Rain Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 I REALLY hesitate to post this, but the question just occurred to me after reading another thread. Please respect my feelings and do not post about current events. Make your own thread for that. If you lose the gift of the Holy Ghost either through withdrawing your name from the church or excommunication do you still have the light of Christ? For that matter, do you still have it while you have the gift of the Holy Ghost? Is one just an increase of understand/companionship etc. or are they 2 separate, but similar, things?
halconero Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 The more I study the gift of the Holy Ghost and his role as a testator, the more I feel that the saving nature of receiving his companionship extends beyond promptings and revelation. While these are vital to our salvation, and may be increased by the worthy acceptance of the sacrament of his gift, the Holy Ghost's role as "testator" or the executor of the Father's will of inheritance is what saves us. It is he who oversees the dispensing and distribution of our portion of God's Kingdom, be it gifts such as ordinances, or eventually thrones, principalities, and powers. This is a round about way of answering your question, but what I'm trying to say is that the light of Christ, or the influence of God for us to "be good and do good" will be with every one, be they member, non-member, less-active member, or ex-member, so long as they desire and strive to act as Jesus might. The Holy Ghost may not fully see to their inheriting the Kingdom of God without his Gift though. 1
Tsuzuki Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 Moroni's promise implies that you can receive the promptings of the Holy Ghost even when you don't have the gift of constant companionship. 1
rpn Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 “The gift of the Holy Ghost...quickens all the intellectual faculties, increases, enlarges, expands, and purifies all the natural passions and affections, and adapts them, by the gift of wisdom, to their lawful use. It inspires, develops, cultivates, and matures all the fine-toned sympathies, joys, tastes, kindred feelings, and affections of our nature. It inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness, and charity. It develops beauty of person, form, and features. It tends to health, vigor, animation, and social feeling. It invigorates all the faculties of the physical and intellectual man. It strengthens and gives tone to the nerves. In short, it is, as it were, marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears, and life to the whole being.”― Parley P. Pratt 1
DaddyB Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 The most brilliant talk on understanding the interaction of the Holy Ghost with the Light of Christ was given in 1975 by Stephen R. Covey, called An Educated Conscience. Here is the link to that talk. http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=948
Jeanne Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 This may not mean anything to anyone but me. I resigned in 2008. I remember the spirit well..I do! How I felt on many occasions in what I call "goosebumps" on the inside and a sort of light in knowledge. I still have this. That is all that I can say. There are warm and inspiring and uplifting feelings that have come to me since that I have recognized. I believe that we are all a part of eachother and that is our light. What we learn and how we grow in any capacity enlightens us. I still walk with God and prayer. Jeanne 1
JLHPROF Posted August 28, 2014 Posted August 28, 2014 I REALLY hesitate to post this, but the question just occurred to me after reading another thread. Please respect my feelings and do not post about current events. Make your own thread for that. If you lose the gift of the Holy Ghost either through withdrawing your name from the church or excommunication do you still have the light of Christ? For that matter, do you still have it while you have the gift of the Holy Ghost? Is one just an increase of understand/companionship etc. or are they 2 separate, but similar, things? Yes, you still have the light of Christ - it is still within most people to do right rather than wrong, to show love instead of hate. But the more light you gain the more light you lose when you walk away. Can a person who loses the gift of the Holy Ghost still feel promptings of the spirit? Of course. Can a person who receives their calling and election and then falls feel the promptings of the spirit? Doubtful because they fall further towards perdition. Being excommunicated comes with a cost, but I don't consider that cost to be complete abandonment by the spirit of God.
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 I have come to understand that the gift of the Holy Ghost is the power to speak with the tongue of angels- to speak the words of Christ with authority. This is different than the "light of Christ" which quickeneth our understandings and leads us to do what is right.
Avatar4321 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Another question, if you withdrawal or leave the Church did you ever actually receive the Holy Ghost?
