Alchohol - Cancer Warning like Cigarettes?

[Nofear]

US Surgeon General says alcohol should have a warning like cigarettes do. https://gizmodo.com/alcohol-should-come-with-cancer-warning-label-like-cigarettes-u-s-surgeon-general-says-2000545354

I was going to think that the alcohol cancer risk is much less than the cigarette cancer risk, but it turns out the subject is complex (https://www.icr.ac.uk/research-and-discoveries/cancer-blogs/detail/science-talk/when-it-comes-to-cancer-how-does-alcohol-compare-to-smoking). But, what really got me was that the alcohol related cancer deaths outnumber the drunk driving fatalities (about 1/3 of all traffic fatalities).

“Alcohol is a well-established, preventable cause of cancer responsible for about 100,000 cases of cancer and 20,000 cancer deaths annually in the United States—greater than the 13,500 alcohol-associated traffic crash fatalities per year in the U.S.—yet the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk,” said Murthy in a statement.

Not sure what to discuss as it's only tangentially related to Mormonism. Mostly an fyi post I guess.

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Nofear said:

US Surgeon General says alcohol should have a warning like cigarettes do. https://gizmodo.com/alcohol-should-come-with-cancer-warning-label-like-cigarettes-u-s-surgeon-general-says-2000545354

I was going to think that the alcohol cancer risk is much less than the cigarette cancer risk, but it turns out the subject is complex (https://www.icr.ac.uk/research-and-discoveries/cancer-blogs/detail/science-talk/when-it-comes-to-cancer-how-does-alcohol-compare-to-smoking). But, what really got me was that the alcohol related cancer deaths outnumber the drunk driving fatalities (about 1/3 of all traffic fatalities).

“Alcohol is a well-established, preventable cause of cancer responsible for about 100,000 cases of cancer and 20,000 cancer deaths annually in the United States—greater than the 13,500 alcohol-associated traffic crash fatalities per year in the U.S.—yet the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk,” said Murthy in a statement.

Not sure what to discuss as it's only tangentially related to Mormonism. Mostly an fyi post I guess.

I think most people are aware of the risks, they just don't care.

[Nofear]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think most people are aware of the risks, they just don't care.

Not quite most. "Less than half of Americans know alcohol can cause cancer..."
Additionally, those that do know, may not be aware of the level of risk. I wasn't in the "most" category. I was ignorant.
 

[bluebell]

35 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Not quite most. "Less than half of Americans know alcohol can cause cancer..."
Additionally, those that do know, may not be aware of the level of risk. I wasn't in the "most" category. I was ignorant.
 

Agreed that most people probably don't know that alcohol causes cancer, but I think most people know that drinking alcohol is inherently risky in general.  And I think that most people who currently drink alcohol aren't going to stop if they are told that it does cause cancer.  

[smac97]

54 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Not quite most. "Less than half of Americans know alcohol can cause cancer..."
Additionally, those that do know, may not be aware of the level of risk. I wasn't in the "most" category. I was ignorant.
 

I was also unaware.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

US Surgeon General says alcohol should have a warning like cigarettes do. https://gizmodo.com/alcohol-should-come-with-cancer-warning-label-like-cigarettes-u-s-surgeon-general-says-2000545354

I was going to think that the alcohol cancer risk is much less than the cigarette cancer risk, but it turns out the subject is complex (https://www.icr.ac.uk/research-and-discoveries/cancer-blogs/detail/science-talk/when-it-comes-to-cancer-how-does-alcohol-compare-to-smoking). But, what really got me was that the alcohol related cancer deaths outnumber the drunk driving fatalities (about 1/3 of all traffic fatalities).

“Alcohol is a well-established, preventable cause of cancer responsible for about 100,000 cases of cancer and 20,000 cancer deaths annually in the United States—greater than the 13,500 alcohol-associated traffic crash fatalities per year in the U.S.—yet the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk,” said Murthy in a statement.

Not sure what to discuss as it's only tangentially related to Mormonism. Mostly an fyi post I guess.

Alcohol consumption is deeply entrenched in many societies and cultures.  This may be part of why the Word of Wisdom was implemented in a gradual way.

From the World Health Organization in 2022:

Quote

No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

Dec 28, 2022, 12:59 PM

The risks and harms associated with drinking alcohol have been systematically evaluated over the years and are well documented. The World Health Organization has now published a statement in The Lancet Public Health: when it comes to alcohol consumption, there is no safe amount that does not affect health.

