Pres. Oaks: "...a Heavenly Mother or Mothers"

[ZealouslyStriving]

In President Oaks' recent fireside/devotional (whatever they're called now) he mentions us being from "a Heavenly Mother or Mothers":

** Pres. Oaks is very deliberate is his talks. In a way I kind of feel vindicated in my idea, that I have expressed here before, that perhaps there are several Heavenly Mothers. When was the last time a modern Church leader expressed even a hint of Heavenly Father having multiple wives? Something is changing.

 

Edited July 16, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[The Nehor]

Good, being a half-sibling of some of the other people on this Earth is still hard to swallow. Convincing myself we are full siblings…..yeah right.

Now can we find out we have multiple fathers too?

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Now can we find out we have multiple fathers too?

It certainly makes as much sense as multiple Heavenly Mothers given it’s likely not a numbers issue (with eternities past and eternities future, there’s no need to rush).

[Duncan]

Elder Renlund said in GenCon sometime ago about we don't know much about Heavenly Mother(s)

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Good, being a half-sibling of some of the other people on this Earth is still hard to swallow. Convincing myself we are full siblings…..yeah right.

Now can we find out we have multiple fathers too?

I have actually pondered the thought that all those who become Celestial married beings, not just one coupling, supply the spirit children for the Earths.

[teddyaware]

7 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

In President Oaks' recent fireside/devotional (whatever they're called now) he mentions us being from "a Heavenly Mother or Mothers":

** Pres. Oaks is very deliberate is his talks. In a way I kind of feel vindicated in my idea, that I have expressed here before, that perhaps there are several Heavenly Mothers. When was the last time a modern Church leader expressed even a hint of Heavenly Father having multiple wives? Something is changing.

 

The possibility of there being several Heavenly Mothers could help explain why there are various races within the human family. If the terrestrial bodies of both Adam and Eve were the carriers of the dominant and recessive genes of one Heavenly Father and several Heavenly Mothers, from a long genetic history, all this would combine to comprise a diverse genetic makeup within each of their reproductive systems. This could help account for why there is so much interesting genetic diversity within the human race.

Edited July 16, 2025 by teddyaware

[bluebell]

7 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

In President Oaks' recent fireside/devotional (whatever they're called now) he mentions us being from "a Heavenly Mother or Mothers":

** Pres. Oaks is very deliberate is his talks. In a way I kind of feel vindicated in my idea, that I have expressed here before, that perhaps there are several Heavenly Mothers. When was the last time a modern Church leader expressed even a hint of Heavenly Father having multiple wives? Something is changing.

 

The idea has been expressed here many times. And in other places too.  I don't have a problem with it.  I don't think it stands on revelation though, but more on reasoning out our doctrine and combining that with individual circumstances.

Pres. Oaks himself is a polygamist, right?  Doesn't he have a deceased and a living wife, both sealed to him?  If so it makes sense that he would include his version of an eternal family into the possibilities for eternal increase and godhood.  And if it's a possibility for him then it is easy to extrapolate that it would have to be a possibility for God the Father as well.

[Senator]

Why does this need to be thought of in polygamous terms?  

My mother is directly responsible for my existence, my grandmother directly/indirectly, great-grandmother the same, and so on and so on.   I look backwards in time to a vast, linked chain of women I  call mother.

 

[Benjamin McGuire]

On 7/16/2025 at 10:35 AM, teddyaware said:

The possibility of there being several Heavenly Mothers could help explain why there are various races within the human family. If the terrestrial bodies of both Adam and Eve were the carriers of the dominant and recessive genes of one Heavenly Father and several Heavenly Mothers, from a long genetic history, all this would combine to comprise a diverse genetic makeup within each of their reproductive systems. This could help account for why there is so much interesting genetic diversity within the human race.

So we invent a new kind of racism?

