Are The Muslims Our Kissing Cousins?

[mormonnewb]

During a Gospel Principle (or is Gospel Doctrine?) ... anyway, during the "Baby Mormon" Sunday School session, a recent convert asked this question, "What religion is most similar to ours?"  I almost bit a hole in my bottom lip keeping my mouth shut because I knew that my answer might be seen as "negative" and, like everyone else, I'm trying to help them nurture their newfound faith.  However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

 

Here are the similarities as I see them (and by the way, I'm really hoping that Ellen will correct the numerous factual and logical errors in my thinking):

 

1)  Both religions were founded by prophets who dictated scripture (Quran-D&C) through revelation.

 

2)  Both religions accept the truth of the Bible (OT & NT) but believe that it is incomplete and has been misinterpreted/translated.

 

3)  Early adherents of both religions were persecuted and eventually sought sanctuary by migrating to their own versions of Zion.

 

4)  Both religions impose specific dietary restrictions and issue prescribed clothing.

 

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

 

6)  Both religions posit different degrees of heaven in which people will reside according to their good works, and with the company of equally righteous family members.

 

Now, I do understand that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the two religions; two of the biggest being that Muslims don't accept the resurrection and atonement of Christ and Muhammed was the last of the Islamic prophets, while we have a continuing line of prophets.

 

However, on a practical and lived basis, I think we are most similar to our Muslim brothers and sisters.  And while I recognize that people have used this comparison in the past to denigrate one (or both) groups, I see no shame in being compared to another group of devout religious believers who have love and service at the center of their theology.

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

[JLHPROF]

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

 

I would agree that there are definite similarities to Islam, but I would HOPE that we are most similar to Early Christianity with smatterings of Ancient Judaism mixed in...but with a very American perspective.

[mormonnewb]

I would agree that there are definite similarities to Islam, but I would HOPE that we are most similar to Early Christianity with smatterings of Ancient Judaism mixed in...but with a very American perspective.

 

So would you say that we are closest to one of the anabaptist groups, like the Amish, or maybe even the Catholics?

[thesometimesaint]

During a Gospel Principle (or is Gospel Doctrine?) ... anyway, during the "Baby Mormon" Sunday School session, a recent convert asked this question, "What religion is most similar to ours?"  I almost bit a hole in my bottom lip keeping my mouth shut because I knew that my answer might be seen as "negative" and, like everyone else, I'm trying to help them nurture their newfound faith.  However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

 

Here are the similarities as I see them (and by the way, I'm really hoping that Ellen will correct the numerous factual and logical errors in my thinking):

 

1)  Both religions were founded by prophets who dictated scripture (Quran-D&C) through revelation.

 

2)  Both religions accept the truth of the Bible (OT & NT) but believe that it is incomplete and has been misinterpreted/translated.

 

3)  Early adherents of both religions were persecuted and eventually sought sanctuary by migrating to their own versions of Zion.

 

4)  Both religions impose specific dietary restrictions and issue prescribed clothing.

 

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

 

6)  Both religions posit different degrees of heaven in which people will reside according to their good works, and with the company of equally righteous family members.

 

Now, I do understand that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the two religions; two of the biggest being that Muslims don't accept the resurrection and atonement of Christ and Muhammed was the last of the Islamic prophets, while we have a continuing line of prophets.

 

However, on a practical and lived basis, I think we are most similar to our Muslim brothers and sisters.  And while I recognize that people have used this comparison in the past to denigrate one (or both) groups, I see no shame in being compared to another group of devout religious believers who have love and service at the center of their theology.

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

 

It is those differences that make all the difference. We're kinda odd ducks when it comes to religion. Of all the Restorationist Sects we're by far the biggest and most well known, even if sometimes/often other Christian Sects/individuals get it wrong on what we believe.

 

I agree with JLHPROF as that is my hope too.

[mormonnewb]

It is those differences that make all the difference. We're kinda odd ducks when it comes to religion. Of all the Restorationist Sects we're by far the biggest and most well known, even if sometimes/often other Christian Sects/individuals get it wrong on what we believe.

 

I agree with JLHPROF as that is my hope too.

 

I truly understand that we believe that we are the answer the spiritual equivalent of "2+2=?"

 

We are 4.  I got that.  My question is, who do you think is 3 or 5?  Or is that the others have answers that are so ridiculous (i.e., "A" or "@") that we can't even do the math to see who comes closest to us?

[JLHPROF]

So would you say that we are closest to one of the anabaptist groups, like the Amish, or maybe even the Catholics?

