Beauty Pageants - Good or Bad?

[Jane_Doe]

27 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I agree, and I give them credit for what they’re doing so far.  I’m not anti pageants, like many in this thread seem to be.  There are many amazingly talented women involved in these competitions, I don’t want to see them go away, I just want to see an evolution that is more in tune with modern sensibilities.  

Also, I don’t think beauty should be completely ignored, but I think the standards for what to emphasize and how to emphasize it should be led by women and not men.  I think someone’s physical fitness could be emphasized differently than in a cat walk for example.  However I don’t think beauty should be so one dimensional.  

Agreed.

Personally, pageants aren't my cup of tea, but I don't see anything inherently wrong with them either-- in fact i know ladies who've had good experience with them.  And most pageants are indeed striving to show well-rounded beauty and not just 1-D physical beauty.  It is an uphill battle for them to combat those old stereotypes, and I admire the strives they take to fight that battle (like ditching the swim suit competition).  

Can some people go overboard with pageants?  Of course, they're no different than any other activity in that regard.   Ideally all things in moderation and keep good spirits/sportsmanship throughout.  

Edited September 12, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

Mine.  I've never seen this before.

As it happens, Sharlene Wells's father is Robert Earl Wells, the same "Elder Wells" who was a Seventy and purportedly received a "confession" of some kind from Joseph Bishop in 1977 when Bro. Wells was a Seventy and Joseph Bishop was a mission president in Argentina.

Thanks,

-Smac

I never knew Sharlene, but I did know two of her sisters. Danna was in one of my wards at BYU and Elaine worked with me for a while at the Church News until she quit to go to law school. I consider Elaine a good friend. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

Bad. They sexualise both contestants and spectators in ways that, in my opinion, should make Latter-day Saints uncomfortable.

[mfbukowski]

10 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I'm glad for the changes away from swimsuits.  I think the whole term "beauty pageant" ought to go away.  If it were more along the lines of an America's Got Talent, I think it could increase viewership.  Focus on talent and scholarship, instead of the exterior would be great things, and I think could pull viewers, they would need to be somewhat more creative and depart from the past, but I think they could do it.  Maybe a trivia contest like Jeopardy style, in addition to the talent competition.  For a test of physical skill, some kind of obstacle course, like a mini American Ninja Warrior.  There are all kinds of things they could do to have a competition and to make it interesting for audiences at the same time. 

And of course cut the sexism and include men.

Oh wait- yes we already have that, and as you said, it's just another talent competition.   I mean those must have some staying power- they have only been around 85 years or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Original_Amateur_Hour

You got t right the first time.  Just get rid of the dang things.

[Scott Lloyd]

15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

“Beauty pageants” are a relic of the past that should have died a natural death long ago. 

It has been quite a while since I’ve gotten this many rep points for a single post. I wish I could get this good a response when expressing a view that I’m really passionate about. I’m just kind of "meh" on this one. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Coop]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If you want more behind the scenes coverage have you considered the Trump approach of running it yourself and then just waltzing unannounced into women’s dressing room to get pervy peeks?

 

Me bad.  That didn't come out right.  By behind the scenes I'm talking about events that precede the actual pageant, background stories on the contestants, and  stories on the running of the pageant.  I did enough boudoir photos so I don't need any "pervy peeks."

All the best,

Bob

[carbon dioxide]

Taking out the swimsuit part probably did have some effect on ratings.  It never bothered me as much as the whole political side that it has come to be.  Politics infects pageants and sports.  Its hard to watch anything these days without it playing a role.

[strappinglad]

I think all competitions are bad. We should never compare ourselves with anyone else. It just puts enormous pressure to conform to some standard. Pageants are failing if they demand that all women try to rise to a particular level of beauty. Look at all the blue haired , multi- pierced, tattooed millenials. Don't keep score, give everyone a participation trophy. Are we not taught that we should all be one? Uniformity, that's they key.

This is a great model:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsghquB9ad0

 

 

( anyone triggered yet? )

Edited September 12, 2018 by strappinglad

[katherine the great]

On 9/11/2018 at 1:05 PM, smac97 said:

Yes.  See, e.g., here.

Nice! It really does make sense to no longer "judge on looks". Seriously, I mean they are all exceptionally physically beautiful and each state will likely have selected the candidate those judges found the most beautiful and accomplished. Any one of them would do just fine as the national winner. The whole thing is so subjective really. Any given beauty pageant would have a different outcome if the judges were different each time. I remember when pageant people would try to justify the swimsuit segment by claiming that they were measuring physical fitness. Absurd. If that's the case, send them on a mini marathon, measure their cholesterol, liver enzymes and their body fat content...

[katherine the great]

22 hours ago, strappinglad said:

 

This is a great model:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsghquB9ad0

 

 

( anyone triggered yet? )

Um. No.

[Thinking]

Viewership had been declining before the swimsuit competition was dropped (about 35% from 2013 to 2017).

https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/missamerica/miss-america-broadcast-ratings-drop-again-creates-trending-moments/article_df1cfc64-53ba-5302-8174-9dd2d9b72889.html

2013: 8.6 million viewers

2014: 7.1 million viewers

2015: 7.9 million viewers

2016: 6.25 million viewers

2017: 5.6 million viewers

Perhaps a time slot different from Sunday Night Football would generate better ratings.

