Johnnie Cake Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I would think that the church would be jumping for joy at the wonderful opportunity this legal action has brought them. The folks at the CAB have got to be doing LDS versions of victory touch down dances at having this opportunity to defend LDS truth claims in such a high profile situation. What a wonderful opportunity for the Prophet to declare once and for all, in a high profile, media filled court of law exactly what their position are in each of these 7 charges. This could go down in history as President Monson's Abinidi moment. Think of the generation's of young Mormon's being taught of this great moment in church history. How President Monson confounded the so called learned. Surely, this is God's work. How naïve Tom Phillips was...to think he could embarrass the church. He has played right into the hands of the church. If only the church could have seen this coming...they might have not spent so much money on that "Mormon's are Just like You" ad campaign in London last year. Here Mr. Phillips has given them all the free media attention and an opportunity to teach the world church doctrine at the same time. Yup, You've blown it Mr Phillips. Nice try trying to make the church look foolish and silly...but you've wasted your money, its all for naught...I see this as nothing more than a win win situation for the church Edited February 6, 2014 by Johnnie Cake 2
BlueDreams Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I would think that the church would be jumping for joy at the wonderful opportunity this legal action has brought them. The folks at the CAB have got to be doing LDS versions of victory touch down dances at having this opportunity to defend LDS truth claims in such a high profile situation. What a wonderful opportunity for the Prophet to declare once and for all, in a high profile, media filled court of law exactly what their position are in each of these 7 charges. This could go down in history as President Monson's Abinidi moment. Think of the generation's of young Mormon's being taught of this great moment in church history. How President Monson confounded the so called learned. Surely, this is God's work. How naïve Tom Phillips was...to think he could embarrass the church. He has played right into the hands of the church. I'm not 100% sure if you're serious or sarcastic, but I'm not seeing why the church would want to. a) it's costly and a waste of time, b ) a number of the charges are already holey ( esp. the 6k yrs ones) and stupid, c) this allows for just about as much (if not more) continuation of various negative mormon stereotypes d) who the heck would want the prophet to end up like abinadi? e) I doubt the church leaders are jumping for joy to watch a brother grow bitter and disillusioned, insomuch that his joy is tied up with besmirching/harassing the organization he was apart of and now cannot see any worthwhile good in. I believe the Apostles and Prophet believe the Church is true. I have no real good reason to not believe their sincerity. And if they're sincere, instead of self-centered joy, I would expect other-centered sorrow for what a waste of time, effort, and probably money Phillips has put into something so useless. With luv,BD 1
The Nehor Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I'm not 100% sure if you're serious or sarcastic,BDAllow me to assure you that he is using disingenuous sarcasm. He will probably deny it. He will be lying.
Buzzard Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 We shouldn't feel too exclusive. The particulars were different (German lawyers vs. the Catholics, trying to get the Pope dragged to The Hague), but people suing churches in secular courts has been done before, and not with much success:http://www.examiner.com/article/pope-charged-with-crimes-against-humanity-world-court15 minutes of fame, and all that. I even recall, back in the pre-internet age, an excommunicated member in Oregon or Washington state who had ordained a black man, who then baptized another man pre-1978, sued the church to recognize the ordinance, since they had given him priesthood authority to perform baptisms. It lasted about five minutes in court.
BlueDreams Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Allow me to assure you that he is using disingenuous sarcasm. He will probably deny it. He will be lying. Ah, thanks. I'm better with your insane sarcasm. More obvious and funny.
