copies of true Christlike Charity, the Fast Offering system allows those who give to show Christlike compassion and love, and those who receive a dignity and opportunity to grow. 

 

Part of the Bishop's job is to meet often with those who need assistance and help them to first determine their needs and resources, and then to help them to as much as possible work their way out of the difficulty they may find themselves in. Everybody is expected to do whatever they can to provide for themselves. That may be simply washing windows, or straightening Hymn books in the chapel or whatever, but do what they can.

 

I have seen people work their way out financial problems. I have also seen people who will always need some help, but still do what they can to support themselves, and the bishop fills in the difference, and also those who are quite unable to take care of themselves, and the church supports them in a modest but dignified manner.

 

Regards,

 

George Clay

[MormonFreeThinker]

And why has the middle class lost ground? It is not because the rich are taking advantage of them but because of government regulation, taxes, etc which have caused employers 

If the government is making big business suffer, why is the income gap growing? All of you are ignoring the growing income gap. 

Bytheway, the poor have been getting poorer in 2003 and since late 2007. 

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

 

Australia has the highest minimum wage law, and people are happy. 

 

Nehor what alternate world are you living in?

 

That is his point of view, there are no facts. 

 

Bytheway, climate change will make the poor get poorer because of scarcity. 

 

Edited March 19, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[JLHPROF]

So you're trying to tell us that Obama did not say  "If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

 

Yeah right.   I lost my health care under Obamacare switched to a ridiculously high deductible plan and raised the premium.

 

Anyone who thinks Obamacare is "government health care" has never lived anywhere with actual government health care.  Some days I really miss Canada.

[MormonFreeThinker]

What I can't understand is what the heck these billionaires intend to do with their money

 

The Walton Family (combined) has $144.7 billion dollars, half of that is enough to pay all USA associates at least 10 dollars an hour (30 hours a week) for 5 years. Most associates (adults) earn less than 8 dollars an hour. You have to work at Walmart for at least 2 years to get full time. 

I know because I worked there, many associates had two or three other jobs. 

 

Walton Family + Executive Managers + all other cooperate managers = a lot more than 144.7 billion, but they can't afford to help their workers.  I think half of the total of all of that is enough to pay all associates at least 15 dollars an hour (40 hours a week) for 20 years. 

 

Everybody ignores the warnings of the scriptures and the prophets. 

 

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of the Church issued a statement in 1875

“The experience of mankind has shown that the people of communities and nations among whom wealth is the most equally distributed, enjoy the largest degree of liberty, are the least exposed to tyranny and oppression and suffer the least from luxurious habits which beget vice...One of the great evils with which our own nation is menaced at the present time is the wonderful growth of wealth in the hands of a comparatively few individuals"  A Proclamation on the Economy from the First Presidency and Twelve (1875)  

Quoted in the History of Salt Lake City 

Edited March 19, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[Tacenda]

This is a myth. Obamacare largely impacts only the uninsured. The scare was that the requirements would make employers push people to part-time status. That never happened. In fact the only sector it seemed to happen in were government jobs. Those opposed to Obamacare are almost always in favor of smaller government so what are they complaining about? There were worries of insurance policies being cancelled. Insurance policy cancellations were crowed about but statistics show that there were roughly the same number of cancellations as there were before Obamacare. It was normal frictional shifting.

Tempest in teapot.

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for saying this. I think with every social care..for lack of a better word, the government puts out. It was probably met with a lot of skepticism until all the kinks were worked out. Edited March 20, 2015 by Tacenda

[ERayR]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for saying this. I think with every social care..for lack of a better word, the government puts out. It was probably met with a lot of skepticism until all the kinks were worked out.

 

Especially from those who have to pay for it..  The story of the Little Red Hen has a moral to it.  Look it up and read it.

[The Nehor]

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou for saying this. I think with every social care..for lack of a better word, the government puts out. It was probably met with a lot of skepticism until all the kinks were worked out.

I was trying to fight some misinformation. I think Obama's plan is timid and will likely have a negligible effect, either for good or ill.

This hits at a more basic level for me. I am not proud of what my nation has become. We have become feeble and gutless. It is easy to blame politicians and lobbyists but the people are the same way. I am grateful for the genius of the Founding Fathers and the institutions they have created but we seem to be squandering it. I look at the 50s and 60s where the U.S. was building dams by the hundreds, a cross-nation transportation infrastructure, and taking us to the moon while playing a game of nuclear chicken. Now we cannot even maintain what they gave us. Our infrastructure is on almost continuous hold while Congress only budgets it for the short-term making long-term projects impossible. We are the wealthiest nation on earth. We should be impressing the rest of the world. Solar power plants that run the whole nation, ambitious space projects, high-tech public transportation, building monuments of beauty, coming up with innovative and brilliant methods to cope with climate change, our litter problems, and a host of other issues, instead we squabble with government shutdowns and vile partisan hate-speech liberally peppered with deception. We are like pre-Civil War America with states at each other's throats and parties exploiting hatred between rural and urban, right and left, race against race.

