Adultery in the Book of Mormon

[Maestrophil]

I was reading in Alma today about Korihor and, aside from really resonating with eh fact that the same arguments he made in teh BOM are made in earnest today, I noticed that the scripture said that the people in the BOM had punishments.  It mentions death penalty for murder, but hen listed sins like robbery, stealing, adultery etc.  

Why do we not see people in teh BOM practicing the Law of Moses in regards to Adultery?  It occurred to me that at this time period int eh bible it seems that death was the penalty for adultery, but we see several instance of it in the BOM with no such penalty.  

Theories as to why?

 

 

[OGHoosier]

24 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

Why do we not see people in teh BOM practicing the Law of Moses in regards to Adultery?  It occurred to me that at this time period int eh bible it seems that death was the penalty for adultery, but we see several instance of it in the BOM with no such penalty.

I'll note that the construction of Alma 30:10 does not exclude capital punishment for adultery, it just doesn't bring it up specifically. The point is to communicate the difference between universally acclaimed and punished crimes and one's belief, in order to highlight Nephite views on liberty and how they enabled Korihor. There's no need to stipulate the punishments for each crime there.

What examples in the BoM are you thinking of? Jacob condemns adultery in his day specifically, but other than that I can't think of specific examples besides the generalized lasciviousness ascribed to Noah, his priests, Mormon's Nephite contemporaries, etc. 

In Jacob's case I'm inclined to think that the political situation did not allow for him to call for the execution of certain individuals, especially since it's hinted that he wasn't on the best of terms with his brother Nephi's royal successors. It should also be noted that Sherem accuses Jacob of not keeping the law of Moses in Jacob 7:7. It appears there was enough daylight between Jacob's observance of the Law of Moses and the standards to which the Nephites had access that Sherem could plausibly accuse him of failing to uphold it. If so, the Nephites probably employed some discretion with regard to their observance of the Law of Moses, particularly since they viewed it as a predecessor law as opposed to a God-breathed standard in its own right. This perception is Sherem's stated target, and therefore had to have been at least plausibly present despite Sherem's own cynicism.

Edited April 25, 2025 by OGHoosier

[CV75]

56 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

I was reading in Alma today about Korihor and, aside from really resonating with eh fact that the same arguments he made in teh BOM are made in earnest today, I noticed that the scripture said that the people in the BOM had punishments.  It mentions death penalty for murder, but hen listed sins like robbery, stealing, adultery etc.  

Why do we not see people in teh BOM practicing the Law of Moses in regards to Adultery?  It occurred to me that at this time period int eh bible it seems that death was the penalty for adultery, but we see several instance of it in the BOM with no such penalty.  

Theories as to why?

 

 

Perhaps a lack of witnesses and high-profile cases; Mormon's abridgement (and his paradigm) occurred after the Gospel was taught by Jesus and so his focus was not on enforcing the law of Moses; the discussion in Alma 30:7 - 12 concerns punishable crimes (secular justice) and not the law of Moses which served as the people's moral compass and the basis for teh secular law (verses 3, 4).

[The Nehor]

There is little evidence that the Torah’s extensive list of ‘criminals’ that should be killed was ever used in practice in the Kingdom of Judah or during the exile.

[Maestrophil]

All great thoughts so far - thank you!

 

[Maestrophil]

1 hour ago, OGHoosier said:

 

What examples in the BoM are you thinking of? Jacob condemns adultery in his day specifically, but other than that I can't think of specific examples besides the generalized lasciviousness ascribed to Noah, his priests, Mormon's Nephite contemporaries, etc. 

 

In addition to this one, I was thinking of Corianton

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

In addition to this one, I was thinking of Corianton

Corianton is a weird situation. Somehow there is a really famous sex worker that Corianton hears about and so he travels to see her? Was she Helen of Troy or something? Alma talks about how many were seduced by her. How? It can’t be her looks since Corianton had to travel to seek her out. Was it some kind of sex cult that she was seducing people to? Word of mouth? What was going on here?