[The Nehor]

On 9/11/2018 at 11:22 PM, Coop said:

Me bad.  That didn't come out right.  By behind the scenes I'm talking about events that precede the actual pageant, background stories on the contestants, and  stories on the running of the pageant.  I did enough boudoir photos so I don't need any "pervy peeks."

All the best,

Bob

[The Nehor]

On 9/11/2018 at 11:50 PM, strappinglad said:

I think all competitions are bad. We should never compare ourselves with anyone else. It just puts enormous pressure to conform to some standard. Pageants are failing if they demand that all women try to rise to a particular level of beauty. Look at all the blue haired , multi- pierced, tattooed millenials. Don't keep score, give everyone a participation trophy. Are we not taught that we should all be one? Uniformity, that's they key.

This is a great model:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsghquB9ad0

 

 

( anyone triggered yet? )

No, it is more that this is a stupid form of competition. A lot of beauty is genetics (though you can ruin your body even with good genetics). It seems to me a lot like having a height competition. Yeah, you won. So what?

While other forms of competition are also influence heavily by genetics (athletics, intellectual, etc.) they also require discipline and practice.

Even then I think our culture is far too obsessed with these competitions. Does it really matter who is the best at moving a ball? Winning at chess? Swimming fast? Riding a bike? Doing mental math? Being able to spell obscure words?

I do not want to knock excellence in general but there are so many more productive and inspiring ways to use excellence.

When I see kids obsessed/forced into things like chess and gymnastics I think of this quote:

"The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life."

Then again, the guy behind that quote abandoned chess to become a lawyer and failed abysmally as a lawyer so maybe he should have stuck with chess?

[Calm]

Beauty competitions probably require a lot of self discipline (eating, muscle tone, learning poise before an audience, being able to go through all the prep), but whether that makes them of value I have little experience to judge since I don't believe I have ever seen much more than a commercial for one or perhaps an announcement on the news and I don't know if I know anyone personally who has gone through that process.

[katherine the great]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Beauty competitions probably require a lot of self discipline (eating, muscle tone, learning poise before an audience, being able to go through all the prep), but whether that makes them of value I have little experience to judge since I don't believe I have ever seen much more than a commercial for one or perhaps an announcement on the news and I don't know if I know anyone personally who has gone through that process.

Okay I confess. I did it once. It was a long time ago and I only did it because our debate coach was buddies with the pageant coordinator and offered extra credit for entering--so if we thought we were hot we entered. In my case, there was very little self discipline (I dieted for a week before the pageant), I already had my talent from a musical I had recently done, blinged out my prom dress for the evening gown, and  borrowed a swimsuit and some shoes for the swimsuit competition. I really didn't care about the outcome at all but I actually won. (probably because I was so relaxed about the whole thing and I killed the interview). I know some of the other girls put in a lot of preparation and were very disappointed. I felt bad because I knew it meant so much more to them, but it still was kinda fun. 

[Calm]

I will never look at you(r avatar) the same way ever now! 

[katherine the great]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

I will never look at you(r avatar) the same way ever now! 

Lol! I have a disgraceful past.  

[Mansquatch]

Where will we get awesome stuff like this?:

That said, the word "pageant" needs to go away. 

[Coop]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Who would have thought that I would actually meet my hero, Weird Al Yankovic on a Mormon discussion forum!  I have a ton of questions for you and as soon as I'm able to post I will send you a list.  I do have one quick question and that is how did you come up with your user name of "The Nehor?

All the best,

Bob

PS the picture doesn't do you justice.  The autographed one you sent me was much nicer.

[MiserereNobis]

22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

"The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life."

As a chess player and chess coach, I take offense at this statement. I plan to end up like the American chess hero, Bobby Fischer:

But seriously, we can waste our time at many things, but that doesn't mean they are all equal. Beauty pageant queens and chess grandmasters don't seem to be equal, but that might just be my own bias  

Edited September 15, 2018 by MiserereNobis

[katherine the great]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Beauty pageant queens and chess grandmasters don't seem to be equal, but that might just be my own bias  

Perhaps they complete each other. 👫

[MiserereNobis]

12 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Perhaps they complete each other. 👫

Well, there are certainly many beautiful female chess grandmasters out there, for sure  

[Exiled]

On 9/11/2018 at 6:13 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

I never knew Sharlene, but I did know two of her sisters. Danna was in one of my wards at BYU and Elaine worked with me for a while at the Church News until she quit to go to law school. I consider Elaine a good friend. 

I grew up with the Wells sisters. They were in my ward when I was in elementary school. Janet was my age and we were really excited when Charlene won the Miss America Pagent. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Coop said:

Who would have thought that I would actually meet my hero, Weird Al Yankovic on a Mormon discussion forum!  I have a ton of questions for you and as soon as I'm able to post I will send you a list.  I do have one quick question and that is how did you come up with your user name of "The Nehor?

All the best,

Bob

PS the picture doesn't do you justice.  The autographed one you sent me was much nicer.

Thanks for giving me the idea for "Like a Surgeon".

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

As a chess player and chess coach, I take offense at this statement. I plan to end up like the American chess hero, Bobby Fischer:

But seriously, we can waste our time at many things, but that doesn't mean they are all equal. Beauty pageant queens and chess grandmasters don't seem to be equal, but that might just be my own bias  

I prefer playing a game of chess to watching a beauty pageant.