Word Of Wisdom Question

[Alan]

Why so certain?

Because beer is mentioned, and drunk, whereas barley water is not.

[Calm]

There is no mention of water or milk either. Are you suggesting these weren't present in Kirtland, Independence or Nauvoo?

[rongo]

Pero (Karo, in Germany), is a hot barley drink that is widely used by Mormons:

http://www.enjoybettercoffee.com/PERO-Coffee-s/111.htm

It smells like coffee, and tastes like it, too from what coffee drinkers have told me (I've never had coffee). I've never had Postum (now defunct), but coffee drinkers tell me that it tasted nothing like coffee. I love Pero/Karokaffee, especially with cream and sugar. Both the members and missionaries drank a lot of it on my mission.

My wife won't let me buy it and "bring it into our home," though. Avoid the appearance of evil, etc. She can't stand the smell.

It was nice to hav Karo/Pero for investigators facing the Word of Wisdom. A native German companion of mine insisted that simply drinking anything hot has a stimulant effect, and that the "caffeine factor" is an "emporer's new clothes effect" and is in people's minds. I actually think there's a lot of truth to that. I think that it's in people's heads when they claim that they can't function on all cylinders until they've had their coffee/Coke/Dr. Pepper.

[Alan]

Pero (Karo, in Germany), is a hot barley drink that is widely used by Mormons:

http://www.enjoybett...offee-s/111.htm

It smells like coffee, and tastes like it, too from what coffee drinkers have told me (I've never had coffee). I've never had Postum (now defunct), but coffee drinkers tell me that it tasted nothing like coffee. I love Pero/Karokaffee, especially with cream and sugar.

Caro is a hot drink. The WoW deals seperately with hot drinks.

[mfbukowski]

Once again, I spend some time doing something else away from my computer and a whole new interesting topic comes up here and I miss it until it's running out of steam. So I'm joining late yet again.

The WoW was never changed into a commandment. BY never actually did this, he just asked some members at a meeting he was speaking at to commit to living it if he would. It wasn't a general conference, it wasn't addressed to the whole church and was never presented to the church for a sustaining vote.

A tradition has grown up in the church that brother Brigham made it binding, but this is an urban myth. In fact, Brigham himself continued to use tobacco for several years following the above mentioned speech.

On the other side of the coin, it is wise to follow the counsel of the WoW, but it should be all of it. Very little, if any, meat for a start! Eating things in season, not just because they are in the shops etc.

We concentrate far too much on the don'ts and not nearly enough on the do's of the WoW.

Finally, (and apologies if someone has already made this point) the WoW appears to condone the drinking of beer. What else is a mild drink (as opposed to a strong drink) made with barley?

The bottom line is that it is on the temple recommend interview. All else become irrelevant.

[ERayR]

Finally, (and apologies if someone has already made this point) the WoW appears to condone the drinking of beer. What else is a mild drink (as opposed to a strong drink) made with barley?

Postum - Pero

[Alan]

The bottom line is that it is on the temple recommend interview. All else become irrelevant.

You're right, of course; although we would do well to remember that the temple recommend question simply asks us if we keep the word of wisdom. It does not ask us to interpret or define it. Therefore, if one is of the opinion that the WoW allows for the consumming of beer (a mild barley drink), there appears to be some wiggle room. It also appears it is ok to consume wine so long as you made it yourself!

In my view, we do have to be on our guard that "things" that are just tradition or cultural don't morph into commandments (and I repeat, the WoW is not a commandment, even though I and many others observe it as if it is). This can and does happen and was something which afflicted the Pharisees a great deal. You will remember that Jesus had no time for the Pharisees, even commenting that the harlots and publicans would find a place in heaven at their expense.

There are Pharisees in the church, of that there is no doubt. I have, unfortunately found myself in their company quite often (and I was once one of them I am ashamed to say). If we are not careful we can start to become infected with their poison. Some things that come to mind are:

Don't drink Coke.

Pay tithing on your gross.

Only wear a white shirt.

Don't wear trousers (for the girls).