Also Alma seems to think the worst consequence was that the people saw Corianton doing this and it impacted the missionary work. Was that the sin next to murder? Or was it the fornicating? Or was this adultery? Or was adultery still considered to be a thing for men only if the woman was married and seeking out a sex worker would be fornication at worst for the man? I don’t see any indication that Nephite society was somehow less patriarchal than what they left behind. Jacob suggested that they should be different from that culture but they clearly were not or Jacob wouldn’t have been castigating them for it.

[InCognitus]

We need to keep this thread away from the Foolish Virgins folder somehow.  Right now they are shown one right after the other on the topic list, and someone might think they are related.

[Kenngo1969]

I don't have anything specific to say regarding how adultery is punished under the Law of Moses versus how it is punished in the Book of Mormon.  I'm not sure the source I am about to recommend has anything to say about adultery specifically, and I'm not sure how far "into the weeds" you wish to venture, but I would recommend, highly, John W. Welch's Legal Cases of the Book of Mormon.

By no means do I have any affinity for apostates in the Book of Mormon.  Still,  one thing that I think is fascinating that Legal Cases addresses is the fact that many so-called "apostates" or antagonists were seeking to uphold the "old order" (my term) of the Law of Moses (at least as it was adapted and practiced by the Nephites), as opposed to the new, unfamiliar worship of "the Christ to come" (my descriptor).

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/mi/49/

 

 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There is little evidence that the Torah’s extensive list of ‘criminals’ that should be killed was ever used in practice in the Kingdom of Judah or during the exile.

The kings of Judah certainly carried out executions, as in the case of the prophet Uriah ben-Shemaiah of Qiryat-Yearim (Jer 26:20-23), and rabbis during the Exile (if permitted}:

Quote

R. Sheila administered lashes to a man who had engaged in intercourse with a Gentile woman. The man went and informed on him to the king. He said, “There is a man among the Jews who passes judgment without royal authorization.” The king sent for [R. Sheila]. When he arrived, they asked him, “Why did you flog this man?” He answered them, “He engaged in intercourse with a female donkey.” They said to him, “Do you have witnesses?” He answered, “Yes.” [The prophet] Eliyahu appeared in the form of a man, and gave testimony. They said to him, “If so, then he is deserving of death!” He told them, “Since the day that we were exiled from our land, we have no authority to pass a death sentence, but you – you may do to him as you wish.”

While they were considering his case, R. Sheila declared: “Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power…” (Divrei ha-Yamim I 29:11). They asked him, “What did you say?” He said, “What I said was: Blessed is the Lord Who grants earthly monarchy in the model of Divine Kingship, and has granted you dominion and a love of justice.” They said, “So beloved to him is the honor of the monarchy?!” They gave him a staff and said to him, “You may serve as judge.”

When he left, that man said to him, “Does God then perform miracles for liars?” He replied, “Wicked one! Are they not called donkeys? For it is written, ‘…whose flesh is [as] the flesh of donkeys’ (Yechezkel 23:20).” When he saw that the man was about to inform on him for calling them donkeys, he said, “This man is a persecutor, and the Torah states, ‘If someone comes to kill you, arise and kill him first.’” So he struck him with the staff and killed him. (Berakhot 58a)

 

Edited April 26, 2025 by Robert F. Smith

[ZealouslyStriving]

5 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

I was reading in Alma today about Korihor and, aside from really resonating with eh fact that the same arguments he made in teh BOM are made in earnest today, I noticed that the scripture said that the people in the BOM had punishments.  It mentions death penalty for murder, but hen listed sins like robbery, stealing, adultery etc.  

Why do we not see people in teh BOM practicing the Law of Moses in regards to Adultery?  It occurred to me that at this time period int eh bible it seems that death was the penalty for adultery, but we see several instance of it in the BOM with no such penalty.  

Theories as to why?

 

 

The post-exile version of the Law may be a tad different than the version the Nephite carried with them on the Brass Plates. There are some great YouTube episodes exploring the Josiah reforms and the Deutoronomoists (sp?).

