LA Times article re: Latino LDS and ICE

[Okrahomer]

Here

My son and his wife (a naturalized US citizen from Mexico) attend a Spanish-speaking ward in Mapleton, and they report a lot of anxiety in their very large ward.  

[Calm]

Quote

This January, Brigham Young University shut down its “Dreamers” resource hub for undocumented students, after facing backlash from state leaders who complained that their tithings — or 10% obligated donations to the Church — were being used for illegal immigrants. Nori Gomez, the founding member of the Dreamer resource center, said the program’s offices started receiving threatening phone calls. The university eventually removed the resource page.

Disappointing…wish they would have switched to outside donations instead.  The threatening phone calls are disturbing.

Quote

In August, BYU’s Office of Belonging launched an immigration-focused eight-week course to help people gain a “basic understanding of complex immigration policies.” The goal is to equip more nonprofit workers to become partially accredited to represent clients in front of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services.

This is brilliant.  Very needed.

Edited October 10, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

Spanish-speaking ward in Mapleton

Are they in the 24th Ward?  It’s listed as Portuguese.  I don’t see a Spanish speaking ward here.  Springville has a Spanish speaking ward.  As does Spanish Fork

Edited October 10, 2025 by Calm

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Disappointing…wish they would have switched to outside donations instead.  The threatening phone calls are disturbing.

This is brilliant.  Very needed.

The university that I work for, declared itself a sanctuary campus quite some time ago. I’ve never heard of any pushback. 

[JVW]

I don't have time to read the article right now, but based on the topic I think there is a very interesting dynamic the church has to deal with here, and I have been discussing this idea with my wife lately due to all of the immigration stuff and also since she's had a ton of exposure to the illegal immigrant community as she herself was one, as was her family (from Australia), and her ex-fiance (from Guatemala), and most of the people she served on her mission in Chicago Spanish speaking. She has a lot of interesting stories related to illegal immigrants, anyways, what was I talking about?

Oh yeah, so the church is worldwide and Christ will deny none who come unto Him. And the church has the temple which they view as like, the place where people can build a relationship with Him. So there is Doctrine and Covenants 134 and Article of Faith 12 about obeying the law, supporting the government, that sort of thing. But in the temple recommend interview there is no question about whether or not someone obeys the law. There is the question about whether or not you are honest in your dealings with your fellow man, which could be interpreted in a variety of ways. One way it could easily be interpreted to mean (at least partially) is "do you lie to the government" like cheat on taxes, illegal immigration status, etc. I think it's really interesting that obeying the law of the land is not a requirement to enter the temple, I haven't personally decided on whether or not I agree with that. But regardless, the church doesn't care if a member is an illegal immigrant, and I believe they, in fact, support illegal immigration if it means keeping a family together because family > government law to the church.

So when it comes to a religious institution masquerading as a University there's an interesting line to toe. To run a University that's accredited I'm sure they have to create some close ties to the government and have to follow a bunch of government rules. And again, we literally have canonized scripture saying to obey the government as long as they respect freedom of conscience. But the church doesn't care about immigration status and wants to support everyone's walk with God.

I don't know what the answer is, but it is a fascinating problem. I do know that I don't respond well to threats. If I was part of the Dreamer center I would have been ok to close down if the proper channels were followed, but the moment someone calls with a threat I respond with a middle finger and that Dreamer center would stay open and be put up on a big pedestal. So I say, open that center back up, hire a few private security, and stick it to the man!

[Tacenda]

19 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

Here

My son and his wife (a naturalized US citizen from Mexico) attend a Spanish-speaking ward in Mapleton, and they report a lot of anxiety in their very large ward.  

Thanks for sharing!!

I've been feeling very down and distressed over all of this. My son in law is from Mexico, and legal or not, just the color of his skin could have him deported to who knows where.

[Tony uk]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks for sharing!!

I've been feeling very down and distressed over all of this. My son in law is from Mexico, and legal or not, just the color of his skin could have him deported to who knows where.

I hope everything will turn out ok for your son in law. It must be a worrying time for your family.

