Word Of Wisdom Question

[treehugger]

The only thing I have heard about WOW applying to everyone in the Chruch is a Prophets disappointment that Utah voted to repeal Prohibition in the United States.

[rodheadlee]

Do we have the words of the prophet that made the WOW into a commandment available to read? Being a second class citizen of ZIon has certainly humbled me. I'd like to try harder to quit smoking.

[thesometimesaint]

rodheadlee:

You are NOT a secoind class citizen in Zion. You are a beloved man of God that has a problem with tobacco. The Lord knows your efforts and wants you to succeed. Hard though it is KEEP trying.

[Mark Beesley]

Do we have the words of the prophet that made the WOW into a commandment available to read? Being a second class citizen of ZIon has certainly humbled me. I'd like to try harder to quit smoking.

As early as September 9, 1851, President Brigham Young, before a conference of the Church, put a motion to the congregation that they discontinue the use of tea, coffee, tobacco, and whiskey. The motion was carried unanimously. (Millennial Star 14:35.) In the August 1867 conference, President Young referred to the last conference when the Lord told him by the Holy Spirit to call upon the saints to observe the Word of Wisdom, and that they who did not observe it would increase in the spirit of the world and become darkened in mind. (Journal of Discourses 12:117.)

President George A. Smith, in 1871, said that a person loses the Spirit and grows cold in his religion when he does not keep the Word of Wisdom. (Ibid., 14:212.) In the October 1880 general conference the membership unanimously voted to accept the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants as binding upon the Church. The First Presidency composed of President Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., and David O. McKay, in the October conference 1942, said:

. . . we reinvoke obedience to God's law of health given us by God Himself.

. . . We urge the Saints to quit trifling with this law and so to live it that we may claim its promises. (Improvement Era, November 1942, p. 687.)

Roy W. Doxey, Doctrine and Covenants Speaks, vol. 2, p. 148

[ERayR]

Seriously? I thought ordinances were eternal, unchanging, and required for a given blessing.

The answers while correct are very terse and do not cover any of the detail. However, they give all the information a trolling question deserves.

Edited May 3, 2012 by ERayR

[ERayR]

Books have been written about the profundity of the Mormon temple ritual.

Yes but one must read them with some degree of understanding of those rituals.

[mfbukowski]

Books have been written about the profundity of the Mormon temple ritual.

What is this supposed to mean anyway?

Books have been written about Antarctica too. I suppose we could make a list of every kind of book ever written, but what does this have to do with the thread?

[volgadon]

rodheadlee:

You are NOT a secoind class citizen in Zion. You are a beloved man of God that has a problem with tobacco. The Lord knows your efforts and wants you to succeed. Hard though it is KEEP trying.

Quoted for truth.

[volgadon]

What is this supposed to mean anyway?

Books have been written about Antarctica too. I suppose we could make a list of every kind of book ever written, but what does this have to do with the thread?

Here is the Reader's Digest version: Dodging the question.

Edited May 3, 2012 by volgadon

[DWhitmer]

References, please.

Joseph Smith Jr. - Prophet

"And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands." (Joseph Smith Translation of Gen. 9.5)

Hyrum Smith

"let them be sparing of the life of animals; it is pleasing saith the Lord that flesh be used only in times of winter, or of famine - and why to be used in famine? Because all domesticated animals would naturally die, and may as well be made use of by man, as not." (Times and Seasons 3:799-801)

[We also know from the historical record that there were a number of brethren very close to the prophet such as Fredrick G. Williams, Thomas B. Marsh and Willard Richards, who were of the Samuel Thomson School of Healing. Which school endorsed the use of herbs instead of medicines and the abstinence of alcohol, tobacco, tea, coffee, stimulants and excessive meat eating. (Paul H. Peterson, BYU Thesis, An Historical Analysis of the Word of Wisdom, Aug. 1972; Bush, p. 92)]

Joseph F. Smith - Prophet

Joseph F. Smith was the son of Hyrum Smith.

