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Celebrations Of Learned Men: Nibley, Schoolmen, And The Denial Of Revelation


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Posted

http://mormonmatters.org/2013/08/29/188-189-hugh-nibley-part-3-prophet-of-zion/

I posted part 1 & 2 in another thread. Just go to the episodes list and you'll see them. This is the 3rd installment. Wow, can I just say how interesting this man is. And as one of the men mention we need more "out there" members. They also mention how Hugh Nibley and Eugene England were much like prophets. And speak so effectively.

Posted (edited)

Thanks volgadon, brilliant discussion of a difficult topic.

 

For all my philosophical quotes and protestations against confusion I agree completely that direct experience of the divine trumps everything else.

 

For me philosophy is a tool to clarify the confusions that language inserts into the discussion of direct experience.  Somehow when we have an experience, in order to share it we put it into language and that is when the trouble starts.

 

My problem with most scholarship, frankly, is that every scholar brings with him the baggage of what he has been taught in school- standards of evidence, "correct" terminology, what constitutes "scholarly" behavior, what justifies true beliefs in one's particular field, etc.  The student then lives up to these expectations, or essentially, is drummed out of the corps.  Each discipline is just that - a "discipline" a path with it's own presumptions about truth or falsity, historical standards what counts as what, etc.

 

To me the perfect philosopher is the perfect healer-  one who puts himself out of business by healing all the sick people in the village, but for me also I think that scholarly debate TENDS to produce more "sick people".

 

"Science is incompatible with religion!"  "No it's not!" and what follows is more a discussion of words than anything else.  If the ideas were correctly communicated in the first place, there would be no need for argument.  It is the philosopher's role to take the two opposing groups and show that they are (or are not) discussing the same thing and that the problem indeed is "just words".

 

So yes, Zarathustra, the guy in a loincloth sitting under the tree ultimately triumphs over the philosophers and scholars, but they too have their role.  You can't have one without the other.

 

Direct experience is always better than someone's - anyone's- description of it, for the simple reason that it is unmediated by linguistic problems.  Scholars describe others experiences, and try to put them into a "rational" framework while the prophets are HAVING the experiences and trying just as hard to put them into words, for others to misinterpret.

 

This language stuff is hard, but it's all we've got!  It takes everyone- we call that "dialogue" - to make it work.

Edited by mfbukowski
Posted

The good news and the bad news- you can pick which is which  ;)

 

What it means to be "learned" means that we have memorized, and live, and accept as true, all the cultural presumptions of our "discipline".  One is a High Priest within that discipline.

 

That's the best system we've got so far.

Posted

Personal experience may be better than hearing of others experience, but it still involves an internal dialogue in order to come to grips with the experience. With JS , his personal experience was considered over several years and ' fleshed out' as he came to understand more clearly.

People who experience an NDE often take years to fully reveal all the details. Those who witness a car accident will review the scene in their minds and see more or different details over time. Much of this internal dialogue involves language and hence , as mfb states , confusion can arise.

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