[Okrahomer]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

Are they in the 24th Ward?  It’s listed as Portuguese.  I don’t see a Spanish speaking ward here.  Springville has a Spanish speaking ward.  As does Spanish Fork

You are right!  Apologies:  They live in Mapleton but the Ward is in Spanish Fork.

[Okrahomer]

1 hour ago, Tony uk said:

I hope everything will turn out ok for your son in law. It must be a worrying time for your family.

You’ve expressed a lot of empathy here — something I’ve seen you do often. It’s one of the things I really appreciate about your posts. Empathy is such a Christlike quality; it reflects His way of seeing and caring for others. When we try to understand people’s hearts the way you do, we’re following His example of love and compassion. I learn from and am edified by your example.

[Tony uk]

4 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

You’ve expressed a lot of empathy here — something I’ve seen you do often. It’s one of the things I really appreciate about your posts. Empathy is such a Christlike quality; it reflects His way of seeing and caring for others. When we try to understand people’s hearts the way you do, we’re following His example of love and compassion. I learn from and am edified by your example.

I am grateful for your kind words of encouragement.

 

[halconero]

I served a Spanish speaking mission in Arizona. People without legal status in the United States were by far our largest teaching demographic, and represented a good proportion of each Spanish-speaking ward or branch.

Without naming names, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve did visit during my mission, and specifically instructed bishops that they were not to investigate or otherwise ask members about their legal status in temple recommend interviews or in other circumstances.

Equally interesting was the presence of missionaries in my mission who themselves did not have legal status. My understand is that, at the time, members without legal status were generally called within the state they lived (or adjacent states; I can't remember which). They did not attend the MTC, but instead went directly to the mission field, driven by their family and/or members of the bishopric. The only restriction on their service in our mission was that they couldn't be the assigned driver if the companionship had a vehicle, which seemed totally reasonable to me given the potential consequences if they were caught speeding.

To the extent that they still serve (I can't imagine why they wouldn't), I imagine that the remote MTC has made if far easier to train new missionaries who don't have legal status.

Edited October 10, 2025 by halconero

[Tony uk]

IMO, Maybe now is the right time for the LdD missionaries to step in. I appreciate this maybe a difficult time for these people. Maybe, when all around them is becoming some what disfunctional, then maybe the LdS missionaries can give these people something to centre on.

[ZealouslyStriving]

17 hours ago, Tony uk said:

IMO, Maybe now is the right time for the LdD missionaries to step in. I appreciate this maybe a difficult time for these people. Maybe, when all around them is becoming some what disfunctional, then maybe the LdS missionaries can give these people something to centre on.

What do you suggest the missionaries do that they aren't already doing?

[Danzo]

On 10/10/2025 at 3:23 PM, halconero said:

I served a Spanish speaking mission in Arizona. People without legal status in the United States were by far our largest teaching demographic, and represented a good proportion of each Spanish-speaking ward or branch.

Without naming names, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve did visit during my mission, and specifically instructed bishops that they were not to investigate or otherwise ask members about their legal status in temple recommend interviews or in other circumstances.

Equally interesting was the presence of missionaries in my mission who themselves did not have legal status. My understand is that, at the time, members without legal status were generally called within the state they lived (or adjacent states; I can't remember which). They did not attend the MTC, but instead went directly to the mission field, driven by their family and/or members of the bishopric. The only restriction on their service in our mission was that they couldn't be the assigned driver if the companionship had a vehicle, which seemed totally reasonable to me given the potential consequences if they were caught speeding.

To the extent that they still serve (I can't imagine why they wouldn't), I imagine that the remote MTC has made if far easier to train new missionaries who don't have legal status.

My wife was illegal when she was called to serve a mission (from California to Utah and attended the MTC in Utah)

Her brother was illegal when he was called (from California to Idaho and Attended the MTC in Utah)

Her sister was illegal when she was called (from California to Mexico and attended the MTC In Mexico)

[Calm]

Great to see you, Danzo.