"I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he 'needs' them for food…I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong, and I have been surprised at prominent men whom I have seen whose souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood. They go off hunting deer, antelope, elk, anything they can find, and what for? "Just for the fun of it!' I am a firm believer…in the simple words of one of the poets 'Take not away the life you cannot give, for all things have an equal right to live." (Joseph F. Smith, "The Destruction of Animal Life," Juvenile Instructor, 48:309)

"The unnecessary destruction of life is a distinct spiritual loss to the human family. Men cannot worship the Creator and look with careless indifference upon the creation. The love of all life helps man to the enjoyment of a better life. It exalts the spiritual nature of those in need of divine favor…love of nature is akin to the love of God, the two are inseparable." (Gerald Jones, Concern for Animals as Manifest in Five American Churches, PhD Diss., BYU, 1972, p. 107-8; Juvenile Instructor April, 1918)

Joseph Fielding Smith - Prophet

He is one of the sons of Joseph F. Smith and grandson of Hyrum Smith.

"My husband doesn't eat meat. We eat lots of fruits and vegetables." (ERA 73:59, April, 1970)

"President Joseph Fielding Smith is said to have a 'disdain of meat and love of vegetables.'" (BYU Daily Universe, May 6, 1971, p.1)

See also the complete article "Is It a Sin To Kill Wantonly?" (ERA, Aug. 1961)

David A. Smith - Presiding Bishopric

Younger brother of Joseph Fielding Smith, grandson of Hyrum Smith.

"Every man in this building yesterday morning was, I believe, an observer of the Word of Wisdom as far as it pertains to the use of wine, strong drink, and tobacco…but I am not so sure that we all understand this revelation in its reference to other matters of equal importance…stop eating meat!" (CR April 1930, p. 83)

George Albert Smith - Prophet

George was the cousin of Joseph Fielding Smith.

"In the summer he eats no meat, and even in the winter months he eats very little." (ERA Apr. 1950, p.287)

Brigham Young - Prophet

"Mothers, keep the children from eating meat; and let them eat vegetables that are fully matured, not unripe, and bread that is well baked, not soft." (BYJD 8:63)

"We have had this Word of Wisdom thirty-five years last February, and the whole people have not yet learned to observe it after the true spirit and meaning of it…Flesh should be used sparingly, in famine and in cold." (JD 12:209)

Lorenzo Snow - Prophet

"While moving slowly forward in pursuit of something to kill, my mind was arrested with the reflection on the nature of my pursuit - that of amusing myself by giving pain and death to harmless, innocent creatures that perhaps had as much right to life and enjoyment as myself. I realized that such indulgence was without any justification, and feeling condemned, I laid my gun on my shoulder, and returned home, and from that time to this have felt no inclination for that murderous amusement." (Thomas C. Romney, The Life of Lorenzo Snow, p.35)

"…special attention to that part which relates to the use of meat, which he considered just as strong as that which relates to the use of liquors and hot drinks.' Apostle Snow 'was convinced that the killing of animals when unnecessary was wrong and sinful, and that it was not right to neglect one part of the Word of Wisdom and be too strenuous in regard to other parts." (Journal History, 5 May 1893, p. 2-3)

Heber J. Grant - Prophet

"I think that another reason I have very splendid strength for an old man is that during the years we have had a cafeteria in the Utah Hotel I have not, with the exception of not more than a dozen times, ordered meat of any kind…I have endeavored to live the Word of Wisdom, and that in my opinion, is one reason for my good health." (CR April 1937, p. 15)

David O. McKay - Prophet

"While in his youth, David O. McKay's dog killed a badger and President McKay said: 'I carried the dead animal back to father. His face fell as I showed him the animal, and he said, "Why did you let your dog kill it? It is a harmless creature, and there was no need to take its life. Who know, it may even have some babies which now will starve to death in their holes!" I have never needlessly killed an animal since that time!" (Llewelyn R. McKay, Home Memories of President David O. McKay, p.30)

