Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
smac97

"Mormon Reformation" Group To Post "95 Theses" On Lds Buildings On 2/16

Recommended Posts

PR Release:

American Fork, UT (PRWEB) February 12, 2013

A group of over 260 active and disaffected Mormons will be posting a copy of 95 LDS Theses onto the doors of their local churches around the world between the hours of 9:00 p.m. Saturday, February 16th, and 9:00 a.m. Sunday, February 17, 2013.

The project is organized by Mormon Reformation, a protest movement which aims to follow protestant reformer Martin Luther, who in 1517 posted a list of grievances on the door of the Castle Church of Wittenberg. Within two weeks, it was distributed by the press throughout Germany, exposed the corruption of the Catholic Church, and started what came to be known as the Protestant Reformation. Now, protesters claim, it is time for a Mormon Reformation.

Why Do Concerned Mormons Feel a Protest Is Necessary?

The protest is intended to be a peaceful, non-confrontational, and anonymous way to achieve the following two objectives:

1) Educating the membership of the church on controversial, revised, and hidden aspects of church doctrine, history, and fundamental claims, and

2) Influencing church leaders to officially address topics that they have dodged, dismissed, and covered up for too long.

...

“To make this event successful, I am enlisting the help of a wide variety of people,” says the protest’s organizer, Luther-day Saint.“ The group of protesters consists mainly of progressive, temple recommend-carrying members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as well as less active members and some members who have recently left the church.

There are now over 1,000 discussion forums, podcasts, and blogs in what is called the Exmormon community, which vary in focus and style from gently discussing pertinent issues to openly satirizing covered-up Mormon beliefs as well as the church's inauthenticity and institutionalized behavioral and information control.

...

According to Mormon Luther-day Saint, “Some people wish for nothing short of the complete destruction of the church. For them, my efforts don't go far enough. Others just want to tweak a thing or two about the church. Whatever your personal desires for the church, I hope that I can count on your support to achieve the above two objectives by sharing the 95 theses and our event through social media.”

...

Mormon Reformation is a group of active and disaffected Mormons who seek to create change within the church--not by attacking its beliefs or lay members, but by petitioning LDS leadership to openly address its covered-up history and dishonest claims.

Read the full story at http://www.prweb.com...web10412726.htm

Here is a PDF of the document to be posted.

Here is the group's blog.

A few thoughts:

1. The use of pseudonym ("Luther-day Saint"), together with a claimed-but-unsubstantiated-and-unidentified number of "260" participants, does not inspire confidence in the intentions of these people (assuming that there are multiple people involved - this announcement has a whiff of hoax about it).

2. The timing of the distribution of the flyers (at night, just before church meetings) and the means of distribution (apparently involving trespassing on church property) also does not inspire confidence.

3. A secretive group using pseudonyms, posting anonymous and unsigned anti-mormon literature on LDS Church buildings, in the middle of the night, by trespassing, and all the while complaining about lack of disclosure and honesty by the Church is ... ironic.

Thoughts?

-Smac

Edited by smac97

Share this post


Link to post

I have no issue with the issues they raise, as those issues are not a concern to me, I understand how the issues could be a concern to others.

A few thoughts:

1. The use of pseudonym ("Luther-day Saint"), together with a claimed-but-unsubstantiated-and-unidentified number of "260" participants, does not inspire confidence in the intentions of these people (assuming that there are multiple people involved - this announcement has a whiff of hoax about it).

I am sure the intention is to put the information out there to a greater audience base, which base will largely ignore it. Additionally, the intention is likely to get a bit of press time, that will likely fizzle.

2. The timing of the distribution of the flyers (at night, just before church meetings) and the means of distribution (apparently involving trespassing on church property) also does not inspire confidence.

You mean the same way Martin Luther trespassed to post his?

3. A secretive group using pseudonyms, posting anonymous and unsigned anti-mormon literature on LDS Church buildings, in the middle of the night, by trespassing, and all the while complaining about lack of disclosure and honesty by the Church is ... ironic.

