Are The Muslims Our Kissing Cousins?

[MiserereNobis]

As for the Orthodox Christians, do you mean those of the Eastern (Greek) Orthodox Church? I know almost nothing of their traditions (not even sure about the proper name for them). In what ways are they similar to us?

 

The Greek Orthodox Church is one of many Eastern Orthodox Churches.  Orthodox Christians and Catholics are incredibly similar and are both the expressions of traditional Christianity.  The differences between the two are mainly ecclesiastical in nature (the biggest being that the Orthodox do not accept the primacy of the Pope, but instead rank him equal with the other patriarchs).  There are also some theological differences.  Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism split ways in 1054 (in what has been known as The Great Schism).  Both Catholics and Orthodox accept the validity of the other's Sacraments and accept that bishops in both the East and the West have valid Apostolic Succession.

 

There are also Eastern Catholic Churches, which are nearly identical to Eastern Orthodox Churches except that they accept the primacy of the Pope.

 

The similarities between Orthodoxy and Mormonism are going to be nearly identical to those between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, except that there is no one head, like the Pope or the President.

[Coreyb]

Fair enough, but I think the Jewish comparison with Mormonism is a non-starter for at least two reasons:

(1). The Great Commission of Christianity is evangelism. The Muslims share this (at some times, even to the extreme of spreading the faith through the sword). On the other hand, Jews don't prosthelize.

(2). While Muslims don't recognize the divinity of Christ, they do at least recognize him as a prophet. Jesus has NO significance for Jews.

As for the Orthodox Christians, do you mean those of the Eastern (Greek) Orthodox Church? I know almost nothing of their traditions (not even sure about the proper name for them). In what ways are they similar to us?

This is not necessarily true for many modern Jews. Many believe him to be a prophet, some even a great prophet. Orthodox Jews do reject the idea that he is God, or Gods son, just like Muslims.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Yet there have been posts on this very board by active faithful Mormons discussing that Jesus was somehow physically procreated by God and Mary.  I know this is not *official* Mormon doctrine, but I'd say it would be hard to deny that there is a current among Mormons to believe that God, with his physical body, used physical means to procreate his son, Christ.

 

Catholics most strenously object to this.

Just as in any other faith, who state opinion has fact, one poster here inferred this idea from "Mormon Doctrine" (the book) but this only pointed out that Jesus is the only begotten in the flesh of God. Few take the time to note two things, the book does not enjoy the endorsement of the book by Elder McConkie or as doctrine, while not pointing out that Elder McConkie stated under the heading "Virgin Birth" that "Mary was a virgin, which goes on to say, that any Church we teaches otherwise is, "totally apostate and false". I do not know why, too many lean toward the extreme, but sadly they do. Man knows how to bring about birth without intercourse, or do you believe God knows less than we do? This is not Church, and posters don't have Bishop to stop such outrageous comment...here posters often tell the truth, but so love to speculate. Jesus as taught by the Bible was conceived this is true, but by the "power of the Holy Ghost". So our views on this topic is in line with most Christian groups and most certainly in line with the Bible and all Standard Works. If Catholics disagree to the statement, that Mary was "overshadowed by the most highest and conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost", or "Holy Spirit" are in error; not we. In this respect with others, listed we are more closely compared with the "Catholic Church" and many other "Christian sects.

If my brothers or sisters talk out of school, speaking of intercourse between Elohiem and his daughter, I can only apologize for them, and pray they repent. We are all flawed as any other faith, but hopefully aspire to better things.

[emarkp]

First, most Americans are profoundly ignorant of other cultures and religions.

Back off the America-hate there. Most people are profoundly ignorant of other cultures and religions, and in fact of their own religion.

It's remarkably rare for any individual to seriously consider what they believe and why.

[EllenMaksoud]

Back off the America-hate there. Most people are profoundly ignorant of other cultures and religions, and in fact of their own religion.

It's remarkably rare for any individual to seriously consider what they believe and why.

I am an American, and a Veteran of the Vietnam Era. If I want to be rightfully critical of our citizens then you can not control that.

