Change To The Gospel - Poll

[JLHPROF]

There have been some interesting perspectives presented in various threads lately, covering many topics including Women and the Priesthood, Worthy Male Members, the Lorenzo Snow couplet, Polygamy as essential to exaltation, and other topics.

 

I tried to start a thread discussing potential changes, but I think that perhaps this poll might be more effective (if I set it up right).

Please feel free to comment if I missed anything on the poll and I made sure to allow for a none-of-the-above response.

But I am very curious and surprised at the variety of responses to change in the Church so, anyway, here goes nothing.

Edited October 9, 2013 by JLHPROF

[jkwilliams]

One change I think is overlooked often is the nature of the Godhead. In the early days of the church, there were two members: God the Father and Jesus Christ, with the Holy Ghost being the "mind" of God, not a separate being. Of course, that doctrinal change happened through revelation (Section 130), but to me it's a pretty significant doctrinal change.

[CV75]

I checked "other" on all 3 items.

 

While official doctrines, teachings or beliefs of the Church may change, the only ones we need to be concerned with are those that are presented to us in our lifetime. It is a living Church, we sustain the living prophets, and the Holy Ghost operates upon her faithful members in real time and place (the bounds of our habitations).

 

My reaction or response to a MAJOR change would entirely depend on how faithful I am at the time.

 

When previous general authorities are recorded as teaching a doctrine that is no longer accepted, we need to remember that the only doctrines they needed to be concerned with teaching were those that were given to them during their lifetime. If any former doctrine is no longer accepted, they are not relevant for us to follow. While some of the options you listed could apply as exceptions, tthe rule rather than the exception is the option that both the former and current doctrines on a particular matter are correct for their respective time and place. Again, we are only responsible for following and sustaining the living prophets and their teachings, and for having the Holy Ghost to help and guide us in doing that.

[JLHPROF]

I checked "other" on all 3 items.

 

While official doctrines, teachings or beliefs of the Church may change, the only ones we need to be concerned with are those that are presented to us in our lifetime. It is a living Church, we sustain the living prophets, and the Holy Ghost operates upon her faithful members in real time and place (the bounds of our habitations).

 

My reaction or response to a MAJOR change would entirely depend on how faithful I am at the time.

 

When previous general authorities are recorded as teaching a doctrine that is no longer accepted, we need to remember that the only doctrines they needed to be concerned with teaching were those that were given to them during their lifetime. If any former doctrine is no longer accepted, they are not relevant for us to follow. While some of the options you listed could apply as exceptions, tthe rule rather than the exception is the option that both the former and current doctrines on a particular matter are correct for their respective time and place. Again, we are only responsible for following and sustaining the living prophets and their teachings, and for having the Holy Ghost to help and guide us in doing that.

While I don't fully agree, I appreciate your perspective.

[mfbukowski]

None of the presented options and alternatives capture my beliefs.

[JLHPROF]

None of the presented options and alternatives capture my beliefs.

Well, please clarify your opinions on each of the 3 situations.  That's is what I'm polling with the 3 questions for:  Do you think that church doctrine has changed?  How do you accept any major changes?  Why do you think GA's differ on doctrine or do they?

[mfbukowski]

Well, please clarify your opinions on each of the 3 situations.  That's is what I'm polling with the 3 questions for:  Do you think that church doctrine has changed?  How do you accept any major changes?  Why do you think GA's differ on doctrine or do they?

Well I am weird, I probably should not have answered.

 

I, along with others like perhaps Blake Ostler, don't think we have much "doctrine" to have changes or no changes.  I accept what the spirit tells me to accept, hopefully moment to moment if I am in tune. (HOPEFULLY- I wish!)

 

GA's don't "differ" on what is non-existent.  They just follow the spirit and seem to disagree when they put it into words.  I see the church as a core of people, some more fundamentalist than others, but all of which are kind of fellow-travelers on this planet with similar beliefs and tendencies, all marching under one banner, some inside the the circle of membership and some outside of the circle still among the fellow-travelers on the wagon train of life.