I really don't see this as a feasible idea at all. Let's suppose that God (the Father) has DNA and a DNA signature, and that God's wive(s) all have DNA signatures. If God has more than one wife (as you suggest) we have to wonder how that DNA makes it into the human gene pool. It cannot come through some mechanism in the pre-existence, since that would mean that DNA was predetermined - and we wouldn't have the sort of genetic mixing that we see - everyone's DNA would actually only be determined by the two heavenly parents that created that spirit child. Perhaps it comes about because there is a different Adam and Eve for each heavenly mother? And as we are born into mortality, our DNA becomes a mixture that effectively combines the DNA from more than one of these heavenly mothers? Although even in this sense, it still creates a notion of DNA and race that modern science has completely debunked. And then what about the problem of bad genetics? Beyond that, should we attribute those who have a genetically linked same-sex attraction to a specific one of these heavenly mothers as opposed to all of them collectively? And what should we do with the introduction of Neanderthal DNA into the human genetic tree? Where does the pre-Adamite DNA come from, and is it a permanent part of us as we move forward through the eternities? And suppose that we start editing the human genome? Will those edits remain a permanent and eternal part of us? Just lots of questions here ...

The reality is that race is not a genetic construct but a social construct. Speaking from the position of DNA, there is really very little genetic diversity among modern humans - and a super high level of correspondence between modern human DNA and the DNA of those distant evolutionary ancestors (like neanderthals). The genetic differences between two people of the same 'race' can be much larger than the genetic differences between individuals of the different 'races'. But whatever ...

Edited July 17, 2025 by Benjamin McGuire

[ZealouslyStriving]

26 minutes ago, Senator said:

Why does this need to be thought of in polygamous terms?  

My mother is directly responsible for my existence, my grandmother directly/indirectly, great-grandmother the same, and so on and so on.   I look backwards in time to a vast, linked chain of women I  call mother.

 

🤫 Don't let Blake Ostler hear you talking of eternal regression.

[ZealouslyStriving]

21 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

The reality is that race is not a genetic construct but a social construct

Except that race can be determined through DNA testing.

[Benjamin McGuire]

27 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Except that race can be determined through DNA testing.

No, it can't.

A DNA test can be used to determine things about where your ancestors were from. And it can tell you things about your ancestry and what makes you the way you are. But it says nothing about race. Certainly genetics determine the visual characteristics that we all have. And we regularly use these visual characteristics when we invoke our socially constructed ideas of race. And genetics and DNA can be used to predict our appearance. But, the problem is that DNA cannot be used to define race - because the things that we use in our socially constructed notions of race don't actually match up to DNA profiles. 

Edited July 16, 2025 by Benjamin McGuire

[ZealouslyStriving]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

No, it can't.

A DNA test can be used to determine things about where your ancestors were from. And it can tell you things about your ancestry and what makes you the way you are. But it says nothing about race. Certainly genetics determine the visual characteristics that we all have. And we regularly use these visual characteristics when we invoke our socially constructed ideas of race. And genetics and DNA can be used to predict our appearance. But, the problem is that DNA cannot be used to define race - because the things that we use in our socially constructed notions of race don't actually match up to DNA profiles. 

https://nij.ojp.gov/nij-hosted-online-training-courses/dna-prosecutors-practice-notebook-inventory/special-case-circumstances/other-uses-dna-evidence/dna-used-identify-perpetrators-racial-or-ethnic-background

 

[MustardSeed]

Weren’t we recently schooled in GC for discussing heavenly mother? I wish they wouldn’t change the rules without discussing the fact that the rules are changing.
 

 

Edited July 16, 2025 by MustardSeed

[ZealouslyStriving]

Just now, MustardSeed said:

Weren’t we recently schooled in GC for discussing heavenly mother?

I guess Pres. Oaks will have to answer to Elder Rasband (I think that's who it was).

[telnetd]

32 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Weren’t we recently schooled in GC for discussing heavenly mother? I wish they wouldn’t change the rules without discussing the fact that the rules are changing.

The doctrine of there being multiple heavenly mothers for our Earth or wives of 
future polygamous Gods of their worlds (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others)
shouldn't be a surprise to those who believe Doctrine and Covenants 132.

It starts with verses 1 and 38.

"I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David 
and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many 
wives and concubines".

"David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, 
as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; 
and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me".

The LDS heavenly father glorified himself in the same way, which much seed.

"Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from 
whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they 
were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should 
continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable 
as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number 
them. This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made 
unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein 
he glorifieth himself".

It continued with other elders who may have desired to marry ten virgins before the 
practice was prohibited in 1890 (verses 61-63).

@ZealouslyStriving

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, telnetd said:

The doctrine of there being multiple heavenly mothers for our Earth or wives of 
future polygamous Gods of their worlds (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and others)
shouldn't be a surprise to those who believe Doctrine and Covenants 132.

It starts with verses 1 and 38.

"I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David 
and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many 
wives and concubines".