Under the Mosaic Law as we have it in our current Bible the Zoramite enclave should've been razed, but we know that there was no Nephite law against ones beliefs.

[Kevin Christensen]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Corianton is a weird situation. Somehow there is a really famous sex worker that Corianton hears about and so he travels to see her? Was she Helen of Troy or something? Alma talks about how many were seduced by her. How? It can’t be her looks since Corianton had to travel to seek her out. Was it some kind of sex cult that she was seducing people to? Word of mouth? What was going on here?

Also Alma seems to think the worst consequence was that the people saw Corianton doing this and it impacted the missionary work. Was that the sin next to murder? Or was it the fornicating? Or was this adultery? Or was adultery still considered to be a thing for men only if the woman was married and seeking out a sex worker would be fornication at worst for the man? I don’t see any indication that Nephite society was somehow less patriarchal than what they left behind. Jacob suggested that they should be different from that culture but they clearly were not or Jacob wouldn’t have been castigating them for it.

Nibley pointed out in "The Book of Mormon: Forty Years After" published in The Prophetic Book of Mormon" that more was going on with Corianton than fornication.  He left his mission to join with Isabel and had to travel to see her where she had many followers.  He points out the Isabel was the name of the Patroness of Harlots in the religion of the Phoenicians.  Mike Ash went into more detail in a Sunstone essay called "The Sin Next to Murder" which starts with the insight that if sexual transgression was the main issue one should expect that to be the focus of the discourse.  

Careful reading involves more than raising questions or uncritically accepting traditions based on surface reading.  Both Nibley and Ash provide much food for thought, expansion of the mind, enlargement of the soul.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Tooele, UT

[filovirus]

According to the Law of Moses, the death penalty was only if a man slept with another man’s wife. Other forms of adultery would have different consequences depending on the situation.

However, it seems clear that Lehi’s group may have been practicing a Law of Moses that differed slightly from the Judahite form. Probably carried down from the northern kingdom refugees.

[teddyaware]

20 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

I was reading in Alma today about Korihor and, aside from really resonating with eh fact that the same arguments he made in teh BOM are made in earnest today, I noticed that the scripture said that the people in the BOM had punishments.  It mentions death penalty for murder, but hen listed sins like robbery, stealing, adultery etc.  

Why do we not see people in teh BOM practicing the Law of Moses in regards to Adultery?  It occurred to me that at this time period int eh bible it seems that death was the penalty for adultery, but we see several instance of it in the BOM with no such penalty.  

Theories as to why?

 

 

Have you considered the fact that when Christ frankly forgave the woman taken in adultery, and shamed away those who intended to stone her to death in compliance with the law of Moses, that the law of Moses was still in effect and would continue to remain in effect until Christ had consummated his atoning sacrifice? Lo and behold, here we have an example of the very giver of the law of Moses himself, the great Jehovah, not following the letter of his own law while it was still in effect! Read the following words of forgiveness and comfort given to the woman taken in adultery by the Lord, for they are a clear testimony that the law of Moses wasn’t designed to be inflexibly enforced by the letter without a there being a place for mercy. I reiterate, this stirring account of forgiveness for adultery happened while the law of Moses was still in effect!

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (John 8:7-12)

Edited April 26, 2025 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The kings of Judah certainly carried out executions, as in the case of the prophet Uriah ben-Shemaiah of Qiryat-Yearim (Jer 26:20-23), and rabbis during the Exile (if permitted}:

 

There were executions for the normal stuff societies at the time killed people but not for many of the Torah laws. No mention of stoning children for disodedience or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath or killing adulterers.

[Maestrophil]

On 4/25/2025 at 7:00 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

The post-exile version of the Law may be a tad different than the version the Nephite carried with them on the Brass Plates. There are some great YouTube episodes exploring the Josiah reforms and the Deutoronomoists (sp?).

Under the Mosaic Law as we have it in our current Bible the Zoramite enclave should've been razed, but we know that there was no Nephite law against ones beliefs.

