nosmelone Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 I have posted my answers to the 95 Theses Questions online through my blog. Like I said earlier it is mainly FAIR copy and paste because their answers to me were more than satisfactory on most issues. I have also included a few other websites including stuff from my blog or my own opinion. Here's the link to my blog. (you will need a to login to google.docs in order to view but its free to do) Enjoy!http://inthecavityofarock.blogspot.com/2013/02/answers-to-mormon-reformation.html 4
wanpaku Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 "Reflecting on City Creek, Bishop Burton said that if he'd known seven or eight years ago that 'we'd be facing the second-worst recessionary period in our history, I may have not suggested we proceed this quickly with the City Creek project. Yeah, too bad there was no one around who could prophecy, see, or reveal that the recession was going to happen (like Joseph of the Bible, so don't tell me that that's not what prophets are for!) 1
Kenngo1969 Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 This is actually very helpful. Like I said, I think that belief is a valid choice, and that people can have different interpretations of history and doctrine. Fair enough. I think that believing dispite knowing the controversial aspects is respectable. Denying that the controversial aspects exist or that they are just lies is less reputable, imho (granted, I'm just one anonymous internet poster!)God won't compel faith, belief, or devotion. He doesn't work that way. Are there aspects of the Church of Jesus Christ's doctrine or history about which I have questions? Sure there are! I hope to attend some interesting Firesides on the other side with Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Spencer W. Kimball (et al, perhaps). But doubt and faith are choices. I choose to believe, questions notwithstanding, because of the good fruit I believe the Church of Jesus Christ has borne and will continue to bear in my life. That choice isn't a passive thing, a "make-it-once-and-forget-about-it" thing. If I don't take active measures to stay in the harbor of faith, I will be "blown about with every wind of doctrine." I think that the fundamental disconnect between Luther and many members of this board is this:Luther says that his objectives are to 1. Educate members on controversial history and 2. Influence the church to OFFICIAL acknowledge and respond to these issues.Members of this forum say that 1. Luther is really just trying to tear down the church by pointing out kooky history that perhaps not all members are not aware of. 2. FAIR and other apologists have answered these things already, so we've been there, done that.If a person is determined to disbelieve regardless, nothing Luther does, or nothing FAIR does, is going to change that circumstance. I believe that FAIR, the Maxwell Institute, and similar enterprises can provide enough support for belief . . . if that's the choice the person makes. Having said that, I will allow that sometimes the best answer to a question which arises in an apologetic context is, "We don't know." (See Articles of Faith 1:9). I think if we can't agree on Luther's objectives, we don't have a prayer at actually discussing the validity or invalidity of his event (though it's clear that most of you will jump to it and say there is no merit, regardless of not understanding - or disbelieving - his stated objectives.I think it makes a difference whether Luther has an axe to grind, and, from my perspective, he clearly does. Again, if one is determined to doubt, nothing FAIR or anyone else does is likely to change that. The most that FAIR (and like-minded organizations and individuals) can do is persuade the persuadable. And there's nothing magical (other than its historical significance) about the number "95." From Luther's perspective (the modern Luther, that is), it could easily be 100, or 1,000, or 10,000. So, respectfully, if the Church of Jesus Christ (or any of its currently-faithful members) were to follow Luther down that Rabbit Hole, it/s-he/they will never get out. I think that's more what Luther's objective is than any kind of resolution regarding any question of history or doctrine. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted February 16, 2013 Posted February 16, 2013 Yeah, too bad there was no one around who could prophecy, see, or reveal that the recession was going to happen (like Joseph of the Bible, so don't tell me that that's not what prophets are for!)I suppose you could quibble about precisely what form the downtown regeneration efforts of the Church of Jesus Christ should take, and that's fine, but as I said, if you want to live in a slum, more power to you. You have no right to demand that anyone else do so.
wenglund Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 To Luther D:Theses 3. You portend to bring light to the Church, but yet you operate under the cover of darkness.Theses 4; Because you operate at night, the name you are hiding behind is misleading and should be changed to Luther Night Saints.Thanks, -Wade Englund-
wenglund Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 To Luther Night Saints:Theses 5#: Because you are hiding behind a pseudonym, it is questionable whether you truly are a saint. And, given that at least several of your supporters clearly aren't members of the Church, your name is misleading and should be changed to Luther Night Interloping Busy-bodies.Thanks, -Wade Englund-
wenglund Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) To Luther:Theses 6: You criticize the Church for allegedly "hiding" minor and irrelevant aspects of its history, yet because you operate under a pseudonym, your history is completely hidden.Theses 9: Not only is your history completely hidden, but you have adopted the history of a man who was an avowed racist and anti-Semite, and in his name ironically criticize the Church for some of its ancient racial policies.Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited February 17, 2013 by wenglund
Hamba Tuhan Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 So I arrived at the chapel a bit before 9:00 yesterday morning for priesthood leadership meeting and sadly found no 'theses' nailed to anything. So much for a global event. :-( 4
cdowis Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Spoken like a true Brighamite. ;-)And your snarky remark sounds very much like an antimormon. Not saying you are......Or how about: sounds like a man who was convinced that the multi-thousand strong Nauvoo Legion would come break him out of jail if it started getting too serious.As the head of the Nauvoo Legion, he was very silly, very careless not to leave any orders, no arrangements, no preparations for such a rescue. Can you give ANY indication that he had that expectation, or is this just another silly assertion with no basis in fact.There is no evidence that the Legion gathered together for such a raid, at any time -- before, during and after.Just pure fantasy, like a dedicated and faithful antimormon.I don't buy the whole self-sacrificing "I go like the lamb to the slaughter" thing.Yawn.Considering your unfounded assertion above, we would not expect anything else. Edited February 18, 2013 by cdowis 1
mfbukowski Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 OK you Utahns- What happened to the global reformation? Did anybody see anything??