We could be so much more. And I do not blame the politicians. I do not blame businesses though I have gripes with many of them individually. I blame the people as a whole. In an age of instant communication we have become isolated, selfish, grasping, petty, and unwilling to make sacrifices to achieve real greatness. I think we are fulfilling the scriptural prophecy about how men will be dulled in the last days. We are becoming stupid.

[Tacenda]

I was trying to fight some misinformation. I think Obama's plan is timid and will likely have a negligible effect, either for good or ill.

This hits at a more basic level for me. I am not proud of what my nation has become. We have become feeble and gutless. It is easy to blame politicians and lobbyists but the people are the same way. I am grateful for the genius of the Founding Fathers and the institutions they have created but we seem to be squandering it. I look at the 50s and 60s where the U.S. was building dams by the hundreds, a cross-nation transportation infrastructure, and taking us to the moon while playing a game of nuclear chicken. Now we cannot even maintain what they gave us. Our infrastructure is on almost continuous hold while Congress only budgets it for the short-term making long-term projects impossible. We are the wealthiest nation on earth. We should be impressing the rest of the world. Solar power plants that run the whole nation, ambitious space projects, high-tech public transportation, building monuments of beauty, coming up with innovative and brilliant methods to cope with climate change, our litter problems, and a host of other issues, instead we squabble with government shutdowns and vile partisan hate-speech liberally peppered with deception. We are like pre-Civil War America with states at each other's throats and parties exploiting hatred between rural and urban, right and left, race against race.

We could be so much more. And I do not blame the politicians. I do not blame businesses though I have gripes with many of them individually. I blame the people as a whole. In an age of instant communication we have become isolated, selfish, grasping, petty, and unwilling to make sacrifices to achieve real greatness. I think we are fulfilling the scriptural prophecy about how men will be dulled in the last days. We are becoming stupid.

I know that Obamacare is still too new to know the long term affects.  Hopefully it is like Social Security was in it's time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Social_Security_in_the_United_States  Quote from the article:  "Social Security was controversial when originally proposed, with one point of opposition being that it would allegedly cause a loss of jobs. However, proponents argued that there was in fact an advantage: it would encourage older workers to retire, thereby creating opportunities for younger people to find jobs, which would lower the unemployment rate.^{[citation needed]}

Opponents also decried the proposal as socialism.^[5][6][7] In a Senate Finance Committee hearing, one Senator asked Secretary of Labor Frances Perkins, "Isn't this socialism?" She said that it was not, but he continued, "Isn't this a teeny-weeny bit of socialism?"^[8]

 

Me:  Some thought it was a form of socialism back then.  All I know is that my daughter is able to get insurance because of it!  And when some (middle class) feel the pangs of Obamacare, doesn't it help to know that the poor have it?  Or am I up in the night?  

Edited March 20, 2015 by Tacenda

[Storm Rider]

Hello Tacenda,

This seems to be getting too far into the area of politics.  However, this is what I can tell you about how this policy has affected me.  The insurance policy I had was canceled with the introduction of this bill.  Now my policy, which is just for me, pays for childhood dental care, prenatal care, pregnancies, and a host of additional coverage that has no value to a married man.  I had a liver transplant in 1999 and my medical care annually remains much greater than for the average person.  My new policy does not pay for any of my annual tests and only partially for the consistent blood work that is done.  My coverage on my prescriptions was lowered.  Basically, this new care costs me more than $8,000 annually for a policy that does not begin to come close to what I had previously.  It has been devastating for me and my family.

 

You can keep your doctors - No, that was a lie.  You can keep your policy - no, that was a lie also.  How does a legislative group vote on something they have not read and do not understand?  I support a national health care plan, but this was not a good beginning.

[Tacenda]

Hello Tacenda,

This seems to be getting too far into the area of politics. However, this is what I can tell you about how this policy has affected me. The insurance policy I had was canceled with the introduction of this bill. Now my policy, which is just for me, pays for childhood dental care, prenatal care, pregnancies, and a host of additional coverage that has no value to a married man. I had a liver transplant in 1999 and my medical care annually remains much greater than for the average person. My new policy does not pay for any of my annual tests and only partially for the consistent blood work that is done. My coverage on my prescriptions was lowered. Basically, this new care costs me more than $8,000 annually for a policy that does not begin to come close to what I had previously. It has been devastating for me and my family.

You can keep your doctors - No, that was a lie. You can keep your policy - no, that was a lie also. How does a legislative group vote on something they have not read and do not understand? I support a national health care plan, but this was not a good beginning.

That is eyeopening! I hope they work on this and I'm sorry that is your situation! I guess I don't know very much at all. But I'm with you, I think we need a national health plan. Edited March 20, 2015 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

Especially from those who have to pay for it..  The story of the Little Red Hen has a moral to it.  Look it up and read it.

 

The Little Red Hen depended on Farmer Smith.

 

The US pays far more in health care costs and receives far less care.

SEE http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/07/07/countries-spending-the-most-on-health-care/

[Calm]

And if they reformed the litigation of malpractice those funds would go much further...but since the legislature is full of lawyers, it is unlikely to happen.

