2 Missionary Questions

[Duncan]

1) What do you think about missionaries committing someone to baptism on the first appt.? (I think it's a BAD idea and I am skeptical the Holy Ghost would tell someone to do it in 95% of the times, call me crazy)

2) Do you think that sister missionaries can or should attend PEC mtg to just give their report? (I think they should attend)

Edited April 24, 2013 by Duncan

[ksfisher]

1) I Don't see a problem with someone being committed to baptism after the first lesson, but I would hope that the baptism date was a few weeks off to make sure the person is really committed to the church. In my area the missionaries make sure that the investigator attends church at least three times before their baptism.

2) Shouldn't the missionaries, male or female, be reporting to the ward mission leader who then reports to the PEC?

[Avatar4321]

1) I see no problem with it whatsoever. The Spirit didn't have any problem convincing people to be baptized on the Day of Pentecost. Nor any other times where people were converted after the first experience with the Spirit. John wasnt standing in the River Jordan telling people not to get baptized until they had a certain amount of lessons by him. if your skeptical, reread Elder Holland's talk

2) I've got no problem whatsoever with Bishops inviting whomever they are inspired to invite to PEC.

[filovirus]

On my mission I had some very powerful converts whom my companion and I committed to baptism during the first discussion. This was before the "Preach My Gospel" and we were still using the commitment pattern. It's been 15 years and many are still active. Of course many have gone off to obscurity, or at least I haven't kept in touch with them.

[Duncan]

1) I Don't see a problem with someone being committed to baptism after the first lesson, but I would hope that the baptism date was a few weeks off to make sure the person is really committed to the church. In my area the missionaries make sure that the investigator attends church at least three times before their baptism.

2) Shouldn't the missionaries, male or female, be reporting to the ward mission leader who then reports to the PEC?

in this mission the missionaries are attending ward council and if they are elders they also attend PEC-but you are right what a ward mission leader does in those meetings is something to wonder about, but we might be getting sisters in this ward, finally, and so I was wondering

[Duncan]

On my mission I had some very powerful converts whom my companion and I committed to baptism during the first discussion. This was before the "Preach My Gospel" and we were still using the commitment pattern. It's been 15 years and many are still active. Of course many have gone off to obscurity, or at least I haven't kept in touch with them.

same experience as me and same time frame but I too haven't really kept in touch

[Avatar4321]

same experience as me and same time frame but I too haven't really kept in touch

Then why be skeptical?

[Robert F. Smith]

2) Do you think that sister missionaries can or should attend PEC mtg to just give their report? (I think they should attend)

The sisters need to attend for the same reason that the elders attend, because they have crucial, first-hand information on investigators & less actives, and on ward assignments which they may have filled. The same info they go over in ward council meetings. Sister missionaries are a very special case.

[Judd]

It was standard that missionaries would attend PEC when I served in Ohio. Never considered the sister angle but yes, as missionaries I think they should attend PEC regardless of elder or sister.

I think committing to baptism on the first appointment as a blanket policy or standard is a bad idea, but this would vary significantly on where you're serving, who you're teaching, and the spirit of the lesson and commitment. I never did so on my mission genuinely, that I can recall.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Judd

[Duncan]

Then why be skeptical?

good point, well, I have only seen it worked out that the person got baptized and was active when I left but I haven't seen it done with much success since then when I have gone with the elders and this mission up until a few years ago had the worst retention the North America Central Area

[CV75]

1) What do you think about missionaries committing someone to baptism on the first appt.? (I think it's a BAD idea and I am skeptical the Holy Ghost would tell someone to do it in 95% of the times, call me crazy)

2) Do you think that sister missionaries can or should attend PEC mtg to just give their report? (I think they should attend)

1) I have no problem with it--at the very least it gives people something to think about, whether they decline or not. At the same time, if their mission president doesn't want them to take that approach, it is just as well.

2) I don't think giving reports is a good use of the PEC. This should be done offline between the Bishop/counselor and the quorum / auxiliary leader so that issues of importance can be focused on and discussed as a council. So I think the missionaries of any gender should give their report to the ward mission leader to bring up as appropriate to the PEC. And of course the ward mission leader is accessible to the missionaries to help them as much as they need him to.

[Tacenda]

I have a question, do other Christian faiths proselyte to people to join their specific church or just preach Christ and let them choose for themselves? Also, if that's true that they preach a belief in Christ only, aren't we somewhat like the Scientologists and Jehovah Witnesses? Is that why we're lumped in with them sometimes? I like that we preach Christ first and foremost, but if the person says sure they want to be a Christian but not LDS, what do the missionaries react with, they probably wish them well and let them go their way or do some urge them to join for salvation?

BTW, I don't know about missionaries asking for a commitment to baptism on the first visit. Seems like the recruitment I had with the Scientologists, where they nabbed me off the streets in SLC and had me come in for a questionaire or something on my way to a parking lot from work.

[Duncan]

1) I have no problem with it--at the very least it gives people something to think about, whether they decline or not. At the same time, if their mission president doesn't want them to take that approach, it is just as well.