-Smac

Tell us, pseudonym and anonymous "smac" what is your real name?

Share this post


Link to post

Tell us, pseudonym and anonymous "smac" what is your real name?

You do know that smac's real name (Spencer MacDonald) is listed in his bio, right? Just click on the "smac97" and you'll see it.

-Allen

Share this post


Link to post

You mean the same way Martin Luther trespassed to post his?

Well, trespass is trespass.

Also, my recollection is that Martin Luther did not post the theses secretively, or in the middle of the night, or while hiding behind a fake name. So no, this is not being done "the same way."

Tell us, pseudonym and anonymous "smac" what is your real name?

First, I am not trespassing in the middle of the night to post anti-LDS material on LDS buildings.

Second, I have posted my IRL name many times on this board (here it is again: Spencer Macdonald).

Thanks,

-Smac

Share this post


Link to post

You do know that smac's real name (Spencer MacDonald) is listed in his bio, right? Just click on the "smac97" and you'll see it.

-Allen

Shh! It's a secret!

Share this post


Link to post

I think what they're doing is great. It might make them feel a little better, and it will have absolutely no influence on anything in the Church. The first person who gets to the Church building that morning will take down the posting, and it will be like it never happened.

Hopefully this will satisfy them, and they won't escalate to something really drastic, like trying to read their grievances during fast and testimony meetings.... =@

Share this post


Link to post

Makes me long for the good old days of Moses in the desert where God would just have the earth eat up apostates. They say God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I think I spot the difference. The actions of those in the days of Moses might have worked. This is a pathetically sad little protest.

Maybe I should go to my church building early (walking distance) and see if we get one and if we do dispose of it without telling anyone about it.

Share this post


Link to post

nevermind

Edited by DavidB

Share this post


Link to post

With so many legitimate (albeit less serious) areas the Church could reform, why did this group pick issues that are either disproved anti-mormon talking point, or outright falsehoods?

Share this post


Link to post

This kinda makes me laugh...sorry. Hey more power to them, if that makes them feel good about themselves. Nothing with come of it.

I still find it fascinating how people out there attack and fight and against our church SO hard, while letting other religions do whatever they want and they could care less. Go figure.

It only increases my testimony of the church, because Satan fights it so forcefully, using every trick in the book, its gotta be true! :-)

Red

Share this post


Link to post

And you know this because you are prosecutor, judge and jury and you have the legal authority from the Church to make claims of trespass?

We can only hope that those states with castle doctrine avoid......."incidents". (Sound of gun cocking)

Share this post


Link to post

With so many legitimate (albeit less serious) areas the Church could reform, why did this group pick issues that are either disproved anti-mormon talking point, or outright falsehoods?

EXACTLY!! Same ol' same ol' repeated accusations that have gone around forever.... ***yawn***

Share this post


Link to post

As a matter of historical context, didn't Luther actually have 95 points he addressed?

Share this post


Link to post

And you know this because you are prosecutor, judge and jury and you have the legal authority from the Church to make claims of trespass?

I am fairly familiar with the law. Apart from the intended conduct easily falling into the definition of the tort of trespass, it may also constitute criminal trespass as well. See Utah Code sec. 76-6-206(2)(a).

Thanks,

-Smac

Share this post


Link to post

I am fairly familiar with the law. Apart from the intended conduct easily falling into the definition of the tort of trespass, it may also constitute criminal trespass as well. See Utah Code sec. 76-6-206(2)(a).

Thanks,

-Smac

how about due process and the presumption of innocence.

Share this post


Link to post

It sounds like they have genuine concerns rather than desire to harm the church through deceptive means. At lease some of their concerns are based on false premises and makes me wonder why they are not protesting the genocides perpetrated by Moses and Joshua or the murder of two less-than-full-tithe-payers by Peter. But if they feel these issues need to be addressed, I wish them success.

