Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Canadaigua]

       We have read/seen/heard these criticisms thousands of times and answered/responded adinfinentum. 

1.  And yet what I have said is true with respect to Christians and LDS believing in a different God and a different Gospel--remember it goes both ways--LDS believe that same thing about Christians.  From a Christian point of view since Mormons believe in a different God and a different Gospel they won't be saved.  Likewise Mormons believe that Christians believe in a different God and a different Gospel they won't be exalted.

 

2.  I attend a non denomination Christian church. 

[Canadaigua]

Council of Gods organizing matter: That means "God created". There is NO biblical obligation for ex nihilo creation and while there's no explicit demand for ex material creation, the Bible does tend to lean in that direction.

 

Below are a couple of verses that I feel support God creating all things rather than your position that God organized pre-existing matter.  You said that ". . .there's no explicit demand for ex material creation, the Bible does tend to lean in that direction."  Can you share those verses with me so I can take a look at them/

 

John 1:3  All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Acts 14:15  . . .God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

Hebrews 11:3  By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Revelation 4:11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” 

[Flyonthewall]

Here is my statement that you are responding to--"The reason that Christians say that Mormons are not Christian is that they follow a different God (or Gods) and that they follow a different gospel."

We follow God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Apparently you follow something different?

The Gospel we follow is that Jesus lived, suffered for our sins and died for us, and was resurrected, all as part of the Atonement. Apparently you believe something different?

 

LDS seem taken back when Christians make these kinds of statements.  However LDS hold the exact same beliefs about the Christian God and Christian gospel--ie that Christians are following a false God and a false Gospel.  

LDS do not hold the exact same beliefs about Traditional or mainstream Christianity. We believe they follow the same God we do but do err in understanding.

 

You said, "It is true that we don't follow the Trinitarian God, we follow the true Biblical God."  But wouldn't it follow that if you follow the God of the Bible that your beliefs would line up with what is taught about God in the Bible?

Our beliefs line up with everything that is taught about God in the Bible.

[Canadaigua]

We follow God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Apparently you follow something different?

The Gospel we follow is that Jesus lived, suffered for our sins and died for us, and was resurrected, all as part of the Atonement. Apparently you believe something different?

 

LDS do not hold the exact same beliefs about Traditional or mainstream Christianity. We believe they follow the same God we do but do err in understanding.

 

Our beliefs line up with everything that is taught about God in the Bible.

Can a Christian retain his beliefs in the Christian God and the Christian gospel and be exalted?

[Canadaigua]

Our beliefs line up with everything that is taught about God in the Bible.

Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?  Or would you say that these beliefs are from some other source other than that Bible?

[Storm Rider]

Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?  Or would you say that these beliefs are from some other source other than that Bible?

 

It appears a waste of time correcting you on what is and what is not LDS doctrines so I will not try.  Let's focus on your beliefs and your logic.

 

What you are saying is that there are beliefs about God and Jesus that negate his ability to save an individual's soul.  If all one has to do is believe in Jesus to be saved do you have a Biblical verse that negates that saving grace because of additional beliefs?

[Flyonthewall]

Can a Christian retain his beliefs in the Christian God and the Christian gospel and be exalted?

I believe that all truth will be taught and we all have the opportunity to accept or reject it, whether it lines up with LDS teachings or mainstream Christianity's teachings.

If we believe Jesus wore a white robe and you believe He wore a brown robe - that difference is not going to make one difference in where you or I end up.

[Flyonthewall]

Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?  Or would you say that these beliefs are from some other source other than that Bible?

Again, you are taking something that is a philosophical speculation, and trying to turn it into official doctrine. I have quoted Prophet that has addressed this and you will not accept what is said.

So what does that say about your ability to understand what we believe?

That being said, Joseph Smith did indeed use the Bible to justify his rational behind what he said. You simply disagree with the conclusion.