I wondered if some of that ight be happening too - how was the Law defined and enforced before the branch of Lehi spit off

[Maestrophil]

On 4/26/2025 at 9:37 AM, teddyaware said:

Have you considered the fact that when Christ frankly forgave the woman taken in adultery, and shamed away those who intended to stone her to death in compliance with the law of Moses, that the law of Moses was still in effect and would continue to remain in effect until Christ had consummated his atoning sacrifice? Lo and behold, here we have an example of the very giver of the law of Moses himself, the great Jehovah, not following the letter of his own law while it was still in effect! Read the following words of forgiveness and comfort given to the woman taken in adultery by the Lord, for they are a clear testimony that the law of Moses wasn’t designed to be inflexibly enforced by the letter without a there being a place for mercy. I reiterate, this stirring account of forgiveness for adultery happened while the law of Moses was still in effect!

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (John 8:7-12)

Right, but isn't that a decision that could only be man by The Lord?

[Robert F. Smith]

On 4/26/2025 at 2:27 PM, The Nehor said:

There were executions for the normal stuff societies at the time killed people but not for many of the Torah laws. No mention of stoning children for disodedience or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath or killing adulterers.

"Normal stuff"??  They were ready to stone the woman brought to Jesus, and Stephen was certainly stoned to death.  The chief priest and sanhedrin certainly killed James the Just (the brother of Jesus). Rabbi Sheila certainly carried out a Torah execution as well, using an iron rod to do it.

[teddyaware]

14 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Right, but isn't that a decision that could only be man by The Lord?

The decision to not stone the woman taken in adultery was made by every one of those initially outraged men who eventually slinked away in shame after being convicted by their own guilty consciences into inaction. In fact, the original intent of the Mosaic Law may have been made manifest through this famous encounter, for who among all the Hebrews who ever lived, from Moses to Jesus, actually was pure and holy enough to be able to cast that proverbial first stone? It may very well be that by means of this incident the imperfection of Moses’ inferior “law of carnal commandments,” (a law that by its very design was unable to make anything perfect) was laid bear in its internal contradictions for all the world to see.

For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (Hebrews 7)

Edited April 28, 2025 by teddyaware

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

"Normal stuff"??  They were ready to stone the woman brought to Jesus, and Stephen was certainly stoned to death.  The chief priest and sanhedrin certainly killed James the Just (the brother of Jesus). Rabbi Sheila certainly carried out a Torah execution as well, using an iron rod to do it.

They weren’t going to stone the woman they brought to Jesus. It was a trick. If Jesus said she should be killed it would mean he was advocating for an obsolete law. If he refused he would be seen as arguing against the Torah. Jesus threaded the needle like he usually did with these tricksy gambits.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They weren’t going to stone the woman they brought to Jesus. It was a trick. If Jesus said she should be killed it would mean he was advocating for an obsolete law. If he refused he would be seen as arguing against the Torah. Jesus threaded the needle like he usually did with these tricksy gambits.

Jesus was certainly clever, I'll give you that, but that does not tell us what those hypocrites would actually have done.  In our day, just such extr4me punishments are carried regularly in Saudia under Islamic law -- which is merely a derivative of Judaism.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Jesus was certainly clever, I'll give you that, but that does not tell us what those hypocrites would actually have done.  In our day, just such extr4me punishments are carried regularly in Saudia under Islamic law -- which is merely a derivative of Judaism.

Not really a relevant comparison but execution for adultery is very rare in Saudi Arabia. I have heard there is an average of about one execution a decade for it.

Also Islam is a break off of Christianity, not Judaism. Christianity is a break off of Judaism so you can maybe call Judaism a grandparent.

[OGHoosier]

On 4/25/2025 at 5:09 PM, InCognitus said:

We need to keep this thread away from the Foolish Virgins folder somehow.  Right now they are shown one right after the other on the topic list, and someone might think they are related.