2) I don't think giving reports is a good use of the PEC. This should be done offline between the Bishop/counselor and the quorum / auxiliary leader so that issues of importance can be focused on and discussed as a council. So I think the missionaries of any gender should give their report to the ward mission leader to bring up as appropriate to the PEC. And of course the ward mission leader is accessible to the missionaries to help them as much as they need him to.

if we actually get sisters then our ward will have 6 missionaries, 3 sets. Soin theory they each give a 5 minute report. It didn't always used to be that way, they would give their report to the WML and then he would pass it on to the ward council, pec etc.

[webbles]

1) What do you think about missionaries committing someone to baptism on the first appt.? (I think it's a BAD idea and I am skeptical the Holy Ghost would tell someone to do it in 95% of the times, call me crazy)

On my mission (in one of the Brazil missions), this was the way to figure out if the person was really interested or just being friendly.

[CV75]

if we actually get sisters then our ward will have 6 missionaries, 3 sets. Soin theory they each give a 5 minute report. It didn't always used to be that way, they would give their report to the WML and then he would pass it on to the ward council, pec etc.

I prefer the former approach personally, but perhaps your bishop has a reason to conduct the council that way. Is there a special circumstance in your ward that leads you to want to have the missionaries report to the whole PEC instead of just the WML?

Now that I think of it a few years ago the sister missionaries attended our PEC and made reports (we only had sister missionaries), and in retrospect it didn't matter to me one way or the other.

Edited April 24, 2013 by CV75

[bluebell]

As for question number 2, on my mission it really depended on the Bishop. I served in some wards where we attended PEC meetings, and served in other wards where sisters were not allowed. I even served in one ward where the bishop did not let us even attend ward council meetings-everything had to be done through the ward mission leader and we had no contact with the bishop at all (he never even had us over to his home for dinner).

[CASteinman]

1) What do you think about missionaries committing someone to baptism on the first appt.? (I think it's a BAD idea and I am skeptical the Holy Ghost would tell someone to do it in 95% of the times, call me crazy)

Under certain conditions, I think its not a bad idea. I would usually try to conditionally commit people on the first or second discussion. But note: I said conditionally. I wanted them to agree that if God communicates to them or they feel the Spirit motivating them to join that they would do that and not fight it. If I could not get them to agree to that, I would not return.

2) Do you think that sister missionaries can or should attend PEC mtg to just give their report? (I think they should attend)

I believe that if there is only one companionship in a ward, that companionship should attend. Otherwise it should be the district leader. This requires that the District Leader actually do a good job. If he's not up to the task then at a minimum all Senior Companions should attend.

[Duncan]

As for question number 2, on my mission it really depended on the Bishop. I served in some wards where we attended PEC meetings, and served in other wards where sisters were not allowed. I even served in one ward where the bishop did not let us even attend ward council meetings-everything had to be done through the ward mission leader and we had no contact with the bishop at all (he never even had us over to his home for dinner).

what?! oh man, that's SO crazy! the bishops I worked with generally favourble to us, at least to me anyways. the Mission President has said that they attend all ward presidency meetings (although not the auxilary pres. mtgs) but now that we might be getting sisters I wonder if that applies to PEC (mind you they can go and I can stay home!)

Edited April 24, 2013 by Duncan

[Duncan]

I prefer the former approach personally, but perhaps your bishop has a reason to conduct the council that way. Is there a special circumstance in your ward that leads you to want to have the missionaries report to the whole PEC instead of just the WML?

Now that I think of it a few years ago the sister missionaries attended our PEC and made reports (we only had sister missionaries), and in retrospect it didn't matter to me one way or the other.

the Mission President wants the missionaries at all ward activities, meetings etc. and if and I so hope we get them, the sister missionaries are assigned here would they be welcome at the PEC?, and yeah to me it makes sense they attend. The sisters and the elders don't need to stay longer then to give their reports

[Duncan]

On my mission (in one of the Brazil missions), this was the way to figure out if the person was really interested or just being friendly.

true!

[CV75]

the Mission President wants the missionaries at all ward activities, meetings etc. and if and I so hope we get them, the sister missionaries are assigned here would they be welcome at the PEC?, and yeah to me it makes sense they attend. The sisters and the elders don't need to stay longer then to give their reports

I see -- considering the purpose of the PEC, it is interesting that he wants them there just to give a brief report. Maybe trying to raise awareness. I'm sure the sisters would be welcome.

[cinepro]

1) What do you think about missionaries committing someone to baptism on the first appt.? (I think it's a BAD idea and I am skeptical the Holy Ghost would tell someone to do it in 95% of the times, call me crazy)

I'd be more concerned if the person were baptized before attending Church at least 3 or 4 times, and taking all the discussions and fully understanding the commitment they are making regarding Church attendance and service, chastity, tithing, Word of Wisdom, Sabbath-keeping etc.

[halconero]

1) I liked it for a number of reasons.

- Establishes their purpose

- Helps the investigator pray with real intent

- Makes teaching the lessons way easier

- Helps them see the purpose behind church (honestly some converts understand the "why" behind church attendance more than life long members)

- With practice can be done in a way that is inviting and bold, but not overbearing and preachy

- There's scriptural precedence in mainly the New Testament, the Book of Mormon, and, to a lesser extent, D&C.

2) Yeah