Is Eternal Marriage A Promise Or A Threat?

[savedbygrace]

I think the world is as fascinated by this topic today as ever it was, I know I am. I am reading at present The 19th Wife, written by one of Brigham Young 's wives. I haven't finished it yet, but the picture she paints of polygamy is one of appalling suffering. Has anyone else read it, I would value an opinion.

.

[Stone holm]

I think the world is as fascinated by this topic today as ever it was, I know I am. I am reading at present The 19th Wife, written by one of Brigham Young 's wives. I haven't finished it yet, but the picture she paints of polygamy is one of appalling suffering. Has anyone else read it, I would value an opinion.

.

 

Is that by the one who divorced him?

[savedbygrace]

Is that by the one who divorced him?

Her name was Ann Eliza Young. I haven't finished the book yet, so don't know if they divorced, but she certainly left him.

[JLHPROF]

I think the world is as fascinated by this topic today as ever it was, I know I am. I am reading at present The 19th Wife, written by one of Brigham Young 's wives. I haven't finished it yet, but the picture she paints of polygamy is one of appalling suffering. Has anyone else read it, I would value an opinion.

.

 

Is that by the one who divorced him?

 

Yes, Ann Eliza Young divorced Brigham Young, but she wasn't alone in that.  The thing that made her infamous was she sued him for alimony, and almost won (it was appealed basically until Brigham died).

 

My opinion of Ann Eliza Young and her "tell all" is not very high.  She was a woman of questionable morals, attention seeking, and the book is typical 19th century sensationalism.  However, if read carefully, it does provide some interesting insight into Brigham Young and his family workings.  You just have to get past her bias.  For instance, her descriptions of jealousies and interactions between wives is fascinating.  Her glee in describing them is not.

[cdowis]

I was recently talking to a friend about the church and the promise of being sealed to one's spouse for time and eternity. My friend looked at me puzzled and asked, "Are you trying to talk in or OUT of the church?" Having met his wife on several occasions, I could immediately see his point and we both laughed.

He then seriously asked me, "Have you Mormons really thought out this eternal marriage thing? Are you that deliriously happy in your earthly marriage that you want to re-up for an ETERNITY? And even if so, how do you know that you wouldn't be even happier with one of the 100 BILLION people who have lived on this earth before, not mention the billions who might come after?"

 

 

Here is another view of the issue, as posted on google+

 

But I will make one other comment. The Mormon cult uses the false doctrine of "eternal families" to emotionally blackmail its members by threatening "apostates" that they will never be with their family members in eternity, This is emotional and psychological abuse, no other word for it.

 

 

Amazing.  So our doctrine of eternal families is "emotionally abusive".  

[savedbygrace]

Yes, Ann Eliza Young divorced Brigham Young, but she wasn't alone in that.  The thing that made her infamous was she sued him for alimony, and almost won (it was appealed basically until Brigham died).

 

My opinion of Ann Eliza Young and her "tell all" is not very high.  She was a woman of questionable morals, attention seeking, and the book is typical 19th century sensationalism.  However, if read carefully, it does provide some interesting insight into Brigham Young and his family workings.  You just have to get past her bias.  For instance, her descriptions of jealousies and interactions between wives is fascinating.  Her glee in describing them is not.

 

Thank you, I agree that her book contains her bias, as it would, it being an account of her experiences. It wasn't written as an observation by an disinterested author. Questionable morals? You have confirmed one of her comments, that any woman who left the church suffered having her reputation ruined by those whom she left, all kinds of character assassinations were heaped on them. It is worth noting I think that  this woman grew up in Mormonism, her family had been in the church from very early on, they suffered the migrations and losses, she grew up under the gaze of Brigham Young. She knew his family well, her own family were respectable, her father being a wagon maker who had been on missions, her mother was a school teacher whom she helped. Would the prophet have married her if her morals were questionable, he had known her all her life, so any immoral behaviour would surely have been known to him. Also, people of questionable morals are quite capable of telling the truth. In recent years in England a well known author and peer was accused of having a relationship with a prostitute. There was a court case in which the Judge compared the prostitute to  the accused's fragrant, lovely, wife, as though no man married to such a lovely lady could stoop to such behaviour. The accused won the case, and the woman of dubious morals was written off as a liar. However, some time later the case was resurrected and the peer was found guilty of perjury and jailed. So stirring doubt about this book by accusing her of questionable morals, doesn't work, it does not mean that the record that she wrote concerning polygamy and its effects is not a true record of her experiences and the misery she saw all around her due to its practice.

[Damien the Leper]

If you never wanted to get married then, yes it is a threat. Hopefully God is above such threats.

[Calm]

"Webb married James Dee monogamously on April 4, 1863 in Salt Lake City, Utah. They had two children together and later divorced.[2] According to Ann Eliza's biographer Irving Wallace, "for the rest of her days Ann Eliza would always refer to James Dee as the man who 'blighted' her life."[4]"

Interesting that it is her first husband she sees this way if marriage to BY was so awful.

"After her divorce from Brigham Young, she married 53-year-old Moses R. Denning of Manistee, Michigan,[5] a non-Mormon and wealthy logger known to have only one arm.[11][12] Two years prior to her marriage to Denning, Ann Eliza stayed at the home of Denning, who at the time was married with children.[12] Because of Denning's financial stability, Ann Eliza lost interest in her crusade against Mormonism and polygamy and stopped delivering lectures the week she married Denning.[11][13] She eventually became estranged from her family, including her children (a grandson told Wallace that neither of her sons had contact with her after they reached early adulthood). In 1930, her older grandson told Wallace "I hope to hell I never see her again."[14]...