Stargazer Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) To Luther:Theses 6: You criticize the Church for allegedly "hiding" minor and irrelevant aspects of its history, yet because you operate under a pseudonym, your history is completely hidden.Theses 9: Not only is your history completely hidden, but you have adopted the history of a man who was an avowed racist and anti-Semite, and in his name ironically criticize the Church for some of its ancient racial policies.Thanks, -Wade Englund-I've taken about as much of this as I can. No more.THESIS - singularTHESES - plural.Please don't do that again or I shall have to send the Grammar/Syntax Police after you. And they hurt. Edited February 18, 2013 by Stargazer 1
volgadon Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I've taken about as much of this as I can. No more.THESIS - singularTHESES - plural.Please don't do that again or I shall have to send the Grammar/Syntax Police after you. And they hurt.We hang people on commas. 3
Popular Post blackstrap Posted February 18, 2013 Popular Post Posted February 18, 2013 We hang people on commas.Better than being hung by the colon ! 6
TAO Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Better than being hung by the colon !Oh man, that's just gross XP. 2
Kemara Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) never mind. Edited February 18, 2013 by Kemara
Popular Post ERMD Posted February 18, 2013 Popular Post Posted February 18, 2013 "The Church is like a great caravan—organized, prepared, following an appointed course, with its captains of tens and captains of hundreds all in place.What does it matter if a few barking dogs snap at the heels of the weary travelers? Or that predators claim those few who fall by the way? The caravan moves on.Is there a ravine to cross, a miry mud hole to pull through, a steep grade to climb? So be it. The oxen are strong and the teamsters wise. The caravan moves on.Are there storms that rage along the way, floods that wash away the bridges, deserts to cross, and rivers to ford? Such is life in this fallen sphere. The caravan moves on.Ahead is the celestial city, the eternal Zion of our God, where all who maintain their position in the caravan shall find food and drink and rest. Thank God that the caravan moves on!" 6
Kenngo1969 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Do you have the citation for that, Doc? Thanks! P.S.: I gather that the "Reformation" was limited to the Salt Lake Area? I was the first person at my building Sunday morning (I unlocked it). I was way disappointed to not find the Theses! Edited February 18, 2013 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) And Ken said:Burp! Edited February 18, 2013 by Kenngo1969
nosmelone Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Nothing happened in my neck of the woods here in AZ at least not at any of the chapels in my area.
Gillebre Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Shades of Alma in the land of Helam: perhaps the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon them, and they missed their window of opportunity? 2
Kenngo1969 Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Shades of Alma in the land of Helam: perhaps the Lord caused a deep sleep to come upon them, and they missed their window of opportunity?Did someone entice them to become drunken?
Hamba Tuhan Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 For some reason, this reminds me of an experience I had whilst studying in America. A group which was in favour of legalising marijuana one Saturday staged a protest which started on campus and then was supposed to march itself to the state capitol building, about a dozen blocks away. But the protesters never actually arrived. The explanation that circulated was that apparently some got distracted, some stopped to eat, and some forgot why they were there in the first place. 3
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 For some reason, this reminds me of an experience I had whilst studying in America. A group which was in favour of legalising marijuana one Saturday staged a protest which started on campus and then was supposed to march itself to the state capitol building, about a dozen blocks away. But the protesters never actually arrived. The explanation that circulated was that apparently some got distracted, some stopped to eat, and some forgot why they were there in the first place.Did that really happen, or is this a joke?
Scott Lloyd Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Did someone entice them to become drunken? Sometimes, these things end up being all bluster and no substance.I recall back in the early 2000s, when the Church bought a block section of Main Street in downtown Salt Lake and converted the property into the plaza that's there now. The ACLU brought a lawsuit that temporarily prevented the Church from enforcing standards of behavior on its newly acquired and improved property. As an in-your-face gesture against the Church, there was a group that was going to stage a "wine-and-cheese-tasting party" on the new plaza.They never showed up either. Edited February 19, 2013 by Scott Lloyd
Hamba Tuhan Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Did that really happen, or is this a joke?The protest definitely happened. I was on campus that day and saw the beginning of it. And the local newspapers did report that the protesters never made it to the capitol. I think the rest was just what people started saying to be funny, but hey, maybe that's precisely what happened?
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