[emarkp]

During a Gospel Principle (or is Gospel Doctrine?) ... anyway, during the "Baby Mormon" Sunday School session, a recent convert asked this question, "What religion is most similar to ours?"  I almost bit a hole in my bottom lip keeping my mouth shut because I knew that my answer might be seen as "negative" and, like everyone else, I'm trying to help them nurture their newfound faith.  However, I don't think that my answer is negative at all; and it is ISLAM.

I think that's a pretty poor answer. I would have said "pre-Apostasy Christianity" or if you look outside Christianity I'd look to Judaism before Islam. Islam has no use for temples, for instance.

Furthermore, as I understand it, Mohammad's earlier writings take precedence over his later ones, which makes it pretty hard for modern Islam to moderate (and may lead to its extinction).

[emarkp]

I am an American, and a Veteran of the Vietnam Era. If I want to be rightfully critical of our citizens then you can not control that.

 

I certainly can't control you (nor do I want to).  But I'll call BS when I see it.  Status as a Veteran should not and does not give anyone a pass on making bad generalizations.

[EllenMaksoud]

I certainly can't control you (nor do I want to).  But I'll call BS when I see it.  Status as a Veteran should not and does not give anyone a pass on making bad generalizations.

If you look at my original post, there were no generalizations. Otherwise we will agree to disagree.

[volgadon]

Fair enough, but I think the Jewish comparison with Mormonism is a non-starter for at least two reasons:

(1). The Great Commission of Christianity is evangelism. The Muslims share this (at some times, even to the extreme of spreading the faith through the sword). On the other hand, Jews don't prosthelize.

(2). While Muslims don't recognize the divinity of Christ, they do at least recognize him as a prophet. Jesus has NO significance for Jews.

As for the Orthodox Christians, do you mean those of the Eastern (Greek) Orthodox Church? I know almost nothing of their traditions (not even sure about the proper name for them). In what ways are they similar to us?

 

Well, if that is so, then I can shoot your analogy with Islam dead, dead, dead.

Muslims fervently reject the corporality of God, which is one of the central tenets of Mormonism.

 

Muslims also placed a seal on prophets, which goes against the very core of our church's claims.

 

Muslims consider plurality of gods an extreme heresy, yet it is a big part of our teachings.

 

 

Also, it would be more correct to state that Jews currently don't proseletyse much. Historically, however, they were ardent evangelists. This was one of the reasons for their visibility in the Helleno-Roman world. Another prominent example was the conversion of the Khazar king and much of his kingdom.

 

Also, what do you make of an infant church sending out two prominent missionaries to Palestine to bless it for the return of the Jews?

No analogy is going to be perfect. If you are going to reject any analogy with religions other than Islam for such details, yet exempt Islam, then you are not arguing honestly, but are involved in special-pleading.

[Storm Rider]

We short change the EV when we say that they accept Christ as their Saviour and do nothing. They know that they are compelled to do something once they've gone through the transformation. I just wonder if that change actually can happen overnight and so many LDS never know what it feels like. I have heard several testify that Jesus is in their lives. He literally takes over. Maybe some on here experience it too. But we LDS, really need to quit saying EV's think they don't have to do anything, the ones that have truly done as they say, never say they don't do anything. They only usually say it's a free gift and we need the faith that it is free, and then they are so indebted for the gift they let Jesus take the wheel, so to speak, as per the Carrie Underwood song. And then they do.....

 

Tacenda, I grew up in the south.  I was one of the very few that were not part of an EV congregation; Southern Baptist being the largest to Assemblies of God. The Catholics were even more scarce than LDS.  Those days, experiences, are not forgotten.  Once saved always saved; walk down the aisle and accept Christ and boom, all is well.  That free, saving grace was achieved by an event.

 

There were few sermons that taught their members that once having accepted Christ there was work to do.  God forbid, if they did they they might have to stop attacking the Mormons and Catholics for their teachings on works.  

 

My experience makes me very distrustful of Evangelicals. They lips can say kind words, but I focus completely on their actions.  I don't have the time or the inclination to put up with their sanctimonious, self-righteous condemnation of my beliefs and things I hold sacred.  I don't mind their shenanigans around temple square or at Conference time; those are just a nuisance that LDS must put up with by living in a free country.   They may worship what and how they wish and I demand the same privilege for me and mine.  Frankly, they are generally organizations that I don't have a lot of use for in my life and I would prefer to stay as far away from them as possible. 