 

I think we were more similar to the anabaptists (minus the hatred of technology) back in the day.  And with our similarities to early Christianity and our love of rite we of course have Catholic similarities.

 

There are some protestant sects that have similarities, but overall I find that we started out more similar to anabaptists/catholics and are moving towards the evangelical/baptists style...so right now we're somewhere in transition - Lutheran maybe? 

[thesometimesaint]

I truly understand that we believe that we are the answer the spiritual equivalent of "2+2=?"

 

We are 4.  I got that.  My question is, who do you think is 3 or 5?  Or is that the others have answers that are so ridiculous (i.e., "A" or "@") that we can't even do the math to see who comes closest to us?

 

There is the independent spiritual variable of the value we place in the equation which would be stated better mathematically as 2x + 2y = ?

[strappinglad]

Well, in my area we do get along reasonably well with many colonies of Hutterites which are linked to the Anabaptists. The Amish, Hutterites and Mennonites do take the " all things in common " concept way more seriously than we do.

Edited February 20, 2014 by strappinglad

[Storm Rider]

Although I recognize a great deal of similarity between Islam and the LDS Church, the atonement of Jesus is just too great a gulf to get over.  I do find the greatest similarity between Catholicism and the restored gospel. 

[birdgirl]

Also polygamy in this life (sometimes) and in the next.

[mormonnewb]

Although I recognize a great deal of similarity between Islam and the LDS Church, the atonement of Jesus is just too great a gulf to get over. I do find the greatest similarity between Catholicism and the restored gospel.

.

Agreed that the atonement is a HUGE difference, particularly as it is understood by the Protestants. It changes the entire nature of salvation. However, I'm not sure how much efficacy the atonement has under our paradigm of "all you can do." In that sense, the atonement isn't the basis of salvation but rather more like a cushion or grace period. I would imagine that the Islamic paradigm of God's judgment probably allows for some form of grace.

That being said, I agree, the Catholic parallels are glaring.

Edited February 21, 2014 by mormonnewb

[The Nehor]

No, I am going to go with the Moonies.

[Duncan]

Rosicrucianism all the way!

[tsubotsubo]

I have felt the same. However, I've not really looked at it from a doctrinal perspective, but I felt culturally, there are a lot of similarities between the muslims I know and the mormons I know. By this I mean that I know a lot of people that are religious, but most of them still swear, drink alcohol, aren't against extra-marital sex, etc. Also there's generally lots of children in each family, and extended families are often extremely close, and this is something I see in our church too. I feel a lot of other religions are more relaxed and liberal, whilst most muslims I know follow their religions very closely in a similar way to how most active LDS do, to the point that a lot of the general public think we/they are weird.

 

This is just based on my personal experiences. I can't speak for the entire muslim or mormon population. But if I were asked what religion is most similar to mormonism, I would say Islam too, since I feel there are a lot of similarities in the way we follow our religions.

Edited February 21, 2014 by tsubotsubo

[Calm]

.

. However, I'm not sure how much efficacy the atonement has under our paradigm of "all you can do." In that sense, the atonement isn't the basis of salvation but rather more like a cushion or grace period. .

I have never gotten that impression from the Church's teaching. I can't even imagine how it could be structured that way.

[Tacenda]

I have never gotten that impression from the Church's teaching. I can't even imagine how it could be structured that way.

I think he said it exactly as has been taught. We do all we can and the Lord will take care of the rest, somewhat like Pres. Packer's talk...pay off the debt for us in the end, or something like that.

[Calm]

Since the debt can never be paid how is that a cushion or grace period?

[mormonnewb]

I think he said it exactly as has been taught. We do all we can and the Lord will take care of the rest, somewhat like Pres. Packer's talk...pay off the debt for us in the end, or something like that.

The challenge becomes in measuring "all we can do." None of us reach 100% and that's what the atonement is for. However, unlike the Protestants, I don't think that we believe the atonement will make up ANY gap. For instance, if we've lived lives of total debauchery but accept the Gospel on our death beds, I don't think that gets us in the Celestial Kingdom (even assuming that someone performs the ordinances for us posthumously). Or does it? If not, then our concept of the atonement is limited. It makes up the gap; provided that the chasm isn't TOO large.

I'm not saying that this is wrong or anything. I'm simply suggesting that it probably makes us more like Islam than Protestantism.