When the brethren speak, the thinking has been done.......... the list goes on.

In my view we must be constantly on our guard.

[Tacenda]

You're right, of course; although we would do well to remember that the temple recommend question simply asks us if we keep the word of wisdom. It does not ask us to interpret or define it. Therefore, if one is of the opinion that the WoW allows for the consumming of beer (a mild barley drink), there appears to be some wiggle room. It also appears it is ok to consume wine so long as you made it yourself!

In my view, we do have to be on our guard that "things" that are just tradition or cultural don't morph into commandments (and I repeat, the WoW is not a commandment, even though I and many others observe it as if it is). This can and does happen and was something which afflicted the Pharisees a great deal. You will remember that Jesus had no time for the Pharisees, even commenting that the harlots and publicans would find a place in heaven at their expense.

There are Pharisees in the church, of that there is no doubt. I have, unfortunately found myself in their company quite often (and I was once one of them I am ashamed to say). If we are not careful we can start to become infected with their poison. Some things that come to mind are:

Don't drink Coke.

Pay tithing on your gross.

Only wear a white shirt.

Don't wear trousers (for the girls).

When the brethren speak, the thinking has been done.......... the list goes on.

In my view we must be constantly on our guard.

Heathen!

[rodheadlee]

You're right, of course; although we would do well to remember that the temple recommend question simply asks us if we keep the word of wisdom. It does not ask us to interpret or define it. Therefore, if one is of the opinion that the WoW allows for the consumming of beer (a mild barley drink), there appears to be some wiggle room. It also appears it is ok to consume wine so long as you made it yourself!

In my view, we do have to be on our guard that "things" that are just tradition or cultural don't morph into commandments (and I repeat, the WoW is not a commandment, even though I and many others observe it as if it is). This can and does happen and was something which afflicted the Pharisees a great deal. You will remember that Jesus had no time for the Pharisees, even commenting that the harlots and publicans would find a place in heaven at their expense.

There are Pharisees in the church, of that there is no doubt. I have, unfortunately found myself in their company quite often (and I was once one of them I am ashamed to say). If we are not careful we can start to become infected with their poison. Some things that come to mind are:

Don't drink Coke.

Pay tithing on your gross.

Only wear a white shirt.

Don't wear trousers (for the girls).

When the brethren speak, the thinking has been done.......... the list goes on.

In my view we must be constantly on our guard.

It would appear that Jesus Christ agrees with you.

Mark 7:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can ^adefile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that ^bdefile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that ^adefileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the ^aheart of men, proceed evil thoughts, ^badulteries, fornications, murders,

22 ^aThefts, ^bcovetousness, ^cwickedness, ^ddeceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these ^aevil things come from within, and ^bdefile the man.

Edited January 24, 2013 by rodheadlee

[thesometimesaint]

I'm quite sure there was no barley water in Kirtland, Independence or Nauvoo. Plenty of beer though. There was even a brewery, as there was in Salt Lake City. Joseph is known to drink beer, well after the WoW revelation.

Now, it wouldn't have been as alcoholic as it is nowadays (up tp 8%) but it was beer nevertheless.

Barley water is ancient, and was well known as a tonic in early America history. It is entirely possible that JS drank beer, but if he did I'd like to know the source of that knowledge. We do know that he drank wine however.

[cdowis]

It would appear that Jesus Christ agrees with you.

Mark 7:

etc

This was taught in a very specific context.

Anyway, it is not the cup of coffee that will keep up out of the CK, but disobedience of the commandments.

