thatjimguy Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I know the church does not condone shunning. However, with the recent yearbook news, I wonder how much it take place in the larger LDS communities. How much does it happen? How many people get behind it? What tactics are generally used? Who usually spearheads such things and what is the motivation to do so?
Doctrine 612 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Iam not sure if this goes along with what you are talking about, but here it goes.I find that the church is very clickish and familyish in nature. I don't say that to be rude.As a leader I have spent years to break down those walls. So I think the shunning comes from that, if you are not doing what our group is doing then we want nothing to do with you, but on the flip side there are others who are willing to be friend you.That's my opinion on the matter of shunning, it is aways sad to exclude others. 2
Popular Post Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Popular Post Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) I know the church does not condone shunning. However, with the recent yearbook news, I wonder how much it take place in the larger LDS communities. How much does it happen? How many people get behind it? What tactics are generally used? Who usually spearheads such things and what is the motivation to do so? 1. All the time (every week); in smaller wards and branches, it may happen once or twice a month (or less; the standards tend to be looser in smaller units, because the bishop or branch president cannot lord his authority over anyone if there's no one left to lord it over); 2. Everyone; to not do so would be to risk Church discipline; 3. In my ward, the Bishopric member conducting announces the names of people who are to be shunned. They are escorted to the front of the chapel, whereupon the rest of the congregation is instructed to stand and face away from the members being shunned, formally turning their backs on them. Shunned members then are escorted from the building through a side entrance, and the rest of the members in the congregation reassume their normal positions; 4. The Bishop presides over the formal shunning ceremony; 5. The remaining membership must maintain its unbesmirched purity somehow. Edited May 31, 2014 by Kenngo1969 6
mnn727 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 However, with the recent yearbook news,I must have missed something, got a link?
thatjimguy Posted May 31, 2014 Author Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Here is a link http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/students-upset-digital-cover-ups-yearbook-23912946 Kengo, I am talking not of shunning by the church in any official stance, just an LDS society thing. People trying to oust people socially, gossip, slander and such. Edited May 31, 2014 by thatjimguy
Tacenda Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Are they still announcing ex'ed members over the pulpit? That certainly won't help as far as shunning. I know, negative Nelly here.
thatjimguy Posted May 31, 2014 Author Posted May 31, 2014 I'm talking outside of church bondaries folks and outside of official church procedures.
Thinking Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Kenngo, TJG made it very clear that he was talking about a cultural issue. Your response was insensitive and rude.
Garden Girl Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 3. In my ward, the Bishopric member conducting announces the names of people who are to be shunned. They are escorted to the front of the chapel, whereupon the rest of the congregation is instructed to stand and face away from the members being shunned, formally turning their backs on them. Shunned members then are escorted from the building through a side entrance, and the rest of the members in the congregation reassume their normal positions; 4. The Bishop presides over the formal shunning ceremony; You're being facetious, right? GG
rodheadlee Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Iam not sure if this goes along with what you are talking about, but here it goes.I find that the church is very clickish and familyish in nature. I don't say that to be rude.As a leader I have spent years to break down those walls. So I think the shunning comes from that, if you are not doing what our group is doing then we want nothing to do with you, but on the flip side there are others who are willing to be friend you.That's my opinion on the matter of shunning, it is aways sad to exclude others.I find this more true in Utah/Idaho than say Key West/Marathon, Florida. I have never been shunned but my brother was raised in Idaho, I was raised in California, and he was shunned as a youth by the neighborhood kids. It starts by the parents telling their kids not to hang out with so and so because they are a bad influence. Kids can be mean and it has had an effect on my brother's life to this day. If you live in a high Mormon % population area you can be picky who your friends are and who you allow into your circle. If you live in a low % area your circle of friends can be very small. I have zero Mormon friends IRL, If I shunned non Mormons I'd have zero friends. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Are they still announcing ex'ed members over the pulpit? That certainly won't help as far as shunning. I know, negative Nelly here.Yes, absolutely! How are we supposed to effectively shun them if we don't know who they are! Don't you care about our unbesmirched purity?! How calloused is that?!! 2
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 You're being facetious, right? GGAbsolutely not! I can't believe you think I would treat a matter of such gravity as associating with "The Great Unwashed" with such frivolity!
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Kenngo, TJG made it very clear that he was talking about a cultural issue. Your response was insensitive and rude.Well, if you're gonna make an omelet, you've gotta break a few eggs!