"A true Latter-day Saint is kind to animals, is kind to every created thing, for God created all." (CR, Oct. 1951)

Harold B. Lee - Prophet

"But although God has ordained animals for the use of man…man must not waste animal life. To kill when not necessary, is a sin akin to murder…a tyrant who has learned nothing but selfishness and cruelty can hope for no position of trust hereafter in the kingdom of the Father." (Joseph Fielding, Harold B. Lee, Marion G. Romney, revised The Doctrine and Covenants Commentary, originally written by Hyrum M. Smith and Janne M. Sjodahl, p. 286)

Spencer W. Kimball - Prophet

President Kimball has carried on the legacy of the Smith family with his many talks respecting animal life. Still to this day, his General Conference talk regarding the needless killing of birds is cited often by other writers and speakers. He begins by citing a primary song:

"I remember that my predecessor, President Joseph Fielding Smith, was a protector of these feathered and other wild life creatures."

"Now, I also would like to add some of my feelings concerning the unnecessary shedding of blood and destruction of life. I think that every soul should be impressed by the sentiments that have been expressed here by the prophets."

"And not less with reference to the killing of innocent birds is the wildlife of our country that live upon the vermin that are indeed enemies to the farmer and to mankind. It is not only wicked to destroy them, it is a shame, in my opinion. I think that this principle should extend not only to the bird life but to the life of all animals. "

"Don't kill the little birds

That sing on bush and tree,

All thro' the summer days,

Their sweetest melody."

(Deseret Songs, 1909, no. 163)

"Take not away the life you cannot give, for all things have an equal right to live." (Spencer W. Kimball, "Fundamental Principles to Ponder and Live," Ensign, 1978)

"I still don't eat very much meat." (CR, April 1978)

George F. Richards - Apostle

"We are not asked now…to lay down our lives to show our obedience to the Lord, and our worthiness to be his disciples, but we are asked by the Lord to abstain from…the use of meats to excess. This is simple requirement. How can we hope to lay down our lives, how can we claim to be willing to do so, while our lives and actions every day, show to our neighbors and to the Lord that we are not willing to rid ourselves of...those things forbidden by the Lord? Let us be consistent with ourselves and our professions of faith." (CR, Oct. 1908, p. 88)

Joe J. Christensen - Presidency of the Seventy

"Follow the do's in the Word of Wisdom: eat plenty of fresh fruits, vegetables, and grains. Discover that meals need not feature the meat dish every time in order to be enjoyable and that a healthful diet will also benefit your budget. It really is a 'win-win' situation." (Joe J. Christensen, "Resolutions," Ensign, Dec. 1994, p. 64)

Hugh W. Nibley - BYU Professor

"Man's dominion is a call to service, not a license to exterminate. It is precisely because men now prey upon each other and shed the blood and waste the flesh of other creatures without need that the world lieth in sin."

"It is only because the Latter-day Saints are ignorant of these things, according to President Brigham Young (JD 15:227) that God has not already cursed them for their brutal and callous treatment of God's other creatures." (ERA, Oct. 1972, p. 24-31)

Edited May 4, 2012 by DWhitmer

[Log]

I do believe that was the first post that DWhitmer has made that I have found informative. And his post will, undoubtedly, inspire rousing choruses of "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God!," in the key of B-flat. And, of course, such singers will be chanting the wrong song.

Man, I do want me some steak, though.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Log

[DWhitmer]

I do believe that was the first post that DWhitmer has made that I have found informative. And his post will, undoubtedly, inspire rousing choruses of "And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God!," in the key of B-flat. And, of course, such singers will be chanting the wrong song. Man, I do want me some steak, though.

Predictable response, no offense, but look at the verse,

Who so forbids

What?

Abstainers of flesh, (Vegetarian)

Are what?

Not ordained of God.

To sum, it is the people againt flesh abstainers who are against God.

Edited May 4, 2012 by DWhitmer

[Log]

Huh what? You predicted my response? Somehow, I doubt you understood my response. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said that.