Dang it, they're next to each other again. Hopefully this post fixes it for a time.

[halconero]

On 4/25/2025 at 2:49 PM, The Nehor said:

Corianton is a weird situation. Somehow there is a really famous sex worker that Corianton hears about and so he travels to see her? Was she Helen of Troy or something? Alma talks about how many were seduced by her. How? It can’t be her looks since Corianton had to travel to seek her out. Was it some kind of sex cult that she was seducing people to? Word of mouth? What was going on here?

Also Alma seems to think the worst consequence was that the people saw Corianton doing this and it impacted the missionary work. Was that the sin next to murder? Or was it the fornicating? Or was this adultery? Or was adultery still considered to be a thing for men only if the woman was married and seeking out a sex worker would be fornication at worst for the man?

I think the idea that Alma's main concern was the impact of Corianton's choices on the ministry is the one supported by the text.

Consider the following from Alma 39:

1) ALMA'S PREFACE

Quote

And now, my son, I have somewhat more to say unto thee than what I said unto thy brother; for behold, have ye not observed the steadiness of thy brother, his faithfulness, and his diligence in keeping the commandments of God? Behold, has he not set a good example for thee?

It's possible that the brother Alma was referring to here was Helaman, but in context—letters of instructions to his sons—the letter to Shiblon immediately precedes Alma's letter to Corianton. We also see Alma evaluate Shiblon's ministry in the following words:

Quote

And now, my son, I trust that I shall have great joy in you, because of your steadiness and your faithfulness unto God; for as you have commenced in your youth to look to the Lord your God, even so I hope that you will continue in keeping his commandments; for blessed is he that endureth to the end.

I say unto you, my son, that I have had great joy in thee already, because of thy faithfulness and thy diligence, and thy patience and thy long-suffering among the people of the Zoramites.

He notes Shiblon's patience in his trials for the sake of the word, admonishes him to trust God, and after sharing a bit of his conversion, tells him to be wary of pride and to "not boast in your own wisdom, nor of your much strength."

Let's return to Corianton in the next chapter:

Quote

1 And now, my son, I have somewhat more to say unto thee than what I said unto thy brother; for behold, have ye not observed the steadiness of thy brother, his faithfulness, and his diligence in keeping the commandments of God? Behold, has he not set a good example for thee?

2 For thou didst not give so much heed unto my words as did thy brother, among the people of the Zoramites. Now this is what I have against thee; thou didst go on unto boasting in thy strength and thy wisdom.

3 And this is not all, my son. Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; for thou didst forsake the ministry...

Okay, so he praises Shiblon's "faithfulness and diligence" in reference to his ministry among the Zoramites, a phrase he repeats with Corianton. He warns Shiblon about certain pitfalls, specifically in regards to wisdom and strength, and then points out how Corianton fell into those specific pitfalls. Finally, we see contrasting pictures of sticking to a ministry versus forsaking it.

With all that, it's pretty reasonable to conclude that Shiblon was the brother Alma was referring to in his preface to Corianton, and given the language, his main concern was the personal character, action, and its relationship to missionary work.

2) ISABEL IN CONTEXT

Quote

3 And this is not all, my son. Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; (A) for thou didst forsake the ministry, and did go over into the land of Siron among the borders of the Lamanites, (B) after the harlot Isabel.

4 (B) Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; (A) but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted.

Notice the structure:

(A) You left the ministry
(B) You went after Isabel
(B) Many have gone after Isabel
(A) You should have stayed in the ministry

I've grouped these by related ideas. We have no clue whether Corianton broke the law of chastity with Isabel or not. I actually don't think he did (I'll come back to that). Either way, Alma's main concern seems to be what it meant for Corianton's ministry. Besides the above verses, I think the strongest proof comes next:

3) A SIN NEXT TO MURDER

Quote

5 Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?

6 For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness; yea, I say unto you, my son, that it is not easy for him to obtain a forgiveness.

7 And now, my son, I would to God that ye had not been guilty of so great a crime. I would not dwell upon your crimes, to harrow up your soul, if it were not for your good.

