Elder Holland, The Poor

[mnn727]

nevermind

Edited March 19, 2015 by mnn727

[The Nehor]

Banks do not sit on money, they loan it out so they can make money (interest) if no one saved the economy would tank.

The reason the economy is stagnant right now is because the Fed requires them to have more assets (money) on hand than they did in the past.

 

Come on people, this is Econ 101 - hard to believe so many here don't understand real world economics and how money works. (not just the person I quoted - that was just one example)

There does need to be some money for lending but if my bank interest is any indication we definitely have a glut. The supply of money for lending is plenty high.

[Deborah]

For the last 30 odd years the middle class in this country has been loosing ground. Now you come along and tell them they don't work hard enough and don't sacrifice enough. All I can say is :o ,

 

And why has the middle class lost ground? It is not because the rich are taking advantage of them but because of government regulation, taxes, etc which have caused employers to tighten their belts, lay people off and cut hours and wages.

[The Nehor]

And why has the middle class lost ground? It is not because the rich are taking advantage of them but because of government regulation, taxes, etc which have caused employers to tighten their belts, lay people off and cut hours and wages.

Taxes are low right now and there has not been a big increase in regulation.

Next theory?

The real reason employers are having to tighten their belts is that people have less money to spend so there is less demand for goods and revenue (and profits) fall.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Come on people, this is Econ 101 - hard to believe so many here don't understand real world economics and how money works. (not just the person I quoted - that was just one example)

 

Romney studied that at Harvard, he agrees with us that the income gap is growing. 

That is logic, for the rich to get richer, someone else needs to get poorer. 

 

Science is the solution 

 

Edited March 19, 2015 by MormonFreeThinker

[mnn727]

Romney studied that at Harvard, he agrees with us that the income gap is growing. 

That is logic, for the rich to get richer, someone else needs to get poorer. 

 

 You quote me then your reply has nothing to do with what I quoted. You love that strawman, don't you?

[Deborah]

Taxes are low right now and there has not been a big increase in regulation.

 

 

For whom? Have you heard of Obamacare? That is the primary reason for downsizing which leads to lower incomes which leads to less demand for goods because people have no money.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

For whom? Have you heard of Obamacare? That is the primary reason for downsizing which leads to lower incomes which leads to less demand for goods because people have no money.

Some times I wonder??

 

That alone is a huge reason for lower wages. And it will only get worse.

[The Nehor]

For whom? Have you heard of Obamacare? That is the primary reason for downsizing which leads to lower incomes which leads to less demand for goods because people have no money.

This is a myth. Obamacare largely impacts only the uninsured. The scare was that the requirements would make employers push people to part-time status. That never happened. In fact the only sector it seemed to happen in were government jobs. Those opposed to Obamacare are almost always in favor of smaller government so what are they complaining about? There were worries of insurance policies being cancelled. Insurance policy cancellations were crowed about but statistics show that there were roughly the same number of cancellations as there were before Obamacare. It was normal frictional shifting.

Tempest in teapot.

[mnn727]

This is a myth. Obamacare largely impacts only the uninsured. The scare was that the requirements would make employers push people to part-time status. That never happened. 

Actually there are reports weekly of this happening. Wally World for one.

[mnn727]

There were worries of insurance policies being cancelled. Insurance policy cancellations were crowed about but statistics show that there were roughly the same number of cancellations as there were before Obamacare. It was normal frictional shifting.

 

You're joking, right?

 7-10 million people/policies cancelled just due to Obamacare requirements isn't a big enough number for you?

 

I seem to remember: "If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

Edited March 19, 2015 by mnn727

[The Nehor]

Actually there are reports weekly of this happening. Wally World for one.

There are reports of it happening. Businesses love to blame Obamacare because it shifts the blame from them for cutting things. If I was an unscrupulous business owner in a red state and wanted to cut hours or benefits or wages for my employees to increase my bottom line I could blame Obamacare's new requirements and many of my employees would cease to blame me.

[thesometimesaint]

The ACA has been in effect from beginning in 2010 to full implementation in 2014. Funny how it negatively impacted wages for the last 30 years. :acute:

[ERayR]

And why has the middle class lost ground? It is not because the rich are taking advantage of them but because of government regulation, taxes, etc which have caused employers to tighten their belts, lay people off and cut hours and wages.