[DWhitmer]

Huh what? You predicted my response? Somehow, I doubt you understood my response. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said that.

I don't mean personally, that canned response is predictable from LDS, plus a few others, but once reviewed without the blind filters of tradition, the truth is contrary, yet coherent across all books of scripture.

[Log]

I was agreeing with you and predicting the canned response.

[DWhitmer]

I was agreeing with you and predicting the canned response.

I understand. Do you see the correct reading though?

[Log]

Yes, I do.

[DWhitmer]

Yes, I do.

I'm impressed, most can't see it with conginitive dissonance and such.

[Log]

Well, the common "interpretation" indeed has never sat well with me. Forbiddeth is the opposite of commandeth.

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.

21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.

The WoW is perfectly - unambiguously - clear on this subject, howsoever one chooses to interpret the above.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

So, yeah. I gotta agree.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Log

[selek1]

Well, the common "interpretation" indeed has never sat well with me. Forbiddeth is the opposite of commandeth.

The WoW is perfectly - unambiguously - clear on this subject, howsoever one chooses to interpret the above.

So, yeah. I gotta agree.

Except, of course, that the litany DWhitmer posted does not constitute a "vegetarian lifestyle."

Vegetarians, as a rule, exclude meat and usually dairy products from their diets. The more extreme and radical "vegans" abstain from any animal products.

There is a distinct and profound difference between "use sparingly and with thanksgiving" and "thou shalt not".

As usual, DWhitmer is imposing his own interpretation on the facts, implying a dichotomy and contradiction where none actually exists.

Under the most charitable interpretation, DWHitmer is engaging in Inductive, rather than deductive reasoning.

http://www.nakedscie...20Reasoning.htm

A less charitable interpretation is that he is letting his conclusions drive the facts rather than the other way round.

Edited May 4, 2012 by selek1

[Log]

Except, of course, that the litany DWhitmer posted does not constitute a "vegetarian lifestyle."

Yo, bro, "even a broken clock..."

Take it for what it is.

[David T]

Not sure if anyone has brought it up, but there's a fantastic article in the Winter 2012 Journal of Mormon History that discusses the history of the Word of Wisdom in its first decade, exploring that rather than the traditional simple view of 'Loose suggestion -> Eventually strict commandment' it was somewhat more of a roller-coaster, beginning as strict and official abstinence in Kirtland (with the Sacrament being a notable exception), with moderation growing into the interpretation during the Nauvoo period. Started strict, went looser, and then became strict again. Still working through the paper, but it's very interesting.

[DWhitmer]

Except, of course, that the litany DWhitmer posted does not constitute a "vegetarian lifestyle."

Vegetarians, as a rule, exclude meat and usually dairy products from their diets. The more extreme and radical "vegans" abstain from any animal products.

There is a distinct and profound difference between "use sparingly and with thanksgiving" and "thou shalt not".

Circular reasoning is quite often had among those who love to hear themselves. Once more you've failed to either refute or confirm original source material (note anyones interpretation). I'll make this easy, start with J.Smith and end with Lorenzo Snow.

[mfbukowski]

Circular reasoning is quite often had among those who love to hear themselves. Once more you've failed to either refute or confirm original source material (note anyones interpretation). I'll make this easy, start with J.Smith and end with Lorenzo Snow.

You know the history doesn't make one iota of difference to me whatsoever. It's a healthy lifestyle (WOW)- it's a good thing to separate us socially from "the world" , for me it works well in a pragmatic sense, and the church wants me to do it, so I really don't care much about this discussion.

But dude, you really come off with a giant chip on your shoulder- and whatever it is you are selling- there is no way I would buy it just from your attitude.

"By their fruits"... and all that. You need to learn a tad about being a good missionary- putting it simply.

[selek1]

Take it for what it is.

A poorly informed and thinly veiled rant by an avowed anti-Mormon with an axe to grind?

Believe me- I already took that into account.