 

We kind of camp together because we like the fellowship and similar beliefs and someone to talk to along the trail.

 

Actually that kind of reminds me of that Elder Holland talk a while back.

[JLHPROF]

Thank you to everyone who responded.  Being newer to the board I wanted to get a rough idea of people's perspectives.

It seems like there is a wide range of viewpoint on our changing/unchanging religion.  The range of opinion was exactly what I expected, and will help me understand where different posters are coming from on issues.

[Tacenda]

I read an interesting fact today. In our church they performed baptisms for health reaaons, so if a baby is sick or even an adult. So many were performed they outnumbered endowments and baptisms for the dead. I'm thinking this took place in the early days of the church when these ordinaces started..

[JLHPROF]

I read an interesting fact today. In our church they performed baptisms for health reaaons, so if a baby is sick or even an adult. So many were performed they outnumbered endowments and baptisms for the dead. I'm thinking this took place in the early days of the church when these ordinaces started..

 

It's true.  Rebaptism for a variety of reasons was pretty common in the 1800s Church.  I read somewhere that Brigham Young was baptized 15 times in his life for various reasons (not counting work for the dead).  Not sure where the reference is.

Edited October 15, 2013 by JLHPROF

[thesometimesaint]

I was dunked seven times. My foot kept on coming up.

[Stone holm]

The poll questions do not fit my testimony or mindset very well because they assume the same reaction to any change. If a change for example was such that the religion was no longer the religion that I joined, I would probably leave, examples being if the Book of Mormon was no longer accepted as a history or if God were no longer considered an exalted man, however, other changes like extending the priesthood to women or expanding our knowledge of our Heavenly Mother were introduced, I would probably just shrug and say about time.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I was dunked seven times. My foot kept on coming up.

Looks like we have something else in common.

[Ahab]

Well, please clarify your opinions on each of the 3 situations.  That's is what I'm polling with the 3 questions for:  Do you think that church doctrine has changed?  How do you accept any major changes?  Why do you think GA's differ on doctrine or do they?

I would have said the same thing if he hadn't beaten  me to it so I'll answer the same follow-up questions from you:

 

Do you think that church doctrine has changed? :

When I read that question I thought about how the Aaronic priesthood was once limited to descendants of Aaron and now it's open to all worthy males in the Church.  So yes, the doctrine or teaching supporting that policy has changed, but I'm not sure if that counts as a significant change, and that's the only option you listed that sounds close but not right to my thinking.

 

How do you accept any major changes?

Like what, for example?  I'm not aware of any change which I would say is a "major" change.  And if I were to hear of a change I would consider a major change I would ask our Father about it and then act accordingly to what he tells me.

 

Why do you think GA's differ on doctrine or do they?

They differ because they're at different levels, intellectually/spiritually.  Some still need to learn more of what God tries to teach us and some of them have learned more than some others among them.

[The Nehor]

God does not seem to recognize "official doctrine". We made up the term so why should God care what we do with it?

[jkwilliams]

God does not seem to recognize "official doctrine". We made up the term so why should God care what we do with it?

 

That raises an interesting question. Since the current arbiters of doctrine are the correlation committee, does God have to abide by their decisions?

[ccook617]