Denning later left Ann Eliza after a series of alleged affairs she'd had with local townsmen.[15] According to Wallace, Ann Eliza retaliated on the advice of her attorney by charging large amounts of money to Denning's accounts, as she had previously done in her divorce from Brigham Young.[16]

A 1907 article on the 30th anniversary of Young's death updated the public on his then surviving widows and stated that Ann Eliza was divorced for the third time and living in Lansing, Michigan. The 1900 U.S. census had reported her living in Breckenridge, Summit County, Colorado.[17] Ann Eliza would eventually return to Utah to claim a $2,000 legacy from her first husband, whom she had previously described as the "blight of my life."[18]

Later years[edit]

In 1908, she published a revised version of Wife No. 19 entitled Life in Mormon Bondage, a revision of her previously published work and which excluded the story of her first marriage to Dee, and her third marriage to Denning entirely. By 1910, she had moved to Sparks, Washoe County, Nevada[19] residing at 546 - 16th St. She died on December 7, 1917 at her home in Sparks of pneumonia incident to old age[20] and was buried December 9 in Mountain View Cemetery, Reno, Nevada.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Eliza_Young#First_marriage

Not that wiki is the fount of all truth, but it leads me to be cautious at the very least.

Edited January 22, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Thank you, I agree that her book contains her bias, as it would, it being an account of her experiences. It wasn't written as an observation by an disinterested author. Questionable morals? You have confirmed one of her comments, that any woman who left the church suffered having her reputation ruined by those whom she left, all kinds of character assassinations were heaped on them.

well, apparently it wasn't only church members who had a low opinion of her later in her life....see my wiki cite for both "alleged affairs" claimed by her third exhusband, her apparent lack of actual care about the horrors of plural marriage if it is true she ceased to give lectures (though perhaps her new husband didnt like the association) etc as soon as she was financially secure, and poor relations with children and grandchildren.

Edited a strange autocorrect error...

Edited January 23, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

This looks like it might interest you, it is free to 'rent':

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/legacy/v026/26.1.derounian-stodola.pdf

[savedbygrace]

well, apparently it wasn't only church members who had a low opinion of her later in her life....see my wiki cite for both "alleged affairs" claimed by her third exhusband, her apparent lack area tubal care about the horrors of plural marriage if it is true she ceased to give lectures (though perhaps her new husband didnt like the association) etc as soon as she was financially secure, and poor relations with children and grandchildren

Thanks Cal, still doesn't negate the book. The thing that comes over to me 're polygamy is the imposition of another woman into your intimacy with your husband. Speaking from a female perspective with a 37 year marriage on going, that is what I couldn't abide. I don't mean sexual intimacy necessarily, but that which comes with time, experiences both good and bad, growing g comfortable together, really knowing each other, memories laid down that only you two share. To have another woman take up that position and to have to watch your man start laying down New experiences and memories with her in which you have no part would be unbearable. So as I read Ann Eliza's book I can really feel the desolation that this system could cause, and can only hope that it never becomes possible for it be practised again. As for plurality of wives in eternity, I just don't know how that doctrine can bring any comfort to Mormon women.

Edited January 23, 2014 by savedbygrace

[mfbukowski]

Her name was Ann Eliza Young. I haven't finished the book yet, so don't know if they divorced, but she certainly left him.

Is that the one who jumps out of a window in the Salt Lake temple into the lake to escape?

[JLHPROF]

well, apparently it wasn't only church members who had a low opinion of her later in her life....see my wiki cite for both "alleged affairs" claimed by her third exhusband, her apparent lack area tubal care about the horrors of plural marriage if it is true she ceased to give lectures (though perhaps her new husband didnt like the association) etc as soon as she was financially secure, and poor relations with children and grandchildren

 

This is what I was referring to.  Her perspective on events was not to be trusted as her character and bitterness were questionable.  However, the events she describes have historical interest.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I was recently talking to a friend about the church and the promise of being sealed to one's spouse for time and eternity. My friend looked at me puzzled and asked, "Are you trying to talk in or OUT of the church?" Having met his wife on several occasions, I could immediately see his point and we both laughed.

He then seriously asked me, "Have you Mormons really thought out this eternal marriage thing? Are you that deliriously happy in your earthly marriage that you want to re-up for an ETERNITY? And even if so, how do you know that you wouldn't be even happier with one of the 100 BILLION people who have lived on this earth before, not mention the billions who might come after?"

As a recent convert, I didn't have good answers to any of these questions. I had never even thought of them before. Why would I? I happen to be married to a woman who possesses incomparable beauty, infinite understanding and most importantly, access to this board ("Hey, Baby!").

And while you might be able to say the same about your spouse, that isn't the case for most people. In many societies, half of all marriages in end failure; and the other half in end divorce. And while we can quibble about percentages, a substantial number of prospective members will be in less than ideal marriages. From their standpoint, eternal marriage will sound much more like a threat than a curse.

What is it that they need to know to be able to understand what a blessing this can be?

No more a promise or a threat than Salvation is...