Johnnie Cake Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Come, come Nehor...You doubt the sincerity of my remarks...while I admit that my post was somewhat tongue in cheek...really this is a great opportunity for the church. Here they spent all that money last year and didn't get as much attention that this legal action is bringing. They've made the front page of the "London Times" for goodness sake, not to mention all of the other London and British papers. This is huge. It's blown up all over the internet. You can't google President Monson's name without this action coming up. You can't buy this kind of exposure. Why wouldn't they want to grab hold of this gift that Phillips has handed them and use it to once and for all proclaim the gospel. Just think of it, President Monson can hold a press conference in London's Hyde Park Ward house on Exhibition Road and with the British press leaning on his every word...address each and everyone of these 7 charges...and definitively tell the world that damn right we believe such and such. This is a golden opportunity for the church...that is of course unless they are somehow embarrassed by it as their spokesperson has suggested...which I personally don't understand...why would they be embarrassed of their own doctrines...I would think that they would be cheering in the halls of the CAB...this is a great opportunity that Phillips has naively given them Edited February 6, 2014 by Johnnie Cake 1
Kenngo1969 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Knock it off, Craig. (Nice sock puppet, by the way!)
The Nehor Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Come, come Nehor...You doubt the sincerity of my remarks...while I admit that my post was somewhat tongue in cheek...really this is a great opportunity for the church. Here they spent all that money last year and didn't get as much attention that this legal action is bringing. They've made the front cover the London Times for goodness sake, not to mention all of the other London and British papers. This is huge. It's blown up all over the internet. You can't google President Monson's name without this action coming up. You can't buy this kind of exposure. Why wouldn't they want to grab hold of this gift that Phillips has handed them and use it to once and for all proclaim the gospel. Just think of it, President Monson can hold a press conference in London's Hyde Park Ward house on Exhibition Road and with the British press leaning on his every word...address each and everyone of these 7 charges...and definitively tell the world that damn right we believe such and such. This is a golden opportunity for the church...that is of course unless they are somehow embarrassed by it as their spokesperson has suggested...Let me assure you that if President Monson flew in and took the stand to preach the gospel the judge would tell him what he was saying was irrelevant to the case. Answering these seven silly questions is not preaching the gospel. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 No sock puppet I assure you...I've been quite open about who I am...in past posts...just that my preferred name has been banned :-( Perhaps you could put a good word in with the powers that be to get me fully reinstated and have all of my former MD&D blessings restored... You are on the short list for another banning. You have been removed from the thread.
Damien the Leper Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 The only one I'm pretty sure they don't have is the sword of Laban.The others I'm fuzzy on. But I know there's things they do have.This is insufficient. Your response is vague and speculating. The church has given no reason since it's inception in the Salt Lake Valley that they have possession of the items listed. As for the church that existed from 1830 to 1844 the same stands.
InactiveLDS141 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I went ahead and threw my own two cents' worth in over at Catholic Answers, since they have at least one thread going over there now. No surprise there. I said I doubt the case goes anywhere. Funny, however.
Avatar4321 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I would think that the church would be jumping for joy at the wonderful opportunity this legal action has brought them. The folks at the CAB have got to be doing LDS versions of victory touch down dances at having this opportunity to defend LDS truth claims in such a high profile situation. What a wonderful opportunity for the Prophet to declare once and for all, in a high profile, media filled court of law exactly what their position are in each of these 7 charges. This could go down in history as President Monson's Abinidi moment. Think of the generation's of young Mormon's being taught of this great moment in church history. How President Monson confounded the so called learned. Surely, this is God's work. How naïve Tom Phillips was...to think he could embarrass the church. He has played right into the hands of the church. If only the church could have seen this coming...they might have not spent so much money on that "Mormon's are Just like You" ad campaign in London last year. Here Mr. Phillips has given them all the free media attention and an opportunity to teach the world church doctrine at the same time. Yup, You've blown it Mr Phillips. Nice try trying to make the church look foolish and silly...but you've wasted your money, its all for naught...I see this as nothing more than a win win situation for the church You seriously want Pres Monson to have an Abinadi moment? You realize that Abinadi's moment ended with him being burnt at the stake right? But you are right. This will ultimately be a win for the Church. Everything turns into a win for the Church.