Hello LDS friends, 

I will start off by saying that I am not a member of the LDS church. I am a Bible believing born-again Christian. I grew up in a town with a large population of Mormons and Christians. Many of my friends growing up were Mormon. To this day I am still friends with many of them. I grew up in a strong Christian household, went to church every Sunday, Bible studies on Sundays and Wednesdays, I went to a Christian high school, and I have family members who are Pastors. When I was 8 years old, the Holy Spirit came into my life and changed me. I was no longer sentenced to a life in hell apart from God, but now because Christ has forgiven my sins and spoken on my behalf, I am able to live with my Father in heaven. I knew at age 8 my sins separated me from a life with God and the ONLY way I can be with Him is if I am Holy and blameless in His sight. Because I am a sinner, I am far from being Holy and blameless no matter all the wonderful things I do. No matter the sin or the amount of times I have sinned, I am destined to hell. However, it is only by the grace of Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord that my sins have been wiped clean so that I might have everlasting life with my Father in heaven. When I was filled with the Holy Spirit and knew that I am no longer sentenced to death but that I now have life and it was not of my doing but of Christ's doing, it was a message I wanted to share to all that I knew. Like I mentioned, I had many LDS friends growing up. So of course, they were one of the first people that I wanted to tell of this great message. Being 8 years old, I knew just basic things about the LDS faith from what my friends and family have told me. My friends would state that they were "Christians" because they believed in Christ, however I knew they did not believe the same things that I believed. I was so confused that my Mormon friends were calling themselves Christians that I went to ask my parents if they were and why they said that they were. My parents who are very knowledgeable in the Bible as well as many faiths explained to me the differences and why we Christians do not believe Mormons are Christians. This broke my heart because I have friends who are telling me that they know Christ and they are going to heaven when in fact, the Bible does not teach that. As I have gotten older, I have devoted a lot of my time into reading about the LDS faith so that I might be able to approach my dear LDS friends and guide them to know the real Christ so that they may be saved. I have a huge heart for the LDS people. I think they are some of the nicest people out there, which makes me more saddened by the fact that those of the Mormon faith are deceived. So here I am asking all of you who read this, to have a respectful open discussion with me regarding your faith. I saw the poll answers and it just goes to show that some of you place so much trust into your leaders that you ignore your own writings. I think everyone wants to seek out the truth. Nobody really wants to believe in something that is not true. The LDS say that the Mormon church is the True church. You believe in the LDS faith because you believe it to be true, but what if it is not true? What if the things that you have been taught are lies? Wouldn't you like to be brought out of darkness and into the light? I would love to discuss the problems in the LDS faith with whoever is willing discuss with me. This would be a time for you to present to me why you believe and KNOW that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church and that it is not a lie, Joseph Smith was a real prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc... 

[Kind Debater]

Going along with the topic of this thread, I have some general questions (I would start a new thread but I can't yet). I don't really understand the LDS mindset concerning determining doctrine. I know there is focus on the living prophets interpreting things and providing guidance, yet there is focus on studying the Bible, BoM, etc. What I don't understand is how the two intersect, and where past prophets' teachings fit in. If you have a question of doctrine, what's the most authoritative source? If living prophets' teachings are more relevant than dead prophets, why refer to the Bible or BoM at all when they're much further removed in time? If prophets can say/teach things that aren't authoritative per se but just speculation that may be wrong, then maybe the current prophet may be engaging in wrong speculation in a particular instance but a previous prophet was more accurate. How do you determine what's accurate teaching and what isn't?

I am honestly trying to understand here. What my questions boil down to is, "If I were LDS, how would I know what to believe?" I have asked this of Mormons before but I haven't ever really grokked the answer. And maybe it depends on individuals' perspectives, I don't know.

[JLHPROF]

 If living prophets' teachings are more relevant than dead prophets, why refer to the Bible or BoM at all when they're much further removed in time? If prophets can say/teach things that aren't authoritative per se but just speculation that may be wrong, then maybe the current prophet may be engaging in wrong speculation in a particular instance but a previous prophet was more accurate. How do you determine what's accurate teaching and what isn't?

 

The biggest challenge with this issue is that since truth is eternal, there really shouldn't ever be any change to God's doctrine - only an increase in information as more is revealed.  That was the main purpose in starting this thread, to ascertain how the board members viewed changes in doctrine.

Unfortunately, the trend is that "whatever the current prophet teaches has to be right, so whatever the past prophets taught that contradict it must be wrong".  I dislike that notion.  Truth is truth, no matter who said it.