[Storm Rider]

It is beyond question that Joseph drank alcohol even after he received the Word of Wisdom. It is rather....disingenuous to say anything to the contrary. Some LDS reject any potential for such a thing to have occurred, but this is a position not supported by historical fact. It always surprises me how virulently some LDS reject such historical positions; they so value the Word of Wisdom that anything that does not support its absolute truth is rejected completely without any further consideration. As I have said often on this board, our Church is built on the strength of revelation. Any time the Church invents policy without any revelation to support it, we open wide the door and invite with open arms the doctrines of men to pose as the teachings of God. When leaders support policies without any clear revelation to support such positions we repeat the foolish traditions of our forefathers and no correction is introduced. What is worse is that members are left to assume that such policies much be acceptable to the Lord because the current prophet does not counter or clarify by new revelation the validity of teachings. Before many years are passed then an actual revelation is demanded to change what a policy that can only be deducted to be a doctrine of man. I hate this fact; I hate that I have to deal with it; I hate that any contrary position to the current position of the Church is only assumed to be that I must love to drink coffee, tea, drink alcohol, or use tobacco or that my pride has gotten in the way of simple obedience. I hate that the temple worthiness of individuals is determined by a policy built on the teachings of man. I can only believe that obedience is demanded of our members and woe be to each and every leader that has blindly supported and propagated the teachings of man. We live and die as a Church on revelation and the direct rule of God; anything less than that is not the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Walden]

The bottom line is that it is on the temple recommend interview. All else become irrelevant.

What I find interesting is that the focus, at least when I was in the LDS church, was always on just a portion of the WoW and not the entire WoW. I would think it just as beneficial to eat meat sparingly and maintain a diet high in grain and fruits, as mentioned in the WoW, as it is to abstain from toxins such as alcohol and tobacco.

Funny, I never knew anyone denied a temple recommend for eating too much meat, but have a glass of wine and suddenly one is breaking the Word of Wisdom and is therefore not eligible for a temple recommend.

Why is it that only the alcohol, tobacco and coffee aspects are considered doctrine now in the LDS church, while the remainder of the Word of Wisdom is all but ignored?

[go_utes01]

You're right, of course; although we would do well to remember that the temple recommend question simply asks us if we keep the word of wisdom. It does not ask us to interpret or define it. Therefore, if one is of the opinion that the WoW allows for the consumming of beer (a mild barley drink), there appears to be some wiggle room. It also appears it is ok to consume wine so long as you made it yourself!

In my view, we do have to be on our guard that "things" that are just tradition or cultural don't morph into commandments (and I repeat, the WoW is not a commandment, even though I and many others observe it as if it is). This can and does happen and was something which afflicted the Pharisees a great deal. You will remember that Jesus had no time for the Pharisees, even commenting that the harlots and publicans would find a place in heaven at their expense.

There are Pharisees in the church, of that there is no doubt. I have, unfortunately found myself in their company quite often (and I was once one of them I am ashamed to say). If we are not careful we can start to become infected with their poison. Some things that come to mind are:

Don't drink Coke.

Pay tithing on your gross.

Only wear a white shirt.

Don't wear trousers (for the girls).

When the brethren speak, the thinking has been done.......... the list goes on.

In my view we must be constantly on our guard.

This is especially dangerous if a person is acting pharasitical in order to promote their own righteousness (self-righteousness) as a means of judging (unrighteously) others.

[T-Shirt]

What I find interesting is that the focus, at least when I was in the LDS church, was always on just a portion of the WoW and not the entire WoW. I would think it just as beneficial to eat meat sparingly and maintain a diet high in grain and fruits, as mentioned in the WoW, as it is to abstain from toxins such as alcohol and tobacco.

Can you point out where, in Section 89, we are instructed to maintain a diet high in grain and fruit?

Funny, I never knew anyone denied a temple recommend for eating too much meat, but have a glass of wine and suddenly one is breaking the Word of Wisdom and is therefore not eligible for a temple recommend.

How would you propose the Church define, "Too much meat"?

Why is it that only the alcohol, tobacco and coffee aspects are considered doctrine now in the LDS church, while the remainder of the Word of Wisdom is all but ignored?

What specifics are given in Section 89 that leads you to believe that the Church should police the diet of it's members? How would you propose this be done?