[emarkp]

If you look at my original post, there were no generalizations. Otherwise we will agree to disagree.

"most Americans are profoundly ignorant of other cultures and religions" is not a generalization? You need to read what you write more carefully.

(To others, I apologize for the hijack. I won't derail the thread further with this.)

[emarkp]

5)  Both religions deny the Holy Trinity, although both religions acknowledge the existence and significance of three separate personages -- God, Jesus and the Holy Spirt (the archangel Gabriel for Muslims).

I've never heard this. My understanding was that Jesus is acknowledged as a prophet, but no more divine than any other prophet.

[Raingirl]

I am an American, and a Veteran of the Vietnam Era. If I want to be rightfully critical of our citizens then you can not control that.

Being an American and a veteran gives you a "right" to make gross and judgmental generalizations about others? Yes,you do live in a country that allows free speech, which is a good thing, as others can then point out how their view differs from yours.

You might want to hold yourself to your own standards. Your own limited experience in both Islam and Mormonism shows through on a regular basis, not to mention other cultures and faiths.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda, I grew up in the south. I was one of the very few that were not part of an EV congregation; Southern Baptist being the largest to Assemblies of God. The Catholics were even more scarce than LDS. Those days, experiences, are not forgotten. Once saved always saved; walk down the aisle and accept Christ and boom, all is well. That free, saving grace was achieved by an event.

There were few sermons that taught their members that once having accepted Christ there was work to do. God forbid, if they did they they might have to stop attacking the Mormons and Catholics for their teachings on works.

My experience makes me very distrustful of Evangelicals. They lips can say kind words, but I focus completely on their actions. I don't have the time or the inclination to put up with their sanctimonious, self-righteous condemnation of my beliefs and things I hold sacred. I don't mind their shenanigans around temple square or at Conference time; those are just a nuisance that LDS must put up with by living in a free country. They may worship what and how they wish and I demand the same privilege for me and mine. Frankly, they are generally organizations that I don't have a lot of use for in my life and I would prefer to stay as far away from them as possible.

My husband served a mission in the south and that was his take also. Maybe I've been listening, not in person mind you, to just plain ol' non LDS Christians with no specific denomination. Which is probably why I thought they were Evangelicals.

[EllenMaksoud]

Being an American and a veteran gives you a "right" to make gross and judgmental generalizations about others? Yes,you do live in a country that allows free speech, which is a good thing, as others can then point out how their view differs from yours.

You might want to hold yourself to your own standards. Your own limited experience in both Islam and Mormonism shows through on a regular basis, not to mention other cultures and faiths.

And you would know how limited my experience is, how? That you and others would be offended by my opinion, is not surprising.  That we would show up in Iraq with complete disregard for the culture and beliefs of the population is not acceptable. And actually, Iraq was about the oil. Lots of Americans faced peril there without need. Of course Islamic cultures are just as ignorant of our ways. That humans would not study and have respect for each others cultures is a fatal flaw.

[thesometimesaint]

Yet there have been posts on this very board by active faithful Mormons discussing that Jesus was somehow physically procreated by God and Mary.  I know this is not *official* Mormon doctrine, but I'd say it would be hard to deny that there is a current among Mormons to believe that God, with his physical body, used physical means to procreate his son, Christ.

 

Catholics most strenously object to this.

 

I am always amazed and amused by what some Saints believe. But in our religion we are free to believe anything we want as long as we don't publicly proclaim it is doctrine.

 

While we don't know the actual process used whatever it was it was physical.

[strappinglad]

When it is said that most Americans are uninformed about other cultures and religions it may be a generalization but it is a demonstrably true one. That said, it is also true of most other nations in the world. Most folks are centered on their own culture and religion , not others. Sure there are a percentage, say 20% , that have outside knowledge and appreciation for other cultures but for the most part is it superficial at best.

Case it point, I watched a TV show where there were street interviews of HARVARD professors about the Canadian culture, one that is quite close in type and physical proximity. The responses were as hilarious as they were informative about just how much educate folks were ignorant of even their closest neighbors.

When a large percentage of Americans can name the Kardasians but not the Vice President it tells you where their attention is focused, and it ain't on the intricacies of Thai culture.

Edited February 23, 2014 by strappinglad