[EllenMaksoud]

During a Gospel Principle (or is Gospel Doctrine?) ... anyway, during the "Baby Mormon" Sunday School session, a recent convert asked this question, "What religion is most similar to ours?"  I almost bit a hole in my bottom lip keeping my mouth shut because I knew that my answer might be seen as "negative" and, like everyone else, I'm trying to help them nurture their newfound faith.  However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

 

Here are the similarities as I see them (and by the way, I'm really hoping that Ellen will correct the numerous factual and logical errors in my thinking):

 

1)  Both religions were founded by prophets who dictated scripture (Quran-D&C) through revelation.

 

2)  Both religions accept the truth of the Bible (OT & NT) but believe that it is incomplete and has been misinterpreted/translated.

 

3)  Early adherents of both religions were persecuted and eventually sought sanctuary by migrating to their own versions of Zion.

 

4)  Both religions impose specific dietary restrictions and issue prescribed clothing.

 

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

 

6)  Both religions posit different degrees of heaven in which people will reside according to their good works, and with the company of equally righteous family members.

 

Now, I do understand that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the two religions; two of the biggest being that Muslims don't accept the resurrection and atonement of Christ and Muhammed was the last of the Islamic prophets, while we have a continuing line of prophets.

 

However, on a practical and lived basis, I think we are most similar to our Muslim brothers and sisters.  And while I recognize that people have used this comparison in the past to denigrate one (or both) groups, I see no shame in being compared to another group of devout religious believers who have love and service at the center of their theology.

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

First, most Americans are profoundly ignorant of other cultures and religions. They actually do not know that much about their own beliefs and are happy to be that way. Coming out of Islam myself, I do not have bad things to say about it. I just wanted Jesus the Christ to be treated right. In my opinion most Muslims do not properly accnowlege him, with perhaps the exception of the Sufi who I have just started to study.

 

For me, Mormons stand alone in their knowlege of the Bom, however most do not know the Bible very well.

 

A product of being an outcast is there is lots of time to contemplate, pray and study. Sometimes even harshness and pain breeds thankfulness and obedience to Heavenly Father.

 

I agree with many of the same things you said in your opening statement. I must leave now, but will humbly give you my opinion of your statement in a little while. I can not leave this and come back because this site willl time out.

[AndyDnom]

both founding prophets took wives under the age of 18. both religions had adherents commit mass murder on september 11th, though 100+ years apart.

 

This is the kind of thing that will get you banned from a thread or board.  Knock it off.

[EllenMaksoud]

During a Gospel Principle (or is Gospel Doctrine?) ... anyway, during the "Baby Mormon" Sunday School session, a recent convert asked this question, "What religion is most similar to ours?"  I almost bit a hole in my bottom lip keeping my mouth shut because I knew that my answer might be seen as "negative" and, like everyone else, I'm trying to help them nurture their newfound faith.  However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

 

Here are the similarities as I see them (and by the way, I'm really hoping that Ellen will correct the numerous factual and logical errors in my thinking):

 

1)  Both religions were founded by prophets who dictated scripture (Quran-D&C) through revelation.

 

2)  Both religions accept the truth of the Bible (OT & NT) but believe that it is incomplete and has been misinterpreted/translated.

 

3)  Early adherents of both religions were persecuted and eventually sought sanctuary by migrating to their own versions of Zion.

 

4)  Both religions impose specific dietary restrictions and issue prescribed clothing.

 

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

 

6)  Both religions posit different degrees of heaven in which people will reside according to their good works, and with the company of equally righteous family members.

 

Now, I do understand that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between the two religions; two of the biggest being that Muslims don't accept the resurrection and atonement of Christ and Muhammed was the last of the Islamic prophets, while we have a continuing line of prophets.

 

However, on a practical and lived basis, I think we are most similar to our Muslim brothers and sisters.  And while I recognize that people have used this comparison in the past to denigrate one (or both) groups, I see no shame in being compared to another group of devout religious believers who have love and service at the center of their theology.

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

Here is the conclusion of my comments about this thread. To be sure, I am not expert on Islam, though I know how those around me lived it. Mashallah, thank you for your kind statement to me.