Tsuzuki Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Another question, if you withdrawal or leave the Church did you ever actually receive the Holy Ghost?Why wouldn't someone have received it?
Avatar4321 Posted August 29, 2014 Posted August 29, 2014 Why wouldn't someone have received it? Being confirmed doesn't give the gift. It just gives you the right to receive it.Lorenzo Snow taught this clearly with his own life. It was several weeks after His baptism that He received the Holy Ghost. He realized He had not, He went to pray and the Lord sent the Holy Ghost. The Apostles at the time of Christ were confirmed by Christ Himself. They had to wait 40 days after His ascension on the day of Pentecost before They received it. The Nephite Disciples likewise baptized and confirmed the crowds, but it was only later when they in unison prayed for the Holy Ghost that they finally received it. The Lamanites received the Gift of the Holy Ghost without knowing it. Confirmation just confers the right, not the actual blessing until we seek it. During Confirmation we are commanded to Receive the Holy Ghost.
SouthBayMC Posted August 30, 2014 Posted August 30, 2014 I find 5 important distinctions and below they are put in order of progression, that being, from an investigator’s perspective and moving forward to the highest goal, I would say, of a faithful member. Now no one of these is more or less important, per say than the others, and all can be held in various degrees together. “The Light of Christ” --- This is the binding force or influence of all of creation. It is given to all mankind. It is how we come to know good vs. evil. This could be termed our conscience. The Light of Christ is what every investigator at minimum can bring to the discussions (the missionary discussions). Of course some investigators can be more in tuned with the Light of Christ than others due to a variety of things such as their upbringing, the TV, the world as they see it, and probably most importantly there own choices up to that point in their life. If they (or anyone), ignores this conscience then after time they become ‘numb’ to it. “The Holy Ghost – his Spirit” --- can bear truth to anyone who is in tune. This is usually in our church what is termed the Spirit of the Lord and Comforter. He can come to man for a short time only and in brief strokes and it is possible that the investigator has been privy to this. “The Holy Ghost – his person” --- this is the actual personage of the Holy Ghost which personage is in the form of a spirit. It is not very common for the Holy Ghost, his personage to appear to a investigator or member, but it nonetheless can occur. This is different than the HG ‘his spirit’ or the HG the ‘gift’. “The Gift of the Holy Ghost” --- After the investigator is baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS church (laying on of hands) they have the privilege to constant companionship of the Holy Ghost – his spirit. When we speak of divine confirmation this is what we normally mean. When members of the church receive revelation, it is generally in our Church by the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost teaches us and by him we can know with assuredly eternal concepts. “The Second Comforter” --- This is none other than Jesus Christ himself. A worthy member of the Church reaches a state when they can receive this ‘2nd comforter’. This is where those members’ calling of election is made sure and they can know all the mysteries of the kingdom.
CV75 Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 I REALLY hesitate to post this, but the question just occurred to me after reading another thread. Please respect my feelings and do not post about current events. Make your own thread for that. If you lose the gift of the Holy Ghost either through withdrawing your name from the church or excommunication do you still have the light of Christ? For that matter, do you still have it while you have the gift of the Holy Ghost? Is one just an increase of understand/companionship etc. or are they 2 separate, but similar, things?I believe that even with the loss of the Gift of the Holy Ghost, one can still be receptive to the light of Christ (D& 84, 88), but whatever rejection he gave it in connection to his loss of the Gift of the Holy Ghost would require repentance to overcome, for his receptivity has been seared as with a hot iron (Timothy 4).
cdowis Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Elder Bednar addresses these issues. See the videos that accompany his talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/04/the-spirit-of-revelation?lang=eng
Rain Posted September 1, 2014 Author Posted September 1, 2014 Thank you. I've got a basic understanding of the light of Christ, but I don't really understand just what it is. I'll check out the links here in a few days when I can see them on the computer.