[halconero]

On 10/13/2025 at 11:36 AM, Danzo said:

My wife was illegal when she was called to serve a mission (from California to Utah and attended the MTC in Utah)

Her brother was illegal when he was called (from California to Idaho and Attended the MTC in Utah)

Her sister was illegal when she was called (from California to Mexico and attended the MTC In Mexico)

Interesting. My experience was time bound (2010–2012) and geography bound (Arizona). I wouldn't be surprised if there was variation at the state level or by years.

[Rain]

On 10/10/2025 at 9:13 AM, JVW said:

I don't have time to read the article right now, but based on the topic I think there is a very interesting dynamic the church has to deal with here, and I have been discussing this idea with my wife lately due to all of the immigration stuff and also since she's had a ton of exposure to the illegal immigrant community as she herself was one, as was her family (from Australia), and her ex-fiance (from Guatemala), and most of the people she served on her mission in Chicago Spanish speaking. She has a lot of interesting stories related to illegal immigrants, anyways, what was I talking about?

Oh yeah, so the church is worldwide and Christ will deny none who come unto Him. And the church has the temple which they view as like, the place where people can build a relationship with Him. So there is Doctrine and Covenants 134 and Article of Faith 12 about obeying the law, supporting the government, that sort of thing. But in the temple recommend interview there is no question about whether or not someone obeys the law. There is the question about whether or not you are honest in your dealings with your fellow man, which could be interpreted in a variety of ways. One way it could easily be interpreted to mean (at least partially) is "do you lie to the government" like cheat on taxes, illegal immigration status, etc. I think it's really interesting that obeying the law of the land is not a requirement to enter the temple, I haven't personally decided on whether or not I agree with that. But regardless, the church doesn't care if a member is an illegal immigrant, and I believe they, in fact, support illegal immigration if it means keeping a family together because family > government law to the church.

Working with refugees, asylum seekers and undocumented workers I would say it doesn't so much support illegal immigration, but more so it supports people who have immigrated illegally. I know that is a fine line. 

On 10/10/2025 at 9:13 AM, JVW said:

So when it comes to a religious institution masquerading as a University there's an interesting line to toe. To run a University that's accredited I'm sure they have to create some close ties to the government and have to follow a bunch of government rules. And again, we literally have canonized scripture saying to obey the government as long as they respect freedom of conscience. But the church doesn't care about immigration status and wants to support everyone's walk with God.

I don't know what the answer is, but it is a fascinating problem. I do know that I don't respond well to threats. If I was part of the Dreamer center I would have been ok to close down if the proper channels were followed, but the moment someone calls with a threat I respond with a middle finger and that Dreamer center would stay open and be put up on a big pedestal. So I say, open that center back up, hire a few private security, and stick it to the man!

Lol. I don't think that is the church's style and they do have to be concerned about the safety of their employees/volunteers, but I'm mostly right there with you! 

[BlueDreams]

On 10/9/2025 at 8:54 PM, Calm said:

Are they in the 24th Ward?  It’s listed as Portuguese.  I don’t see a Spanish speaking ward here.  Springville has a Spanish speaking ward.  As does Spanish Fork

It likely crosses city boundaries. There are 3 spanish speaking wards in Springville for example. One in each stake. Language wards are often not as geographically centered as are English wards. It wouldn't surprise me if the mapleton members go to either springville or Spanish fork stakes rather that a mapleton one specifically. Or if the article confused wards with branches or other small details tatted would make this clearer. 

[Doctor Steuss]

Anecdotal, but my nephew just got home about 6 weeks ago from a stateside Spanish speaking mission (SC Charleston).  His final few months, the branch was struggling quite a bit because so many people were afraid to leave home to go to Church.   He also said tracting because an effort of complete futility because no one was going to open their door to a pair of 6-foot plus blonde dudes in suits.  One man he taught was deported a few weeks after he was baptized.

[The Nehor]

How dare you use my tithing to support those horrible dreamers? Those foul children who *checks notes*spent most of their childhood in America and possibly don’t even remember living in their country of origin?

They are horrible criminals and we should scream about a fraction of our tithing money hypothetically going to support their nefarious plan to *checks notes*….. get an education?

I suspect far too many members are overdosing on propaganda.