 

You are correct it is government that is taking advantage of everyone.

[ERayR]

This is a myth. Obamacare largely impacts only the uninsured. The scare was that the requirements would make employers push people to part-time status. That never happened. In fact the only sector it seemed to happen in were government jobs. Those opposed to Obamacare are almost always in favor of smaller government so what are they complaining about? There were worries of insurance policies being cancelled. Insurance policy cancellations were crowed about but statistics show that there were roughly the same number of cancellations as there were before Obamacare. It was normal frictional shifting.

Tempest in teapot.

 

Nehor what alternate world are you living in?

[The Nehor]

You're joking, right?

 7-10 million people/policies cancelled just due to Obamacare requirements isn't a big enough number for you?

 

I seem to remember: "If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

That statement was a half-truth at best. The correct statement should have been you can keep your plan assuming it meets the mandatory benefits and guidelines laid down by the ACA. Most of the cancellations are plans that did not meet those requirements. Most of those with cancellations now fall under Medicaid or qualify for subsidies to get an improved plan. Very few permanently lost insurance.

I was not and am still not a fan of Obamacare. I think we either need to go full socialized medicine or remove insurance entirely and set up a system where you pay for your own healthcare out of pocket with some kind of safety net for catastrophic costs. As it is we sink a huge amount of money into the insurance field for "healthcare" which does not actually produce any health care which is why we spend an obscene amount of money per capita on health care compared to every other nation on earth. I hold little hope for real change. Dismantling huge industries with lots of money for lobbying is never easy no matter how useless they are.

[The Nehor]

You are correct it is government that is taking advantage of everyone.

Nehor what alternate world are you living in?

Whatever one it is I am convinced I would need harder drugs to get to yours.

[thesometimesaint]

You are correct it is government that is taking advantage of everyone.

 

Taxes are at historic lows.

SEE http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3151

 

The effective tax rates are at historic lows.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456

 

Companies that pay little to no taxes.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/23/big-companies-pay-no-taxes/2480281/

 

Carried interest for CEO pay.

http://www.interest.com/cd-rates/slide-show/the-carried-interest-loophole/

 

Glass-Steagall

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Legislation

[The Nehor]

Taxes are at historic lows.

SEE http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3151

 

The effective tax rates are at historic lows.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456

 

Companies that pay little to no taxes.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/10/23/big-companies-pay-no-taxes/2480281/

 

Carried interest for CEO pay.

http://www.interest.com/cd-rates/slide-show/the-carried-interest-loophole/

 

Glass-Steagall

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Legislation

This, why does no one actually look at historical tax rates before complaining about how high they are? They are not hard to find.

[JLHPROF]

This, why does no one actually look at historical tax rates before complaining about how high they are? They are not hard to find.

 

Heck, check out European tax rates.

And yet oddly enough the standard of living in most of those countries is the same (or better) than here.

 

Or God's true tax rate (100%).  But then, oh the blessings!

Edited March 19, 2015 by JLHPROF

[mnn727]

That statement was a half-truth at best. The correct statement should have been you can keep your plan assuming it meets the mandatory benefits and guidelines laid down by the ACA. 

You posted a half-truth, you are correct in that is what the statement SHOULD have been - but Obama did not say it that way, he say we could keep it period 

[The Nehor]

You posted a half-truth, you are correct in that is what the statement SHOULD have been - but Obama did not say it that way, he say we could keep it period

I did not post that half-truth. You did. I am not defending Obama or Obamacare. I am opposed to the hyperbole and lies propagated about both. I have told you what I think should be done with healthcare.

[mnn727]

I did not post that half-truth. You did. I am not defending Obama or Obamacare. I am opposed to the hyperbole and lies propagated about both. I have told you what I think should be done with healthcare.

So you're trying to tell us that Obama did not say  "If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

[The Nehor]

So you're trying to tell us that Obama did not say  "If you like your private health insurance plan, you can keep your plan. Period."

No. I did not give the quote and defend it. I did not give the quote and attack it. You gave it and I said it was a half-truth.

Obama did say that and it was at best a half-truth. It was a bad thing to do.

It does not follow that Obamacare tanked the economy.

[mnn727]

 

read that wrong, deleted  response that had nothing to do with what was posted.

Edited March 19, 2015 by mnn727