Growing up, I heard people suggest that, given Corianton's pursuit of Isabel, the obvious conclusion was that Alma's main concern was possible fornication with her, thus leading us to conclude that fornication is a sin that's almost comparable to the shedding of blood.

Except, Alma doesn't suggest it's just one thing he takes issue you with in regards to Corianton's actions, it's "these things." If we had to rely on this chapter alone, we could conclude that breaking the law of chastity was among "these things," but thankfully, we have other writings of Alma, including one where he outlines a sin that he does consider being akin to murder, namely Alma 36:

Quote

12 But I was racked with eternal torment, for my soul was harrowed up to the greatest degree and racked with all my sins.

13 Yea, I did remember all my sins and iniquities, for which I was tormented with the pains of hell; yea, I saw that I had rebelled against my God, and that I had not kept his holy commandments.

14 Yea, and I had murdered many of his children, or rather led them away unto destruction; yea, and in fine so great had been my iniquities, that the very thought of coming into the presence of my God did rack my soul with inexpressible horror.

Alma, in sharing the story of his repentance with Helaman, details the harrowing of his soul, which he attributes to his "murder" of many of God's children. He then clarifies this by saying his murder was a spiritual one, leading others away unto destruction. To Alma, leading others astray is a sin, even a great inquity, akin to murder, the gravity of which seems comparable to his use of the word "abominations" in his advice to Corianton.

This take seems confirmed in Alma 39, when he describes the fallout of Corianton pursuing Isabel and a subsequent revelation that Alma received from God:

Quote

11 Suffer not yourself to be led away by any vain or foolish thing; suffer not the devil to lead away your heart again after those wicked harlots. Behold, O my son, how great iniquity ye brought upon the Zoramites; for when they saw your conduct they would not believe in my words.

12 And now the Spirit of the Lord doth say unto me: Command thy children to do good, lest they lead away the hearts of many people to destruction; therefore I command you, my son, in the fear of God, that ye refrain from your iniquities;

13 That ye turn to the Lord with all your mind, might, and strength; that ye lead away the hearts of no more to do wickedly; but rather return unto them, and acknowledge your faults and that wrong which ye have done.

The flight of Corianton causes a "great iniquity" among the Zoramites, such that they refuse to believe Alma. The Holy Ghost then counsels Alma to command his children to good, lest they lead others "to destruction," a term which, as we've previously outlined, Alma equates with the murder of God's children.

4) CORIANTON AND ISABEL

I mentioned this before, but I don't think Corianton had sex with Isabel. It's possible, but Alma uses a different term than the one I'd choose if Corianton had actually broken the law of chastity when calling on him to repent:

Quote

9 Now my son, I would that ye should repent and forsake your sins, and go no more after the lusts of your eyes, but cross yourself in all these things; for except ye do this ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Oh, remember, and take it upon you, and cross yourself in these things.

If Alma had said "go no more after Isabel" or even more strongly, "go no more unto Isabel" or some other phrasing, I think there would be a stronger case or stronger possibility that Corianton had actually committed fornication or adultery. Instead, Alma counsels his son to no longer go after the "lusts of his eyes," a phrase that is used elsewhere in scripture:

Quote

1 John 2:13-16 (KJV):

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 John 2:13-16 is actually part of a poetic structure in 1 John 2 that is written to both newest and the eldest members of the Church being addressed by the writer of 1 John. Conceptually, the writer differentiates between lusts of the flesh and lusts of the eyes in such a way that biblical scholars think he is referencing an older story—the Fall. See Genesis 3:

Quote

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The term "good," as in "good for food," is used throughout the Hebrew Bible to mean "pleasing" (2 Kings 2:19; Esther 8:5) or even "beautiful" (Exodus 2:2). The connotation is something that is physically pleasing or good (in Eve's case, to satisfy hunger). There are no normative associations with the term, and it is used to describe both good and bad acts borne out of the regular human need to eat or otherwise satisfy our physical nature. The construction of the Hebrew word here for "pleasant" does take a more normative meaning in the other places it is used, where it suggests an intense, specific, and almost insatiable want. It's something that occurs prior to Eve consuming the fruit.