We believe in the same God, just draw different conclusions about Him, nothing of which will have a bearing on anyone's salvation.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Flyonthewall

[Anakin7]

    Canadaigua, yes we have diferent form/model/perception of God, Ours is the early Israelite/Saint/Christian vrs your greek/platonic. Which non denominational church do you attend to worship ?.

 

    In His Debt/Grace

           Anakin7

[Canadaigua]

    Canadaigua, yes we have diferent form/model/perception of God, Ours is the early Israelite/Saint/Christian vrs your greek/platonic. Which non denominational church do you attend to worship ?.

 

    In His Debt/Grace

           Anakin7

Non denomination means that it is not affiliated with a denomination.

 

Can you show me from the Bible the unique beliefs you have about God?

[Calm]

Why must it be from the Bible? The Bible itself is a collection of writings, nothing in it prevents more from being added. Nothing in it prevents God from speaking to Man again.

I see no reason to apply non biblical rules in how to respond to the Bible.

Edited September 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[Canadaigua]

Again, you are taking something that is a philosophical speculation, and trying to turn it into official doctrine. I have quoted Prophet that has addressed this and you will not accept what is said.

So what does that say about your ability to understand what we believe?

That being said, Joseph Smith did indeed use the Bible to justify his rational behind what he said. You simply disagree with the conclusion.

We believe in the same God, just draw different conclusions about Him, nothing of which will have a bearing on anyone's salvation.

"Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?"

 

I think that the only point of my question above that you have taken issue with was "became a God",  which I provided 2 quotes that stated that this was the case--and I have a lot more that I could add.  But what about the rest of the points that I brought up do you believe they can be supported using the Bible or will you concede that they are from extra Biblical sources?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Canadaigua

[Canadaigua]

Why must it be from the Bible? The Bible itself is a collection of writings, nothing in it prevents more from being added. Nothing in it prevents God from speaking to Man again.

I see no reason to apply non biblical rules in how to respond to the Bible.

 "Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?"

 

The subject of this thread is addressed to Evangelicals asking us if we consider LDS Christians.  You asked "Why must it be from the Bible?"  And the simple answer is because the basis for Evangelical beliefs is from the Bible.

[Calm]

When you can convince me and the rest of LDS the Trinity Evangelical version is from the Bible without nonbiblical additions that fundamentally alter the biblical teachings, your answer might be able to be used to ground a conversation about why LDS can't be Christian in their beliefs. Until then I suspect most of us just see a double standard.

[Flyonthewall]

"Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?"

 

I think that the only point of my question above that you have taken issue with was "became a God",  which I provided 2 quotes that stated that this was the case--and I have a lot more that I could add.  But what about the rest of the points that I brought up do you believe they can be supported using the Bible or will you concede that they are from extra Biblical sources?

The concepts you bring up are extra biblical, however, the Bible does not negate them either.

I take it you are trying to put out there that the Bible contains the sum total of all information about God? If it is not in the Bible then it is simply not true? Most of Christianity is based on extra biblical commentary and philosophies.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Flyonthewall

[Darren10]

I don't see any way you could interpret these two verses in Genesis 1 ""in the beginning" there was water. . ." And if this was the case why not simply say "in the beginning" there was water. . ."?

Genesis 1 speaks of the creation as there existing God and "water". "Water" is what God used to create the earth according to the apostle Peter.

As stated, you have a valid point that the bible does not mention a council of gods creating the earth. However, the Bible does speak in plural voice when creating humans. And even though LDS extra biblical scriptures speak of it, it is still clear that God is supreme and all is done under His direction and for his glory, namely the glory of the Father. Therefore, God is the Creator in LDS theology, there can be no doubt.

[Darren10]

Here is my statement that you are responding to--"The reason that Christians say that Mormons are not Christian is that they follow a different God (or Gods) and that they follow a different gospel."

 

LDS seem taken back when Christians make these kinds of statements.  However LDS hold the exact same beliefs about the Christian God and Christian gospel--ie that Christians are following a false God and a false Gospel.  