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I'm talking outside of church bondaries folks and outside of official church procedures.Not being inclined, e.g., to attend someone's Super Bowl party (and/or not having the time to do so if one were so inclined), and/or not being inclined or not having the time to associate a great deal with people in non-Church settings is, in my book, vastly different than "shunning" them. If I remember correctly, both my mom's visiting teaching route and my dad's home teaching route are composed entirely of less-active individuals and families. I don't see a lot of gossip, back-biting, fault-finding, looking down one's nose, circle-drawing, et cetera, among the members of my ward, and if I were to see such things, I wouldn't hesitate to relay President Uchtdorf's two-word sermon. 1
jwhitlock Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 1. All the time (every week); in smaller wards and branches, it may happen once or twice a month (or less; the standards tend to be looser in smaller units, because the bishop or branch president cannot lord his authority over anyone if there's no one left to lord it over); 2. Everyone; to not do so would be to risk Church discipline; 3. In my ward, the Bishopric member conducting announces the names of people who are to be shunned. They are escorted to the front of the chapel, whereupon the rest of the congregation is instructed to stand and face away from the members being shunned, formally turning their backs on them. Shunned members then are escorted from the building through a side entrance, and the rest of the members in the congregation reassume their normal positions; 4. The Bishop presides over the formal shunning ceremony; 5. The remaining membership must maintain its unbesmirched purity somehow. This was hilarious. We'll have to do a skit about this at our next ward activity. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) Here is a link http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/students-upset-digital-cover-ups-yearbook-23912946 Kengo, I am talking not of shunning by the church in any official stance, just an LDS society thing. People trying to oust people socially, gossip, slander and such.In addition to the measures I discuss above (in post #14), if I were to hear someone slander someone else, I wouldn't hesitate to point out to the slanderer that such a thing is not only un-Christian and morally reprehensible, it is also legally actionable. Edited May 31, 2014 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) I find this more true in Utah/Idaho than say Key West/Marathon, Florida. I have never been shunned but my brother was raised in Idaho, I was raised in California, and he was shunned as a youth by the neighborhood kids. It starts by the parents telling their kids not to hang out with so and so because they are a bad influence. Kids can be mean and it has had an effect on my brother's life to this day. If you live in a high Mormon % population area you can be picky who your friends are and who you allow into your circle. If you live in a low % area your circle of friends can be very small. I have zero Mormon friends IRL, If I shunned non Mormons I'd have zero friends.There would always be room in my circle for you, Brother Rod! P.S.: And I'm even the Vice President of the Local Chapter of Damn Utah Mormons! Edited May 31, 2014 by Kenngo1969
jwhitlock Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I know the church does not condone shunning. However, with the recent yearbook news, I wonder how much it take place in the larger LDS communities. How much does it happen? How many people get behind it? What tactics are generally used? Who usually spearheads such things and what is the motivation to do so? Since I live in an area where there is a large concentration of Amish and very conservative Mennonites who officially practice shunning, I understand a bit about what shunning really is. Cultural cliquishness or snobbery is not the same as religious shunning. Both of those happen to some extent in areas where diversity is not extensive (and some Mormons are, unfortunately, that way), but shunning as a religious practice (which is the context here) is simply not a part of Mormonism. 1
mormonnewb Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 I find this more true in Utah/Idaho than say Key West/Marathon, Florida. I have never been shunned but my brother was raised in Idaho, I was raised in California, and he was shunned as a youth by the neighborhood kids. It starts by the parents telling their kids not to hang out with so and so because they are a bad influence. Kids can be mean and it has had an effect on my brother's life to this day. If you live in a high Mormon % population area you can be picky who your friends are and who you allow into your circle. If you live in a low % area your circle of friends can be very small. I have zero Mormon friends IRL, If I shunned non Mormons I'd have zero friends.I was once given a friendly warning that my "poignant" testimonies on Open Mike Sundays might cause a few parents to not want their kids to play with mine. However, I've encountered just the opposite. If I openly admit to some grievous sin like, say, being an HBO subscriber, I'll invariably receive an e-mail on Momday from a fellow heathen reading, "We should hang out more often." That being said, I suspect that the response would be much different if the transgression were more serious. There is one brother who is rumored to be involved in adultery and illicit drug use and the glares that he receives from some members are almost tangible objects, although most members seem to largely ignore him.That being said, this dynamic isn't unique to us and I think we do better than most fundamentalist Christians because of our emphasis on reactivating lapsed members. For instance, one of my home teachees is inactive and I bet he is so sick of invites to ward basketball, Suns games, etc. that I'm pretty sure he wishes we would shun him. 2
The Nehor Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Most of the people who complain about shunning are jerks who are legitimately shunned. Jerks are generally shunned both outside and inside the LDS faith. Not sure why they thought the church would be different. It is still not a campaign to actively make the person friendless and alone. It is just that people desire to be happy and it is hard to be happy with jerks around.
jwhitlock Posted May 31, 2014 Posted May 31, 2014 Most of the people who complain about shunning are jerks who are legitimately shunned. Jerks are generally shunned both outside and inside the LDS faith. Not sure why they thought the church would be different. It is still not a campaign to actively make the person friendless and alone. It is just that people desire to be happy and it is hard to be happy with jerks around. That's really unfortunate, because I believe jerkiness can be controlled by professional help or medication. What a minute - you're not talking about Tourette's, are you? 1
thatjimguy Posted May 31, 2014 Author Posted May 31, 2014 Since I live in an area where there is a large concentration of Amish and very conservative Mennonites who officially practice shunning, I understand a bit about what shunning really is. Cultural cliquishness or snobbery is not the same as religious shunning. Both of those happen to some extent in areas where diversity is not extensive (and some Mormons are, unfortunately, that way), but shunning as a religious practice (which is the context here) is simply not a part of Mormonism. No it isn't the same. That is why I keep mentioning I am asking about LDS society in the more saturated LDS areas and not about the religion.
katherine the great Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 When did sleeves become mandatory for LDS girls? When I joined the church in California (in a VERY conservative ward), only spaghetti straps were frowned on, not sleeveless or wide strapped blouses or dresses. Of course, after a temple endowment, at least cap sleeves are mandatory, but we did not consider bare arms in general immodest at all for non temple endowed young women.
Anijen Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 For a very long time my family were the only members in their school. I allowed each of them to play with anyone they wanted. I did remind them that they were being observed and perhaps through their friendship and interaction they might one day listen to the missionaries then who knows what can happen. I have never felt them being shunned or felt that they did the shunning. My youngest sons nickname at school was "Mormon" all of my children I can proudly say have been and are good examples. I have never felt shunned at church. 2
Grudunza Posted June 1, 2014 Posted June 1, 2014 I don't see that article being about shunning at all... more about modesty vs. personal expression, etc.But anyway, in 23+ years I don't know of any real targeted shunning... I'm sure it happens on a personal level, but that's not unique to our church. Cultural cliqueish behavior and looking down on others because of various perceived social doctrine or status type of things... sure, I've experienced that. But not prevalent and not unique to Mormons, by any means.
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