If this association applies to Alma 39, the implication is that Corianton desired Isabel, but it does not go so far as to suggest he actually consummated that desire with her.

Prior to this, Alma suggested that his son, like other men, had given his heart to Isabel. The Hebrew Bible tends to use more explicit language when talking about it actual fornication or adultery, using terms like “lie with,” “commit adultery/fornication,” “go in unto.” There isn’t much euphemism, at least in the way we’re used to. By contrast, when talking about sinful, sexual desire, the scriptures tend to use terms like “lust after,” “look on a woman to lust,” “covet,” or “tempted by.” Alma uses the language of the latter rather than the former.

This notion is supported by Alma's further admonition that Corianton cross himself in "these things," an appeal which echoes Jesus' teachings in the Sermon on the Mount/Plain, whose verses against sexual immorality focus on eliminating mental and emotional lusts.

5) THE ROLE OF A FATHER

I had a pretty tender realization the other day, that behind every successful angel there's a loving parent. Around twelve years ago, the Church put out a three-part series by Elder Bednar called "Patterns of Light." In Part II, Elder Bednar asks why God would send an angel to remind us to say our morning prayers when the Holy Ghost can bring back to us the remembrance of our "angel mother" reminding us to pray—the effect is the same—"everything that invites and entices us to good and to be good comes from God."

I would suggest that Alma feels the same, based on his own experience with the angel. Notice below his initial response to the angel’s words:

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8 But behold, the voice said unto me: Arise. And I arose and stood up, and beheld the angel.

9 And he said unto me: If thou wilt of thyself be destroyed, seek no more to destroy the church of God.

10 And it came to pass that I fell to the earth; and it was for the space of three days and three nights that I could not open my mouth, neither had I the use of my limbs.

11 And the angel spake more things unto me, which were heard by my brethren, but I did not hear them...

...16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.

I have come to believe that repentance is not the guilt we feel for sin. It may play some necessary role in producing a desire to change, but it is not sufficient. Rather, repentance is the yearning we feel to be close to God and a willingness to take upon ourselves whatever name, behaviour, or mindset we need to do so. More specifically, it is a desire to receive whatever gift of help that God is willing to give us so that we can be close to him. In that sense, Alma 36:8–16 are a prelude to repentance, during which time Alma resisted the idea of coming near to God. 

The angel, then, was sufficient to confront Alma with the consequences of his sins, but he was not sufficient to produce a changed heart.

The real credit goes to Alma's father:

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17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.

18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

As I said, behind every successful angel there’s a loving mom or dad.

I believe Alma had the example of his own father in-mind when he was writing to Corianton, specifically his father’s prophecies of the coming of Christ and the effect they had on his own repentance:

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15 And now, my son, I would say somewhat unto you concerning the coming of Christ. Behold, I say unto you, that it is he that surely shall come to take away the sins of the world; yea, he cometh to declare glad tidings of salvation unto his people.

...

17 And now I will ease your mind somewhat on this subject. Behold, you marvel why these things should be known so long beforehand. Behold, I say unto you, is not a soul at this time as precious unto God as a soul will be at the time of his coming?

18 Is it not as necessary that the plan of redemption should be made known unto this people as well as unto their children?

19 Is it not as easy at this time for the Lord to send his angel to declare these glad tidings unto us as unto our children, or as after the time of his coming?

It's easy to read Alma 39 as a strong diatribe against a wayward son. I think, however, it is closer to a deeply concerned letter by a father who saw a son going down a path he once followed, and relying on the example his own father—Corianton's grandfather—in prophesying of Christ.

The Lord sends angels, including angel parents, into the world as partners in the instruction and redemption of His children and theirs.

Edited April 29, 2025 by halconero

[OGHoosier]

@halconero your opinions are consistently excellent.