[MichaelH]

Humanure: Eating meat and Poop:

Eating animals is unhealthy not only because of the fact that it is unhealthy for our bodies but that it destroys our atmosphere through pollution. American mass production farm factories and corporations are destructive forces literally destroying our ecosystem and our precious physical health. According to one researcher this, “became a problem only when Americans decided [that] we wanted to eat more meat than any other culture in history and [to] pay historically little for it. (Johnathan Foer on eating animals.) Foer does not argue whether or not it is wrong to eat meat. He argues against the American people demanding so much of it that it is destroying our health. In the process the factories and corporations are trying to keep up with the high demand and by doing so is wrecking havoc on our lives and our planets ecosystem. Because of the high demand of meat, corporations that produce the meat have become exceedingly productive, wealthy and destructive. We are talking about a, “$140 billion-plus a year industry that occupies nearly a third of the land on the planet, shapes ocean ecosystems, and may well determine the earth’s climate." (Foer) The University of Chicago did a research which showed that factory produced farmed animals, “contribute more to climate change than transport.” (Foer) The United Nations researched and found that, “raising animals for food… is one of the top two or three contributors to the most serious environmental problems.” One of the largest contributors to these environmental problems is due to the excessive and overabundance of what Foer calls, “Pieces of Poop."(Foer)

With all the animals that are needed to produce the mass amounts of meat, you will find mass amounts of animal poop. Among this animal poop, are large quantities of, “whatever will fit through the slatted floors of the factory farm buildings…these include stillborn piglets, afterbirths, dead piglets, vomit, blood, urine… hair, pus and even body parts.”(Foer) We are talking about so much animal poop that the companies literally built man-made crap lakes, “as deep as 30 feet,”(Foer) and as large as, “120,000 square feet – as much surface area as the largest casinos in Las Vegas." (Foer) It is even more devastating when you factor in that, “each hog produces two to four times as much waste as a person.”(Foer) Foer wants us to imagine this humorously on a larger scale.“Imagine if every man, woman and child in every city and town in all of California and all of Texas crapped and pissed in a huge open-air pit for a day. Now imagine that they… do this… all year round in perpetuity.” Not only is this a large amount of crap but it is what’s in the crap that is so horrible. A Rolling Stone article researched and discovered that the crap found in these factories and crap lakes have devastating chemicals that are affecting those who live in these areas. They found,“ammonia, methane, hydrogen sulfide, carbon monoxide, cyanide, phosphorus, nitrates… heavy metals… salmonella, cryptosporidium, streptococci and girardia,”(Foer) all causing nearby communities, “sore throats, head-aches, coughing, runny noses, diarrhea…depression, anger and fatigue.”(Foer)

I have uploaded a video to share the safest way to get your food. First you must be a vegetarian and second you must go to the source where the nutrients are most potent: PLEASE WATCH THE HOW TO VIDEO HERE:

[thesometimesaint]

What I find interesting is that the focus, at least when I was in the LDS church, was always on just a portion of the WoW and not the entire WoW. I would think it just as beneficial to eat meat sparingly and maintain a diet high in grain and fruits, as mentioned in the WoW, as it is to abstain from toxins such as alcohol and tobacco.

Funny, I never knew anyone denied a temple recommend for eating too much meat, but have a glass of wine and suddenly one is breaking the Word of Wisdom and is therefore not eligible for a temple recommend.

Why is it that only the alcohol, tobacco and coffee aspects are considered doctrine now in the LDS church, while the remainder of the Word of Wisdom is all but ignored?

It is all doctrine. Americans would be in better physical health if they limited the amount of meat they ate. But it is rather fallacious to say that if we can eat meat we should also be able to drink alcohol and/or smoke tobacco. When we have specifically covenanted not to. Prior to Paul Jews and Christians alike abstained from pork and shell fish. The Lord holds us accountable for the covenants we make.

Under doctors orders alcohol is used with skill to alleviate pain and control the side effects of some diseases. It is not a good idea to go to the Temple sick, especially with a communicable disease. But your Temple Recommend won't be pulled because of it.

Edited January 24, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[Walden]

Can you point out where, in Section 89, we are instructed to maintain a diet high in grain and fruit?

How would you propose the Church define, "Too much meat"?

