Do You Think You Will Be Exalted One Day?

[mfbukowski]

I just worry a lot because I feel such sorrow about my past and always worry about my current standing in the plan of salvation. It's always been a worry of mine.

You have spoken to your bishop before- do so again, and he will tell you the same thing!

[jkwilliams]

Of course that was not the question.  Distinctions, John, distinctions!  Was the question "Do you think you will forgiven"?  No.

 

EV's believe they have been forgiven , but they don't even believe in exaltation.  It's not for a minute that I don't like you, it's just that your comments do not seem to me to be on point much of the time.  I say abc and you say "well what about rmn?

 

I suppose I really should not comment on your posts because we end up.... well, wasting time.

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was trying to see things from the poster's point of view; I understand what you are saying, but I thought it need not be a prideful thing to believe you will be exalted, as the poster seemed to be a lot like me: lacking in self-esteem to the point of doubting that forgiveness and exaltation border on the impossible. If that's not on point, I apologize.

 

I wasn't trying to debate you or contradict you, but rather to look at things a slightly different way that I thought might be helpful to the poster's question.

[The Grimace]

I was just saying that being exalted requires humility and thinking you are worthy to be exalted requires pride.

 

On the other hand, no one can never be worthy of exaltation on their own- the atonement makes up the difference, so maybe it depends on how you look at it.

 

Well, that makes little sense. Exaltation requires hope and faith, and atonemonet. If I have the first two, I have confidence I will be exalted. That's not pride. 

 

If I have the first two, and think I won't be exalted, then why bother?

[Kenngo1969]

I was just saying that being exalted requires humility and thinking you are worthy to be exalted requires pride.

 

On the other hand, no one can never be worthy of exaltation on their own- the atonement makes up all the difference, so maybe it depends on how you look at it.

It wouldn't be possible to repent without the Atonement, so it doesn't simply make up the difference, it makes all the difference.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[Calm]

 

The unpardonable sin is to willfully deny and defy the Holy Ghost after having received His witness.

No man can sin against light until he has it; nor against the Holy Ghost, until after he has received it by the gift of God through the appointed channel or way. To sin against the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter, the Witness of the Father and the Son, wilfully denying him and defying him, after having received him, constitutes [the unpardonable sin].¹⁶

No man can possibly commit the unpardonable sin in ignorance. A man must be brought to a knowledge of Christ; he must receive a testimony of Christ in his heart, and possess light and power, knowledge and understanding, before he is capable of committing that sin. But when a man turns away from the truth, violates the knowledge that he has received, tramples it under his feet, puts Christ again to open shame, denies His atonement, denies the power of the resurrection, denies the miracles that He has wrought for the salvation of the human family, and says in his heart, “It is not true”, and abides in that denial of the truth, after having received the testimony of the Spirit, he commits the unpardonable sin.¹⁷

[Following the Savior’s Crucifixion,] why were [the Apostles] forgetful and seemingly ignorant of all they had been taught by the Savior respecting the objects of his mission to the earth? Because they lacked one important qualification, they had not yet been “endowed with power from on high.” [see Luke 24:49.] They had not yet obtained the gift of the Holy Ghost. …

If the disciples had been endowed with the “gift of the Holy Ghost,” or “with power from on high,” at this time, their course would have been altogether different … , as the sequel abundantly proved. If Peter, who was the chief apostle, had received the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the power and testimony thereof prior to the terrible night on which he cursed and swore and denied his Lord [seeMatthew 26:69–75], the result would have been very different with him, for then he would have sinned against “light and knowledge,” and “against the Holy Ghost,” for which there is no forgiveness. The fact, therefore, that he was forgiven, after bitter tears of repentance, is an evidence that he was without the witness of the Holy Ghost, never having received it. The other disciples or apostles of Christ were precisely in the same condition, and it was not until the evening of the day on which Jesus came out of the grave that he bestowed upon them this inestimable gift [see John 20:22].¹⁸

Just before the risen Redeemer left the earth he commanded his disciples to tarry in the city of Jerusalem until they should be endowed with power from on high. They did so, and agreeable to promise, the Comforter came whilst they were met together, filling their hearts with unspeakable joy, insomuch that they spake in tongues and prophesied; and the inspiring influence of this holy being accompanied them in all their ministerial duties, enabling them to perform the great mission to which they had been called by the Savior.¹⁹

Saul, of Tarsus, possessing extraordinary intelligence and learning, brought up at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the perfect manner of the law, persecuted the Saints unto death, binding and delivering unto prisons both men and women; and when the blood of the Martyr Stephen was shed, Saul stood by keeping the raiment of those who slew him, and consented unto his death. And “he made havoc of the Church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.” [Acts 8:3.] And when they were put to death, he gave his voice against them, and he “punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, persecuted them even unto strange cities,” [Acts 26:11] and yet this man committed nounpardonable sin, because he knew not the Holy Ghost.²⁰