[Kind Debater]

The biggest challenge with this issue is that since truth is eternal, there really shouldn't ever be any change to God's doctrine - only an increase in information as more is revealed.  That was the main purpose in starting this thread, to ascertain how the board members viewed changes in doctrine.

Unfortunately, the trend is that "whatever the current prophet teaches has to be right, so whatever the past prophets taught that contradict it must be wrong".  I dislike that notion.  Truth is truth, no matter who said it.

I agree, though I do understand the argument that God does sometimes give different commands at different times or to different people.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I agree, though I do understand the argument that God does sometimes give different commands at different times or to different people.

He does. I am sure you are familiar with the bible. The OT vs the NT.

[rodheadlee]

Hello LDS friends, 

I will start off by saying that I am not a member of the LDS church. I am a Bible believing born-again Christian. I grew up in a town with a large population of Mormons and Christians. Many of my friends growing up were Mormon. To this day I am still friends with many of them. I grew up in a strong Christian household, went to church every Sunday, Bible studies on Sundays and Wednesdays, I went to a Christian high school, and I have family members who are Pastors. When I was 8 years old, the Holy Spirit came into my life and changed me. I was no longer sentenced to a life in hell apart from God, but now because Christ has forgiven my sins and spoken on my behalf, I am able to live with my Father in heaven. I knew at age 8 my sins separated me from a life with God and the ONLY way I can be with Him is if I am Holy and blameless in His sight. Because I am a sinner, I am far from being Holy and blameless no matter all the wonderful things I do. No matter the sin or the amount of times I have sinned, I am destined to hell. However, it is only by the grace of Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord that my sins have been wiped clean so that I might have everlasting life with my Father in heaven. When I was filled with the Holy Spirit and knew that I am no longer sentenced to death but that I now have life and it was not of my doing but of Christ's doing, it was a message I wanted to share to all that I knew. Like I mentioned, I had many LDS friends growing up. So of course, they were one of the first people that I wanted to tell of this great message. Being 8 years old, I knew just basic things about the LDS faith from what my friends and family have told me. My friends would state that they were "Christians" because they believed in Christ, however I knew they did not believe the same things that I believed. I was so confused that my Mormon friends were calling themselves Christians that I went to ask my parents if they were and why they said that they were. My parents who are very knowledgeable in the Bible as well as many faiths explained to me the differences and why we Christians do not believe Mormons are Christians. This broke my heart because I have friends who are telling me that they know Christ and they are going to heaven when in fact, the Bible does not teach that. As I have gotten older, I have devoted a lot of my time into reading about the LDS faith so that I might be able to approach my dear LDS friends and guide them to know the real Christ so that they may be saved. I have a huge heart for the LDS people. I think they are some of the nicest people out there, which makes me more saddened by the fact that those of the Mormon faith are deceived. So here I am asking all of you who read this, to have a respectful open discussion with me regarding your faith. I saw the poll answers and it just goes to show that some of you place so much trust into your leaders that you ignore your own writings. I think everyone wants to seek out the truth. Nobody really wants to believe in something that is not true. The LDS say that the Mormon church is the True church. You believe in the LDS faith because you believe it to be true, but what if it is not true? What if the things that you have been taught are lies? Wouldn't you like to be brought out of darkness and into the light? I would love to discuss the problems in the LDS faith with whoever is willing discuss with me. This would be a time for you to present to me why you believe and KNOW that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church and that it is not a lie, Joseph Smith was a real prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc...