What specifics are given in Section 89 that leads you to believe that the Church should police the diet of it's members? How would you propose this be done?

Can you point out where, in Section 89, we are instructed to maintain a diet high in grain and fruit?.....I would interpret verses 10-11 and 16 as pointing to the prudence of consuming grains and fruit.

How would you propose the Church define, "Too much meat"?.....by the definition provided in verses 12 and 13, which read, "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly......And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." Simple definition: if you are eating meat in times other than winter, or cold or famine, then it is specifically stated that this does not please the lord.

What specifics are given in Section 89 that leads you to believe that the Church should police the diet of it's members? How would you propose this be done? The church does police the diet of it's members.....are not alcohol and coffee part of one's diet for those who choose to consume? As far as policing a "healthy diet" see my answer above regarding meat consumption and the specified times that the lord revealed are appropriate for meat consumption.

From an Ensign article by Lora Beth Larson titled "The Do's in the Word of Wisdom" (found on LDS.org)....

However, we are admonished to use meat sparingly. This caution is certainly understandable considering how heavily nineteenth-century Americans relied on meat when the Word of Wisdom was given. But even in our day of more balanced diets, we are aware of some problems when the meat intake is very high, as advocated by some dieters or by athletes who do not understand muscle physiology.......When meat makes up the main part of our food intake, we crowd out other foods and, consequently, their nutrients. Meats are also sources of fat, primarily saturated fat, and cholesterol. People who need to cut down their total calories may need to cut down on the total amount of fat in their diet. Individuals who have some of the risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease may need to limit their intake of saturated fat and cholesterol as well as total fat and calories.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Walden

[mfbukowski]

What I find interesting is that the focus, at least when I was in the LDS church, was always on just a portion of the WoW and not the entire WoW. I would think it just as beneficial to eat meat sparingly and maintain a diet high in grain and fruits, as mentioned in the WoW, as it is to abstain from toxins such as alcohol and tobacco.

Funny, I never knew anyone denied a temple recommend for eating too much meat, but have a glass of wine and suddenly one is breaking the Word of Wisdom and is therefore not eligible for a temple recommend.

Why is it that only the alcohol, tobacco and coffee aspects are considered doctrine now in the LDS church, while the remainder of the Word of Wisdom is all but ignored?

Everything, even science, involves interpretation to some degree or other. It's a continuum. Physicists look at data then interpret it, using measurements which arguably change the whole character of the data itself.

The Copenhagen interpretation is one of the earliest and most commonly taught interpretations of quantum mechanics.^[1] It holds that quantum mechanics does not yield a description of an objective reality but deals only with probabilities of observing, or measuring, various aspects of energy quanta, entities which fit neither the classical idea of particles nor the classical idea of waves. According to the interpretation, the act of measurement causes the set of probabilities to immediately and randomly assume only one of the possible values. This feature of the mathematics is known as wavefunction collapse. The essential concepts of the interpretation were devised by Niels Bohr, Werner Heisenberg and others in the years 1924–27.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_interpretation

And yet physicists regard social scientists as "mushy" scientists because their data requires more interpretation than theirs.

Look at Constitutional law. You have the constitution, and then you have years and years and pages and pages of interpretation. And then farther out still are religious commandments- interpreted and re-interpreted for years and years.

You aren't going to escape the problems of interpretation. There is no such thing as a verbal description which gets ever detail of everything we can experience about anything. Even expecting to find such precision in language is folly.

The trick is to discover that fact and learn to live with it. It's all words- every thought in every head, at least when communicated, comes down to words. And words are ambiguous.