Share this post


Link to post

I actually was invited to their Facebook page. I attempted to discuss issues with some of their "issues" but the anti-Mormon crowd attacked. So, instead of having a well-thought out set of grievances, they have a bunch of anti-LDS issues, many of which have already been refuted.

I tried to explain to them that such points of history were very different than Martin Luther's questioning of current Catholic practices of indulgences and Inquisition. But they blew me off, thinking themselves of such importance that their secretive ploy could actually shake the church.

So, I'm not impressed. This effort will do little. I think there's a greater chance at having sisters wear pants to Church, or pray in General Conference (issues which actually mean something).

Share this post


Link to post

Here is a PDF of the document to be posted.

Here is the group's blog.

1. The use of pseudonym ("Luther-day Saint"), together with a claimed-but-unsubstantiated-and-unidentified number of "260" participants, does not inspire confidence in the intentions of these people (assuming that there are multiple people involved - this announcement has a whiff of hoax about it).

It isn't a hoax, unfortunately. This effort is just plain stupid and shows a serious lack of familiarity with the history of Luther and the origins of Protestantism

Share this post


Link to post

As a matter of historical context, didn't Luther actually have 95 points he addressed?

Not really. He had a few central points and used 95 statements to explore them.

http://www.spurgeon....ry/95theses.htm

So, unless this group is trying to get the Church to stop selling indulgences, they just look like complete tools.

Edited by sethpayne

Share this post


Link to post

And cowardly....Luther had the courage of his convictions everyone knew who had done it, no trying to hide his identity to avoid fallout:

From wiki...

On the eve of All Saint's Day, October 31, 1517, Luther posted the ninety-five theses, which he had composed in Latin, on the door of the Castle Church of Wittenberg, according to university custom.[4]

On the same day, Luther sent a hand-written copy, accompanied with honourable comments to the archbishop Albert of Mainz and Magdeburg, responsible for the practice of the indulgence sales, and to the bishop of Brandenburg, the superior of Luther. Within two weeks, copies of the Theses had spread throughout Germany; within two months throughout Europe.[5][6] It was not until January 1518 that Christoph von Scheurl and other friends of Luther translated the Ninety-Five Theses from Latin into German, printed, and widely copied them, making the controversy one of the first in history to be aided by the printing press.[7]

Share this post


Link to post

Not really. He had a few central points and used 95 statements to explore them.

http://www.spurgeon....ry/95theses.htm

So, unless this group is trying to get the Church to stop selling indulgences, they just look like complete tools.

It may just give the strugglers a bad name and have the opposite affect, hurt relationships possibly. For instance the very first one is JS using a stone in a hat to translate, I mentioned this story in a primary class recently when learning about the translation process. Now if the teacher sees this she'll wonder if I was introducing anti material in the classroom.

Share this post


Link to post

So, unless this group is trying to get the Church to stop selling indulgences, they just look like complete tools.

Without indulgences my weekend flings will have to end. Curse you, modern day Lutheran wannabes.

Share this post


Link to post

It sounds like they have genuine concerns rather than desire to harm the church through deceptive means.

Publishing PR articles? Pseudonyms? No real names given at all? Secretive, unlawful behavior at night?

I'm not willing to grant an assumption of good faith given these circumstances.

And they undoubtedly are attempting to harm the Church.

At lease some of their concerns are based on false premises and makes me wonder why they are not protesting the genocides perpetrated by Moses and Joshua or the murder of two less-than-full-tithe-payers by Peter. But if they feel these issues need to be addressed, I wish them success.

I hope they fail in their endeavors. This behavior is not in good faith.

Thanks,

-Smac

Share this post


Link to post

how about due process and the presumption of innocence.

Oh brother. This group is announcing what they plan to do. What's the point of a presumption of innocence, then?

And nobody has suggested that these folks be deprived of due process. Get real.

-Smac

Share this post


Link to post

Without indulgences my weekend flings will have to end. Curse you, modern day Lutheran wannabes.

We all know that you and the nursery kids have worked out a protection racket- if you don't get paid, they don't stop crying.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...