 

 

 

 

 

Luke 11:11

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

  12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

  13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give ^athe Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ccook617]

 

Hello LDS friends, 

I will start off by saying that I am not a member of the LDS church. I am a Bible believing born-again Christian. I grew up in a town with a large population of Mormons and Christians. Many of my friends growing up were Mormon. To this day I am still friends with many of them. I grew up in a strong Christian household, went to church every Sunday, Bible studies on Sundays and Wednesdays, I went to a Christian high school, and I have family members who are Pastors. When I was 8 years old, the Holy Spirit came into my life and changed me. I was no longer sentenced to a life in hell apart from God, but now because Christ has forgiven my sins and spoken on my behalf, I am able to live with my Father in heaven. I knew at age 8 my sins separated me from a life with God and the ONLY way I can be with Him is if I am Holy and blameless in His sight. Because I am a sinner, I am far from being Holy and blameless no matter all the wonderful things I do. No matter the sin or the amount of times I have sinned, I am destined to hell. However, it is only by the grace of Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord that my sins have been wiped clean so that I might have everlasting life with my Father in heaven. When I was filled with the Holy Spirit and knew that I am no longer sentenced to death but that I now have life and it was not of my doing but of Christ's doing, it was a message I wanted to share to all that I knew. Like I mentioned, I had many LDS friends growing up. So of course, they were one of the first people that I wanted to tell of this great message. Being 8 years old, I knew just basic things about the LDS faith from what my friends and family have told me. My friends would state that they were "Christians" because they believed in Christ, however I knew they did not believe the same things that I believed. I was so confused that my Mormon friends were calling themselves Christians that I went to ask my parents if they were and why they said that they were. My parents who are very knowledgeable in the Bible as well as many faiths explained to me the differences and why we Christians do not believe Mormons are Christians. This broke my heart because I have friends who are telling me that they know Christ and they are going to heaven when in fact, the Bible does not teach that. As I have gotten older, I have devoted a lot of my time into reading about the LDS faith so that I might be able to approach my dear LDS friends and guide them to know the real Christ so that they may be saved. I have a huge heart for the LDS people. I think they are some of the nicest people out there, which makes me more saddened by the fact that those of the Mormon faith are deceived. So here I am asking all of you who read this, to have a respectful open discussion with me regarding your faith. I saw the poll answers and it just goes to show that some of you place so much trust into your leaders that you ignore your own writings. I think everyone wants to seek out the truth. Nobody really wants to believe in something that is not true. The LDS say that the Mormon church is the True church. You believe in the LDS faith because you believe it to be true, but what if it is not true? What if the things that you have been taught are lies? Wouldn't you like to be brought out of darkness and into the light? I would love to discuss the problems in the LDS faith with whoever is willing discuss with me. This would be a time for you to present to me why you believe and KNOW that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church and that it is not a lie, Joseph Smith was a real prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc...

 

 

 

 

 

Luke 11:11

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

  12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

  13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give ^athe Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please explain to me why you quoted this verse as I am confused on how it relates and what point you are trying to address. I am also not really sure how to post a reply on this board so I am hoping this works. 

[BCSpace]

This would be a time for you to present to me why you believe and KNOW that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true church and that it is not a lie, Joseph Smith was a real prophet, the Book of Mormon is true, etc...

 

We could start off with the fact that the LDS Church has the only Christian doctrine that is entirely Biblical consistent. Or perhaps the fact that in doctrine we look more like the NT Church than any other church.  Early Christian history shows numerous LDS-like doctrines including the nature of the Godhead. That the early Christian church UNIVERSALLY Apostatized is evidenced by the wholesale change in doctrine.

 

The original Christian Church would have considered doctrines like the trinity, OSAS, and sola fide to be heresy.  Their view of the afterlife, the teaching the Gospel to departed spirits, the degrees of salvation looks almost exactly LDS.  Like the Bible, they even predicted their impending apostasy.  Etc. Etc.

Edited November 22, 2013 by BCSpace

[changed]

If the Church leadership were to announce a MAJOR change to either doctrine or ordinance then:
other - If it was something thatbothered me, then I would pray about it until I recieved confirmation through the Holy Ghost


  When previous General authorities are recorded as teaching a doctrine that is no longer accepted
other - It is because different times call for different laws - the laws in the old testament were not the laws of the new testament, Moses was not commanded to build an ark - he lived in a different time, and was commanded in a different work.

Edited November 22, 2013 by changed