Building on a corrupt foundation isn't going to lead to a secure and effective structure IMO. Much time and resources will be wasted by having to continually prop up a part that is falling to pieces.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

The Little Red Hen depended on Farmer Smith.

 

The US pays far more in health care costs and receives far less care.

SEE http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/07/07/countries-spending-the-most-on-health-care/

I wonder why that is. Obama care cost or will cost us 2.7 trillion dollars and there are still 38 million uninsured. So the idea that it will cut cost and insure us all was another big lie. The intital reason to pass it was to make sure every one had insurance. What I can glean from this is that it is cost us 2.7 trillion to insure 9 million people. What a waste. There are much better ways that would cost a fraction of the cost.

 

This is pretty much the stupid plan that has ever been "passed". If nothing is ever a stronger testimony to the failure of government then obamacare, and you guys don't see that, then nothing will ever change your mind. I cant make you see, I hope you will. So far nothing good has come from this debacle of a law. And from my first hand experience, everything cost more and I get less coverage than I did before this thing was implemented.  And I don't see that changing. Ugh, oh well. I wonder what the point of even talking about it is. Some people are just in denial.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Mormonmaniac]

It wouldn't offend me at all if our entire state and federal government went bankrupt and suddenly all of that social infrastructure died with it.

[Calm]

Do you have kids?

[Mormonmaniac]

calmoriah, was that directed towards me?

[The Nehor]

I wonder why that is. Obama care cost or will cost us 2.7 trillion dollars and there are still 38 million uninsured. So the idea that it will cut cost and insure us all was another big lie. The intital reason to pass it was to make sure every one had insurance. What I can glean from this is that it is cost us 2.7 trillion to insure 9 million people. What a waste. There are much better ways that would cost a fraction of the cost.

 

This is pretty much the stupid plan that has ever been "passed". If nothing is ever a stronger testimony to the failure of government then obamacare, and you guys don't see that, then nothing will ever change your mind. I cant make you see, I hope you will. So far nothing good has come from this debacle of a law. And from my first hand experience, everything cost more and I get less coverage than I did before this thing was implemented.  And I don't see that changing. Ugh, oh well. I wonder what the point of even talking about it is. Some people are just in denial.

Yes...release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me.

[Calm]

calmoriah, was that directed towards me?

Yes. Just curious. If you don't want to go into personal details, ignore it.

[MormonFreeThinker]

If gov is making big corporations suffer, why are the rich getting richer? Why is the income gap growing? 

Nobody can answer that question. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[Mormonmaniac]

Yes. Just curious. If you don't want to go into personal details, ignore it.

I have 3 children I can call my own

[thesometimesaint]

I wonder why that is. Obama care cost or will cost us 2.7 trillion dollars and there are still 38 million uninsured. So the idea that it will cut cost and insure us all was another big lie. The intital reason to pass it was to make sure every one had insurance. What I can glean from this is that it is cost us 2.7 trillion to insure 9 million people. What a waste. There are much better ways that would cost a fraction of the cost.

 

This is pretty much the stupid plan that has ever been "passed". If nothing is ever a stronger testimony to the failure of government then obamacare, and you guys don't see that, then nothing will ever change your mind. I cant make you see, I hope you will. So far nothing good has come from this debacle of a law. And from my first hand experience, everything cost more and I get less coverage than I did before this thing was implemented.  And I don't see that changing. Ugh, oh well. I wonder what the point of even talking about it is. Some people are just in denial.

 

The only industrialized country on this planet that does not have universal health care is the US. That is why ours is more expensive.  As to the costs

SEE http://obamacarefacts.com/costof-obamacare

[Deborah]

If gov is making big corporations suffer, why are the rich getting richer? Why is the income gap growing? 

Nobody can answer that question. 

 

Common sense: if corporations are having to pay more out they will hold on tighter to what they have and cut back on growth (meaning fewer people are hired or more are laid off) and salary increases. The poor thus beome poorer because of less opportunity.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Common sense: if corporations are having to pay more out they will hold on tighter to what they have and cut back on growth (meaning fewer people are hired or more are laid off) and salary increases. The poor thus beome poorer because of less opportunity.

 

but the rich shouldn't get richer. Why is the income gap growing?

Their billions are growing, not decreasing.

 

You answer is not convincing, where is the evidence? or is it just an assumption because someone else told you?

 

There is a reason why Walmart, Target, and others are  increasing their minimum wage. 

They realized that it's better. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[JLHPROF]

There is a reason why Walmart, Target, and others are  increasing their minimum wage. 

 

Yeah, they are having a hard time getting the staff at low wage.

 

As some one who has worked big box retail for years trust me.  There are only two reasons national chains raise their wage bands.

Legislation and competition.

 

Here is the truth for the second time in this thread.

Edited March 21, 2015 by JLHPROF

[thesometimesaint]

One word SEARS

SEE http://crooksandliars.com/2015/03/sears-where-america-used-shop-and-why-they