If any people on earth are capable of committing the unpardonable sin, you will find them among those who have, or will, come to a knowledge of the truth. … You and I have received the light. We have received the Holy Priesthood. We have received the testimony of the Holy Spirit, and have been brought from death unto life. Therefore, we are now on very safe or on dangerous ground,—dangerous if we are trifling with these sacred things that have been committed to our care. Hence I warn you, my brethren and sisters, especially my brethren, against trifling with your [priesthood]. … If you do, as God lives He will withdraw His Spirit from you, and the time will come when you will be found kicking against the light and knowledge which you have received, and you may become sons of perdition. Therefore, you had better beware lest the second death shall be passed upon you.²¹

http://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-f-smith/chapter-8?lang=eng&query=unpardonable+sin

[Calm]

Speaking of those who commit the unpardonable sin and thus become sons of perdition, the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he s[ees] it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it; and from that time he begins to be an enemy” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith,358).

 

http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-student-study-guide/the-church-in-ohio-and-missouri/doctrine-and-covenants-76-the-vision-of-the-different-degrees-of-glory?lang=eng&query=unpardonable+sin

Edited October 29, 2013 by calmoriah

[jkwilliams]

http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-student-study-guide/the-church-in-ohio-and-missouri/doctrine-and-covenants-76-the-vision-of-the-different-degrees-of-glory?lang=eng&query=unpardonable+sin

 

It doesn't sound as if that applies to the poster or any of us here. Not even me.

[canard78]

There is only one sin for which there is no forgiveness in this world or the world to come. That one is the unwillingness to repent.

 

Eh? That's a new one on me. I thought the only one was denying the Holy Ghost, or did I miss the memo.

[thesometimesaint]

Eh? That's a new one on me. I thought the only one was denying the Holy Ghost, or did I miss the memo.

 

Same difference. Denying the Holy Ghost is an unwillingness to repent.

[canard78]

http://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-student-study-guide/the-church-in-ohio-and-missouri/doctrine-and-covenants-76-the-vision-of-the-different-degrees-of-glory?lang=eng&query=unpardonable+sin

 

Given the unpardonable sin is the worst of all of them I've always found it odd that it's the most vaguely defined. "What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against Him."

 

So have I received the Holy Ghost? I was told to at confirmation...

Have I had the heavens opened to me? I feel some they may have in certain ways

Do I know God? I think so - depends on what that means.

 

So am I in a position to sin against Him? Maybe - but it's unclear. And how would I sin against him?

 

Whenever I bring this up people tend to tell me not to worry about it because apparently I've not qualified for knowing enough to be able to then sin against that knowledge.

 

Like I said, I find it odd that the definition is so vague when the implications are so serious. 

[canard78]

Same difference. Denying the Holy Ghost is an unwillingness to repent.

 

Can you provide a reference for that? You might have just answered the question in my previous post.

[thesometimesaint]

Can you provide a reference for that? You might have just answered the question in my previous post.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=51969daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/unpardonable-sin

 

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/forgive

[The Nehor]

If you think you will be, you probably won't be.

Being convinced that you merit exaltation is pride. Being convinced that you will get it despite how big a screwup you are is either insanity or humility depending on how you live your life.

In short, yes. One day the cosmos will bend to my will as I rule all of creation. My power will be absolute and I will have everything I desire.

Edited October 29, 2013 by The Nehor

[pogi]

If you think you will be, you probably won't be.

 

 "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life..."  (1 John 5:12-13)

 

"Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." (1 John 3:21)

 

To have confidence in your own exaltation is only to have confidence in the name of the Son of God, His atoning power, and promises of exaltation to those who believe and obey.  A humble and enduring hope and faith in the savior should always lead to an enduring and confident hope and faith in your own exaltation.

[Calm]

To have confidence in your own exaltation is only to have confidence in the name of the Son of God, His atoning power, and promises of exaltation to those who believe and obey.  A humble and enduring hope and faith in the savior should always lead to an enduring and confident hope and faith in your own exaltation.

I think there is a difference that is not always articulated between having the confidence in God being able to draw you to exaltation and having the pride of being convinced you will deserve exaltation.  I suspect that Mark was referring to a great extent to the latter, having that assurance that no matter what, we will never achieve the level of pride or desire that could cause us to become one of those who rejects the fulness of the Atonement.  We have only to look at church leaders and people in the scripture who have made missteps as well as the examples all around us of those who have lost their faith and not only turned their backs on the gospel, but now mock it and God himself.  If we become too secure in that assurance and fail to continue to nurture our faith, we may well become something we would never dream at this point in our lives we might be.

Edited October 29, 2013 by calmoriah

[pogi]

I think there is a difference that is not always articulated between having the confidence in God being able to draw you to exaltation and having the pride of being convinced you will deserve exaltation.  

 

Good point.   If you were referring to the latter, I apologize for the misunderstanding Mark, but at face value I disagree that thinking that we will be exalted is an indicator that we probably will not be.  That is not always a sign of pride, it could just as easily be a sign of righteous faith. 

 

 We have only to look at church leaders and people in the scripture who have made missteps as well as the examples all around us of those who have lost their faith and not only turned their backs on the gospel, but now mock it and God himself.  If we become too secure in that assurance and fail to continue to nurture our faith, we may well become something we would never dream at this point in our lives we might be.