1. Yes, I believe that Muhammad (Peace be unto him) was a prophet. It was because of his example that I was willing to listen to Joseph Smith.
2. Both religions do accept the truth of the Bible (The Book as they call it), but they do not accept the New Testament. Their acceptance of Jesus the Christ is in my mind irrational and not complete. I think a lot was lost in Islam when the Ottomans spread Islam, and somehow came to the conclusion that it was a good idea to cut off Christians and Jews from Jerusalem. That triggered the Crusades, and it was a disaster for Islam. Though the Moors would occupy Southern Spain until around 1200 AD. In the end, Islam self-destructed owing to internal strife.
3. Accepted.
4. Accepted with the following caveats. I think a lot of the Islamic clothing, especially for women originated due to the harsh climactic conditions, and later became religious dogma. Muslim men blame women for their own lust, and even in Western culture a certain amount of that still goes on. I remember hearing boys as I grew up saying “she dresses that way because she wants it”.
5. Accepted.
6. Accepted.

With Modern expressions of Islam, I am sad because everywhere we look Muslims are killing each other. I have read some scholars who say that Colonialism destroyed Middle Eastern culture, though that is not the case today and Muslims still seem bent on blaming others for their issues.

In the OT, in Genesis 16 there is a discussion of Hagar and how her descendants seem to be cursed even to this day. This makes me really sad, and I would like to argue with God about it, though I know that he would win. We cannot know God, though perhaps someday we will be his friends. I would be content to scrub toilets in his house.

The expression of modern Islam is deeply flawed, though we should not forget that it was Muhammad that wrote the Constitution of Medina, where for the first time in recorded human history women’s rights were documented.

[mormonnewb]

I have felt the same. However, I've not really looked at it from a doctrinal perspective, but I felt culturally, there are a lot of similarities between the muslims I know and the mormons I know. By this I mean that I know a lot of people that are religious, but most of them still swear, drink alcohol, aren't against extra-marital sex, etc. Also there's generally lots of children in each family, and extended families are often extremely close, and this is something I see in our church too. I feel a lot of other religions are more relaxed and liberal, whilst most muslims I know follow their religions very closely in a similar way to how most active LDS do, to the point that a lot of the general public think we/they are weird.

 

This is just based on my personal experiences. I can't speak for the entire muslim or mormon population. But if I were asked what religion is most similar to mormonism, I would say Islam too, since I feel there are a lot of similarities in the way we follow our religions.

To me, this is the crux of our similarity -- devout religious observance. For example, while all Christian sects acknowledge that premarital sex is sin, we are one of the few who earnestly try to avoid it. At my last Protestant church, it was not unusual to have couples living together or unmarried women having babies. This wasn't something we celebrated but simply accepted with a shrug as if to, "What are you going to do?" Now, don't get me wrong, There are many Protestant churches that are just as serious about chastity as we are. In fact, if you read the honor codes from, say, Oral Roberts U or Regent College, they will read much like BYU's honor code. However, in Protestant culture, these people are on the fringes of American Christianity, while in Mormon culture, BYU's standards are not only the norm, but the ideal.

From an outsider viewpoint, the same is true for Muslims. For example, I'd never even think to offer pork to a Muslim; nor would I offer coffee to a Mormon. However, I'd feel comfortable offering pretty much ANYTHING to a Protestant. I feel similarly about my Catholic and Jewish friends. Unless I know that they are particularly observant, It wouldn't even occur to me to refrain from offering meat to a Catholic on a Friday (do they even still do that?) or a BLT to a Jew.

That being said, there are a few other ultra-devout Christian sects but I'm not sure that any of them has a similar founding narrative.

[Calm]

A person living a life of debauchery who then repents not only on his deathbed but then follows it up by fulfilling that repentance totally in the next life, accepting Christ's Atonement fully and completely may very well enter the Celestial Kingdom. Our doctrine allows for that.

[volgadon]

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

 

 

Out of all of the specious parallels, this one by far is the worst. Not only do Jesus and Gabriel not even remotely play the same role in Islam as they do in most forms of Christianity, they aren't at all part of the godhead. The belief in associates is a a major anathema in Islam. yes, Islam acknowledges the existence and significacne of separate personages, they just happen to be more than three, and only one is actually God. The structure of the LDS godhead differs from the classic Christian Trinity primarily in the matter of humoousis. This far more than in function.

[CV75]

However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

 

***

 

Of course, there is no right answer here, so I'm curious as to which religion you think we are closest to?

RE: Islam:

From a 1972 Ensign: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/03/islam-and-mormonism-a-comparison?lang=eng

 

...and 2000: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng

 

...and 2002: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/03/a-life-among-muslims?lang=eng

 

RE: Which other religion I think we LDS are closest to: Mark 3: 14 and John 15:16-27, "And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth… Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain… These things I command you, that ye love one another… But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.”