Toleration of ambiguity is part of growing up. http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~rapaport/perry.positions.html

[mfbukowski]

Humanure: Eating meat and Poop:

Eating animals is unhealthy not only because of the fact that it is unhealthy for our bodies but that it destroys our atmosphere through pollution. American mass production farm factories and corporations are destructive forces literally destroying our ecosystem and our precious physical health. According to one researcher this, “became a problem only when Americans decided [that] we wanted to eat more meat than any other culture in history and [to] pay historically little for it. (Johnathan Foer on eating animals.) Foer does not argue whether or not it is wrong to eat meat. He argues against the American people demanding so much of it that it is destroying our health. In the process the factories and corporations are trying to keep up with the high demand and by doing so is wrecking havoc on our lives and our planets ecosystem. Because of the high demand of meat, corporations that produce the meat have become exceedingly productive, wealthy and destructive. We are talking about a, “$140 billion-plus a year industry that occupies nearly a third of the land on the planet, shapes ocean ecosystems, and may well determine the earth’s climate." (Foer) The University of Chicago did a research which showed that factory produced farmed animals, “contribute more to climate change than transport.” (Foer) The United Nations researched and found that, “raising animals for food… is one of the top two or three contributors to the most serious environmental problems.” One of the largest contributors to these environmental problems is due to the excessive and overabundance of what Foer calls, “Pieces of Poop."(Foer)

With all the animals that are needed to produce the mass amounts of meat, you will find mass amounts of animal poop. Among this animal poop, are large quantities of, “whatever will fit through the slatted floors of the factory farm buildings…these include stillborn piglets, afterbirths, dead piglets, vomit, blood, urine… hair, pus and even body parts.”(Foer) We are talking about so much animal poop that the companies literally built man-made crap lakes, “as deep as 30 feet,”(Foer) and as large as, “120,000 square feet – as much surface area as the largest casinos in Las Vegas." (Foer) It is even more devastating when you factor in that, “each hog produces two to four times as much waste as a person.”(Foer) Foer wants us to imagine this humorously on a larger scale.“Imagine if every man, woman and child in every city and town in all of California and all of Texas crapped and pissed in a huge open-air pit for a day. Now imagine that they… do this… all year round in perpetuity.” Not only is this a large amount of crap but it is what’s in the crap that is so horrible. A Rolling Stone article researched and discovered that the crap found in these factories and crap lakes have devastating chemicals that are affecting those who live in these areas. They found,“ammonia, methane, hydrogen sulfide, carbon monoxide, cyanide, phosphorus, nitrates… heavy metals… salmonella, cryptosporidium, streptococci and girardia,”(Foer) all causing nearby communities, “sore throats, head-aches, coughing, runny noses, diarrhea…depression, anger and fatigue.”(Foer)

I have uploaded a video to share the safest way to get your food. First you must be a vegetarian and second you must go to the source where the nutrients are most potent: PLEASE WATCH THE HOW TO VIDEO HERE:

Ummmm. Tasty!

[CV75]

What I find interesting is that the focus, at least when I was in the LDS church, was always on just a portion of the WoW and not the entire WoW. I would think it just as beneficial to eat meat sparingly and maintain a diet high in grain and fruits, as mentioned in the WoW, as it is to abstain from toxins such as alcohol and tobacco.

Funny, I never knew anyone denied a temple recommend for eating too much meat, but have a glass of wine and suddenly one is breaking the Word of Wisdom and is therefore not eligible for a temple recommend.

Why is it that only the alcohol, tobacco and coffee aspects are considered doctrine now in the LDS church, while the remainder of the Word of Wisdom is all but ignored?

For some it is easy to confuse the spirit of the Word of Wisdom (where one kind of discernment is operative) with the decision to issue a recommend (where another kind of discernment may be operative) with official interpretations or either (where a third kind of discernment is operative). None of these three conclusions is necessarily complete doctrine or biding covenant. Additionally, LDS believe he Holy Spirit can also guide people in these three areas, and not necessarily identically or in lock-step with each other.

I always hear about the consumption of meat in connection with lessons on the Word of Wisdom. I think the alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks get the most attention because they (more so the first two) are acknowledged to produce the most collateral damage and the exception for their use tends to require the counsel, advice and administration of a third party, subject matter expert ("to be used with judgment and skill.').