 

I agree, our hope and faith needs be enduring as I was careful to state. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

I hope everyone on this board achieves exaltation.

[mfbukowski]

People are talking about having "confidence", in being exalted-  which is essentially faith. 

 

Of course that is not what I was talking about.  I was talking about the hubris of some who think once they have been sealed, they are "in", and those who are not are "out". 

 

If you think that, you are clearly not "in".

 

Notice in my original comment I mentioned work for the dead- that was why I mentioned it.  Being sealed in this life is a pre-requisite, but far from a guarantee, and of course people who have not been sealed before death are still just as much in the running as anyone else.

 

There is no point in arguing it further.

[VideoGameJunkie]

People are talking about having "confidence", in being exalted-  which is essentially faith. 

 

Of course that is not what I was talking about.  I was talking about the hubris of some who think once they have been sealed, they are "in", and those who are not are "out". 

 

If you think that, you are clearly not "in".

 

Notice in my original comment I mentioned work for the dead- that was why I mentioned it.  Being sealed in this life is a pre-requisite, but far from a guarantee, and of course people who have not been sealed before death are still just as much in the running as anyone else.

 

There is no point in arguing it further.

So if I died right now while being single, I'd still be in the running?

[The Grimace]

People are talking about having "confidence", in being exalted-  which is essentially faith. 

 

Of course that is not what I was talking about.  I was talking about the hubris of some who think once they have been sealed, they are "in", and those who are not are "out". 

 

If you think that, you are clearly not "in".

 

Notice in my original comment I mentioned work for the dead- that was why I mentioned it.  Being sealed in this life is a pre-requisite, but far from a guarantee, and of course people who have not been sealed before death are still just as much in the running as anyone else.

 

There is no point in arguing it further.

 

This was your original (and first) comment:

 

If you think you will be, you probably won't be

 

I fail to see any mention of work for the dead in this post. Or sealing. 

[mfbukowski]

So if I died right now while being single, I'd still be in the running?

Of course, as long as you are doing your best.

 

We already discussed this

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/62078-3-levels-of-the-celestial-kingdom/?p=1209312584

Edited October 29, 2013 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

This was your original (and first) comment:

 

If you think you will be, you probably won't be

 

I fail to see any mention of work for the dead in this post. Or sealing. 

I see the problem.  We have the same person essentially asking the same question on two different threads

 

I wish it was that simple.

 

These may be the high-school prerequisties for getting into college but there is a bit more involoved in getting your phd.

 

And remember we also have work for the dead.

[mercyngrace]

I was just saying that being exalted requires humility and thinking you are worthy to be exalted requires pride.

 

On the other hand, no one can never be worthy of exaltation on their own- the atonement makes up the difference, so maybe it depends on how you look at it.

 

 

There is quite a difference between believing you will be exalted and believing you are worthy to be exalted.

 

The former is a humble recognition of the far reaching influence of a virtuous and loving God.

 

The latter over-emphasizes the individual's ability to progress by his/her own merit. (Which is, ironically, the same self-centered mindset which causes us to question whether we can/will be exalted.)

[JLHPROF]

Short answer: Yes.

 

I think everyone will achieve exaltation who is willing to do EVERYTHING God requires and WANTS to live in the same condition as the Gods do and works towards this goal.  But as Joseph Smith said it will be a long time after the resurrection that most of us reach this level.

 

If you read about the war in heaven, the 3rd part didn't want God's plan.  If you read about the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms, there was some part of Celestial life they didn't want.  If you read about perdition those who fall that far fought against God.  These are the real keys, not how perfect we manage to become.  Exaltation is for those who take all the steps that they are capable of taking, who don't resist or fight the will of God, and who want to do things the way the Gods do them.  The other conditions and ends have always resulted from rejecting Celestial things (for any reason - sin, thought, feelings, choice).

 

So be completely 100% willing to do the will of God, no matter what else, and exaltation is assured, and there are plenty of references that teach this point.  It's not really about being sinless (yet).

[VideoGameJunkie]

Short answer: Yes.

 

I think everyone will achieve exaltation who is willing to do EVERYTHING God requires and WANTS to live in the same condition as the Gods do and works towards this goal.  But as Joseph Smith said it will be a long time after the resurrection that most of us reach this level.

 

If you read about the war in heaven, the 3rd part didn't want God's plan.  If you read about the Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms, there was some part of Celestial life they didn't want.  If you read about perdition those who fall that far fought against God.  These are the real keys, not how perfect we manage to become.  Exaltation is for those who take all the steps that they are capable of taking, who don't resist or fight the will of God, and who want to do things the way the Gods do them.  The other conditions and ends have always resulted from rejecting Celestial things (for any reason - sin, thought, feelings, choice).

 

So be completely 100% willing to do the will of God, no matter what else, and exaltation is assured, and there are plenty of references that teach this point.  It's not really about being sinless (yet).

I'll do my best to be sinless though.