why me Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I went ahead and threw my own two cents' worth in over at Catholic Answers, since they have at least one thread going over there now.No surprise there. I said I doubt the case goes anywhere. Funny, however.There are a few antimormons on that forum. They cannot see the dangers of a case like this going to court. As someone stated all religions would be in danger. One reason that this case will not see the light of day is because of Islam. One can also claim a lawsuit against islam and the koran by claiming fraud. Or the bible. But with islam, the muslims would be on the streets at any hint of such a claim. Too many worms will come out of the can if this goes to court. I don't think the can will be opened. Edited February 6, 2014 by why me
why me Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 But you are right. This will ultimately be a win for the Church. Everything turns into a win for the Church.It is already a win for the church. This is not actually bad publicity. I can see mormons going on SkyNews to explain about the church. To explain the tithe principle, the faith and how the book of mormon came to be. Mormons are known to be good people. his publicity will be a win. We also need to understand that the church is actually growing in the london area. This may be quite unsettling for some more virulent exmormons there.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 No sock puppet I assure you...I've been quite open about who I am...in past posts...just that my preferred name has been banned :-( Boo-hoo! It sucks to be you, doesn't it? Perhaps you could put a good word in with the powers that be to get me fully reinstated and have all of my former MD&D blessings restored... C'mon! Now's when you decide: are you a man, or are you a mouse! If you're the former, you don't need me to do any of your bidding for you! In the past, I've been dinged by the Moderators. Yeah, I whined about it publicly for a bit ... but in the end, I knew I had to decide whether I was going to stand up and take what I deserved like a man or not. I chose to take it like a man rather than asking anyone else to do my bidding for me. I know you probably won't like it, but that's my advice to you. Stop or you will have to be removed too.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) I doubt they'll do it while the case is still pending (except to invoke the Twelfth Article of Faith and Doctrine & Covenants 134, and to say that they have faith in the legal system), but it wouldn't surprise me to see the powers-that-be in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issue a formal public statement regarding the litigation at some point, over and above whatever they say in response to media inquiries. Edited February 6, 2014 by Kenngo1969
thatjimguy Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I know the church has an open record of it's ledgers out there because it is required. If this goes to trial, would they try to get access to all the church's accounting?
KevinG Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I wont worry until he received extradition papers for Carthage, Illinois. 2
The Nehor Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 I know the church has an open record of it's ledgers out there because it is required. If this goes to trial, would they try to get access to all the church's accounting? Nope, there is no way the court will decide they need the church's accounting records to decide this.
CMZ Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 generation's of young Mormon's "generations" not "generation's" "Mormons" not "Mormon's" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/05/common-grammar-errors_n_4731279.html 1
CMZ Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) This is insufficient. Your response is vague and speculating. The church has given no reason since it's inception in the Salt Lake Valley that they have possession of the items listed. As for the church that existed from 1830 to 1844 the same stands. Oh, well. I'm not trying to prove anything. I am going off of things said by a member of the Quorum of the Twelve at a meeting for singles in Long Beach in 2007 and by a member of the First Presidency at a regional priesthood meeting in Anaheim in 1994. Take it how you will. Edited February 6, 2014 by CMZ
Thinking Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Many posters on this board believe that Tom Phillips has little credibility. Just remember that you lose credibility when you resort to name-calling. On this thread alone Tom has been called loser, maroon, plonker (several times), idiot, embarrassment, and goon. I don't know what's going to happen with the case but one thing is true: people are talking about it. Whether that's good or bad for the LDS Church remains to be seen. 2
The Nehor Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Many posters on this board believe that Tom Phillips has little credibility. Just remember that you lose credibility when you resort to name-calling. On this thread alone Tom has been called loser, maroon, plonker (several times), idiot, embarrassment, and goon. I disrespectfully disagree. 1
Senator Posted February 6, 2014 Posted February 6, 2014 Many posters on this board believe that Tom Phillips has little credibility. Just remember that you lose credibility when you resort to name-calling. On this thread alone Tom has been called loser, maroon, plonker (several times), idiot, embarrassment, and goon. I don't know what's going to happen with the case but one thing is true: people are talking about it. Whether that's good or bad for the LDS Church remains to be seen. You forgot "twit".
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