Calm Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 Lou Midgley sees the Light of Christ as the Gospel, not some type of "Holy Ghost Jr.". If you are interested in that POV I can dig up more."The light of Christ (the Gospel), we are told somewhere in our scriptures, shines into the darkness (of this sin bound world), which does not comprehend or accept that wonderful soul ennobling light. But the invitation is always there for all of us to turn to the one–the only name and so forth–who is the Way, Life, Truth, and whose remarkable story is the Light that (should) enlighten our way in the darkness here below. "From here on the board...
teddyaware Posted September 1, 2014 Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Lou Midgley sees the Light of Christ as the Gospel, not some type of "Holy Ghost Jr.". If you are interested in that POV I can dig up more."The light of Christ (the Gospel), we are told somewhere in our scriptures, shines into the darkness (of this sin bound world), which does not comprehend or accept that wonderful soul ennobling light. But the invitation is always there for all of us to turn to the one–the only name and so forth–who is the Way, Life, Truth, and whose remarkable story is the Light that (should) enlighten our way in the darkness here below. "From here on the board...Doctrine and Covenants 88 makes it clear that the light of Christ is God's living, actuating power that proceeds from His presence and fills the immensity of space. It is not merely a set of abstract laws and commandments printed on a page. The divine power that is within the light of Christ makes things happen. More than the Gospel in print, the light of Christ provides the power one needs in order to believe, comprehend, live and continually grow in the Gospel until the perfect day. From the Encyclopedia of Mormonism:"The Light of Christ refers to the spiritual power that emanates from God to fill the immensity of space and enlightens every man, woman, and child. Other terms sometimes used to denote this same phenomenon are Holy Spirit, "Spirit of the Lord," and "Spirit of Truth," but it is different from the Holy Ghost...Jesus Christ is the light and life of the world (John 8:12; 3 Ne. 15:9). This light is described in the Doctrine and Covenants 88 as "the same light that quickeneth your understandings; which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space -- the light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things...This light manifests itself in different ways and degrees. In its "less refined existence," wrote Parley P. Pratt, it is visible as sunlight. It is also the refined "intellectual light of our inward and spiritual organs, by which we reason, discern, judge, compare, comprehend, and remember the subjects within our reach." It is revealed as instinct in animals, reason in man, and vision in the prophets (p. 25).John A. Widtsoe gave this general description of the emanation of God's power: "God is a personal being of body-a body limited in extent. He cannot, therefore, at a given moment be personally everywhere…. By his power, will and word, [he] is everywhere present…. The Holy Spirit permeates all the things of the universe, material and spiritual" (Widtsoe, pp. 68-69)." The light of Christ is an actual substance, a spiritual substance that is filled with the light, life and power of God Himself. Through the conveying capacity of this holy substance, God is able to fill His creation with the same divine light, life and power that animates His own being. The light of Christ is not an abstraction; It is a substance of heavenly power. The light of Christ is the divine substance that makes the Gospel real, believable, understandable, livable, powerful and redemptive. Edited September 2, 2014 by teddyaware 2
cinepro Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Thank you.I've got a basic understanding of the light of Christ, but I don't really understand just what it is. I'll check out the links here in a few days when I can see them on the computer. The Holy Ghost is an actual personage. The Light of Christ is more ephemeral. It's like an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together. 1
Ahab Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Ideas worth thinking about:light of Christ: What is meant by the word light? In contrast to darkness? Intelligence is light and truth, but what do we mean when we refer to his light? And how is it his light? Why is it referred to as his light? Does anyone else have the same kind of light in the same sense that he has it? If so, and we have it, can't it also be referred to as our light?the gift of the Holy Ghost:What is a gift? What does the Holy Ghost give to the people he gives something to? And why do we say "the" gift of the Holy Ghost, instead of "a" gift? He gives more than only one gift, so why do we think of one in particular as "the" gift he gives us? And where did he get it? Did he always have and always give that gift to people, or did someone else give him that gift to give us? And how much or how often can we get of that gift from him? Is it a gift that keeps on giving and can we also give that gift to others if we have it?
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