 

You said, "It is true that we don't follow the Trinitarian God, we follow the true Biblical God."  But wouldn't it follow that if you follow the God of the Bible that your beliefs would line up with what is taught about God in the Bible?

NO! The LDS do NOT view Christians as following a false God. They say their conception of God is false. Nor do the LDS declare Christians as not Christans for having these false conceptions.

What is taught about God in the bible is that the Father is greater than Jesus, the Father *alone* is the "one true God", that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one (though no passage in the Hebrew or Greek obligate the reader to interpret this as a numeric one); and that Jesus has a Father and a God. These parts make trinitarianism quite difficult to defend.

[Darren10]

Below are a couple of verses that I feel support God creating all things rather than your position that God organized pre-existing matter.  You said that ". . .there's no explicit demand for ex material creation, the Bible does tend to lean in that direction."  Can you share those verses with me so I can take a look at them/

 

John 1:3  All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Acts 14:15  . . .God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

Hebrews 11:3  By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Revelation 4:11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” 

"Made" and "create" mean to shape or form, not "out of nothing".

[Darren10]

Can a Christian retain his beliefs in the Christian God and the Christian gospel and be exalted?

No. But to eternal end of non Mormons, or Mormons is not known,. Unique to LDs Christians (though it should not be) is progression and even repentance after death. Clearly to the LDS and all Christians, this mortal life is the time to repent lest an individual jeopardizes his/her salvation/exaltation.

[Darren10]

Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother?  Or would you say that these beliefs are from some other source other than that Bible?

The bible may be interpreted that way, yes though you will find no such passage in any LDS scripture. Mormons place no faith nor worship in that teaching for it is NOT canonized doctrine, only speculation. What is canonized is that the Father was in the beginning and none is known to precede Him.

[Vance]

Here is my statement that you are responding to--"The reason that Christians say that Mormons are not Christian is that they follow a different God (or Gods) and that they follow a different gospel."

 

LDS seem taken back when Christians make these kinds of statements.  However LDS hold the exact same beliefs about the Christian God and Christian gospel--ie that Christians are following a false God and a false Gospel. 

The difference is I still accept you into the "Christian" fold.

 

 

 

You said, "It is true that we don't follow the Trinitarian God, we follow the true Biblical God."  But wouldn't it follow that if you follow the God of the Bible that your beliefs would line up with what is taught about God in the Bible?

 

Yes, it would follow.  And it does follow.  Our beliefs about God DO line up with what is taught about God in the Bible.

 

Our beliefs just don't line up with your MIS-interpretations of what is taught about God in the Bible.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Vance

[Vance]

Below are a couple of verses that I feel support God creating all things rather than your position that God organized pre-existing matter.  You said that ". . .there's no explicit demand for ex material creation, the Bible does tend to lean in that direction."  Can you share those verses with me so I can take a look at them/

 

John 1:3  All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Acts 14:15  . . .God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

Hebrews 11:3  By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

Revelation 4:11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” 

I have read those very carefully and I don't see anything that requires "ex nihilo" creation.  And by the way "universe" is not a necessary translation of that Greek word.

 

Oh, and I highlighted a very important phrase that I am sure you skip right over, not pondering the implications.

[Vance]

Can a Christian retain his beliefs in the Christian God and the Christian gospel and be exalted?

If a Christian retains his beliefs in the trinitarian God, and the mis-interpreted gospel of Paul, why would he want to be exalted?

[Vance]

Does the Bible teach that God the Father was once a man who lived on another planet and became a God, who is married and has spiritual childen who were begotten and born to a Heavenly Mother? 

Is there anything in the Bible that precludes such beliefs?  (Not that you have got it right.)

[Vance]

Non denomination means that it is not affiliated with a denomination.

 

Can you show me from the Bible the unique beliefs you have about God?

Jesus taught,

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

 

Why don't you ponder the implications of that verse?