Edited January 24, 2013 by CV75

[Stargazer]

You're right, of course; although we would do well to remember that the temple recommend question simply asks us if we keep the word of wisdom. It does not ask us to interpret or define it. Therefore, if one is of the opinion that the WoW allows for the consumming of beer (a mild barley drink), there appears to be some wiggle room. It also appears it is ok to consume wine so long as you made it yourself!

In my view, we do have to be on our guard that "things" that are just tradition or cultural don't morph into commandments (and I repeat, the WoW is not a commandment, even though I and many others observe it as if it is). This can and does happen and was something which afflicted the Pharisees a great deal. You will remember that Jesus had no time for the Pharisees, even commenting that the harlots and publicans would find a place in heaven at their expense.

There are Pharisees in the church, of that there is no doubt. I have, unfortunately found myself in their company quite often (and I was once one of them I am ashamed to say). If we are not careful we can start to become infected with their poison. Some things that come to mind are:

Don't drink Coke.

Pay tithing on your gross.

Only wear a white shirt.

Don't wear trousers (for the girls).

When the brethren speak, the thinking has been done.......... the list goes on.

In my view we must be constantly on our guard.

Your posts have been annoying me of late, and it's gotten to the point that whenever I see that beautiful Union Flag you use as your avatar I say to myself "Here he goes again". But with this one post you have neutralized all the annoyances thus far! Thanks.

I have been at war with Mormon Phariseeism for years, and it heartens me to read what you have written here.

[Stargazer]

Humanure: Eating meat and Poop:

Eating animals is unhealthy not only because of the fact that it is unhealthy for our bodies but that it destroys our atmosphere through pollution. American mass production farm factories and corporations are destructive forces literally destroying our ecosystem and our precious physical health.

And yet the forbidding of the eating of meat is one of the signs of apostasy.

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking alies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

And the idea that it is unhealthy to our bodies? Poppycock. Before the rise of agriculture, meat was an important staple of most human cultures. When it became possible to produce sufficient protein through grains, then the need for meat lessened, but we were created to be omnivores.

And what will you say about the Inuit? With very little vegetable matter available to them, their diet consisted primarily of meat and fish, and especially fat was an important part of their diet. Yet they were not dropping like flies from cholesterol.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Stargazer

[MichaelH]

And yet the forbidding of the eating of meat is one of the signs of apostasy.

And the idea that it is unhealthy to our bodies? Poppycock. Before the rise of agriculture, meat was an important staple of most human cultures. When it became possible to produce sufficient protein through grains, then the need for meat lessened, but we were created to be omnivores.

And what will you say about the Inuit? With very little vegetable matter available to them, their diet consisted primarily of meat and fish, and especially fat was an important part of their diet. Yet they were not dropping like flies from cholesterol.

I agree with you

[BlueDreams]

And the idea that it is unhealthy to our bodies? Poppycock. Before the rise of agriculture, meat was an important staple of most human cultures. When it became possible to produce sufficient protein through grains, then the need for meat lessened, but we were created to be omnivores.

And what will you say about the Inuit? With very little vegetable matter available to them, their diet consisted primarily of meat and fish, and especially fat was an important part of their diet. Yet they were not dropping like flies from cholesterol.

Though I disagree with Michael on approach and such....I'm also a sucker for accuracy. From what I've read, before the rise of agriculture meat was still more versatile than described. Their diet would depend on where they lived and they weren't exactly known for their longevity. So if you're going for health I wouldn't follow them.

Likewise, the inuit have a shortened lifespan by about a decade. And they do show some of the average signs expected from high meat diets (mainly, cancers). So they're not "dropping like flies." But they're not exactly the Pennacle of health either.

The populations that are most healthy in the world generally follow similar trends in diet as well: fewer calories, largely plant/grain based diets, few processed foods and sugars, very very little meat consumption...with what meat that is consumed heavier on fish or poultry. In other words, they follow the WoW eating advice very well.

In large amounts (ie. the way most americans eat it) meat is unhealthy...or at least decreases life expectancy and increases likelihood of various diseases (CVD and cancers mainly). It is what it is.

I do agree with your first statement though.

With luv,

Bd

Edited January 27, 2013 by BlueDreams