"David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, 
as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; 
and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me".

The LDS heavenly father glorified himself in the same way, which much seed.

"Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from 
whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they 
were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should 
continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable 
as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number 
them. This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made 
unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein 
he glorifieth himself".

It continued with other elders who may have desired to marry ten virgins before the 
practice was prohibited in 1890 (verses 61-63).

@ZealouslyStriving

I don’t think anybody is surprised by the content of Elder Oaks speech. It’s sort of an obvious nod to our doctrine. But we were specifically told within the last two years II don’t think anybody is surprised by the content of Elder Oaks speech. It’s sort of a obvious nod to our doctrine. But we were specifically told within the last two years ( I will have to do some research ) to stop talking about HM

[MustardSeed]

Upon further research, it turns out I was incorrect.
All that was said was to not speculate beyond what has been already told us.  

[webbles]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

https://nij.ojp.gov/nij-hosted-online-training-courses/dna-prosecutors-practice-notebook-inventory/special-case-circumstances/other-uses-dna-evidence/dna-used-identify-perpetrators-racial-or-ethnic-background

 

That is terrifying that law enforcement is doing that.  Wonder how many false positives it finds.  Probably will send some innocent people to jail.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Weren’t we recently schooled in GC for discussing heavenly mother? I wish they wouldn’t change the rules without discussing the fact that the rules are changing.
 

 

I thought it was for praying to her?  Now I need to go back and look because I’m wondering. I remember the talk but not the specifics 

[halconero]

Tangential, but a part of Church history I think gets misconstrued is Brigham Young's relative tolerance for exegesis on the scriptures or the uncanonized sayings/writings of Joseph Smith. I could use the term "doctrinal speculation," but I think that understates the amount of time, reasoning, and even scientific experimentation that President Young and his colleagues put into discovering and asserting what they believed to be true principles. Take one look at Elder Pratt's small, but significant contributions to math (he's cited on several wikipedia pages), and you can draw a reasonable line to how he approached theology. Gary James Bergera makes a decent case that the conflict between Orson Pratt and Brigham Young was (a) not as bitter or spiteful as some portray it as, and (b) had much more to do with President Young's position of dynamic revelation (living revelation supersedes past revelation) versus Elder Pratt's adherence to the written canon and past revelation.

We've tended towards institutional consistency among the public views of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, which I sustain and support for a variety of reasons, but it still makes me smile to see moments like this where members of the First Presidency and Twelve open the doors to revelatory or textual exegesis just a wee bit.

[MustardSeed]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I thought it was for praying to her?  Now I need to go back and look because I’m wondering. I remember the talk but not the specifics 

Turns out it was don’t pray to her, and don’t speculate beyond what’s already been offered.

 

[Teancum]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

The possibility of there being several Heavenly Mothers could help explain why there are various races within the human family. If the terrestrial bodies of both Adam and Eve were the carriers of the dominant and recessive genes of one Heavenly Father and several Heavenly Mothers, from a long genetic history, all this would combine to comprise a diverse genetic makeup within each of their reproductive systems. This could help account for why there is so much interesting genetic diversity within the human race.

That is certainly not why there is genetic diversity among humans. Such diversity is a result of evolution over time. Nothing more or less. So you think in the pre earth life there our spirits looked like we look in earth life?

[Teancum]

12 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

In President Oaks' recent fireside/devotional (whatever they're called now) he mentions us being from "a Heavenly Mother or Mothers":

** Pres. Oaks is very deliberate is his talks. In a way I kind of feel vindicated in my idea, that I have expressed here before, that perhaps there are several Heavenly Mothers. When was the last time a modern Church leader expressed even a hint of Heavenly Father having multiple wives? Something is changing.

 

Oh Dallin Oaks. Another reason to reject the dogma of Mormonism. At least for me and most women I know, the idea of many heavenly mothers is repugnant.  Women seemed reduced to making spirit babies forever. And don't say we don't know how it works because stating there are many heavenly mothers directly correlates to some similar process as we have here on earth. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

That is terrifying that law enforcement is doing that.  Wonder how many false positives it finds.  Probably will send some innocent people to jail.

Yes, just because something might be currently popular does not mean it’s actually accurate in identification.  Bite mark identification isn’t that reliable.

https://digitalcommons.collin.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1122&context=quest#:~:text=Although the field of forensic,et al.%2C 2018).