The risks and harms associated with drinking alcohol have been systematically evaluated over the years and are well documented. The World Health Organization has now published a statement in The Lancet Public Health: when it comes to alcohol consumption, there is no safe amount that does not affect health.

It is the alcohol that causes harm, not the beverage

Alcohol is a toxic, psychoactive, and dependence-producing substance and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco. Alcohol causes at least seven types of cancer, including the most common cancer types, such as bowel cancer and female breast cancer. Ethanol (alcohol) causes cancer through biological mechanisms as the compound breaks down in the body, which means that any beverage containing alcohol, regardless of its price and quality, poses a risk of developing cancer.

The risk of developing cancer increases substantially the more alcohol is consumed. However, latest available data indicate that half of all alcohol-attributable cancers in the WHO European Region are caused by “light” and “moderate” alcohol consumption – less than 1.5 litres of wine or less than 3.5 litres of beer or less than 450 millilitres of spirits per week. This drinking pattern is responsible for the majority of alcohol-attributable breast cancers in women, with the highest burden observed in countries of the European Union (EU). In the EU, cancer is the leading cause of death – with a steadily increasing incidence rate – and the majority of all alcohol-attributable deaths are due to different types of cancers.

"Alcohol is a toxic, psychoactive, and dependence-producing substance and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco."

Wow.  I'm grateful for the Word of Wisdom.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Nofear]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Agreed that most people probably don't know that alcohol causes cancer, but I think most people know that drinking alcohol is inherently risky in general.  And I think that most people who currently drink alcohol aren't going to stop if they are told that it does cause cancer.  

Indeed. Same thing for graphic cigarette warnings. But, they did seem, maybe, to increase the efficacy,  maybe, of other tobacco control methods. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2782665 (too many maybes, more research needed). Right, now, the only "control" we have for alcohol is 21+. Prohibition is largely touted as a failure but many forget why it was so popular for a time. The few years it was in effect had successes that last still (https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits). Alcohol use is involved in more than half of sexual crime on college campuses (https://alcohol.org/health-effects/sexual-assault-college-campus/).

Cancer, violence, death -- the results of alcohol abuse are abundant. While knowing the facts may not be a solution, I tend to be in favor of public education. The public having a more accurate understanding of reality is pretty much always a good thing.

 

[MustardSeed]

Even the most health conscious people I know would insist you pry alcohol out of their cold dead hands. 
 

Im the same with sugar, and I know for a fact it causes heart disease, diabetes, feeds cancer, destroys teeth, etc etc. 
 

 

[bluebell]

39 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Indeed. Same thing for graphic cigarette warnings. But, they did seem, maybe, to increase the efficacy,  maybe, of other tobacco control methods. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2782665 (too many maybes, more research needed). Right, now, the only "control" we have for alcohol is 21+. Prohibition is largely touted as a failure but many forget why it was so popular for a time. The few years it was in effect had successes that last still (https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/6/5/18518005/prohibition-alcohol-public-health-crime-benefits). Alcohol use is involved in more than half of sexual crime on college campuses (https://alcohol.org/health-effects/sexual-assault-college-campus/).

Cancer, violence, death -- the results of alcohol abuse are abundant. While knowing the facts may not be a solution, I tend to be in favor of public education. The public having a more accurate understanding of reality is pretty much always a good thing.

 

I think the biggest factor with something going out of favor is the social one.  When it starts to be unacceptable socially, then it'll probably die out.  That's what happened with cigarettes.  I think the health warnings helped get it there, but it was when all the smoking sections and smoking hotel rooms and ashtrays started to disappear and the no smoking signs came out that really pushed it over the edge.  

Maybe someday we'll get there with alcohol but I don't personally think so.  Back in the day people were willing to go to jail rather than give it up; it's got quite the hold on our culture.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Alcohol consumption is deeply entrenched in many societies and cultures.  This may be part of why the Word of Wisdom was implemented in a gradual way.

From the World Health Organization in 2022:

"Alcohol is a toxic, psychoactive, and dependence-producing substance and has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco."

Wow.  I'm grateful for the Word of Wisdom.

Thanks,

-Smac

There is really little good about alcohol and a lot very bad as we are seeing. By the way, one can abstain from alcohol and tobacco without it being a commandment of one's religion. I know plenty of non LDS that don't drink just because they don't want to or they may be aware of the risks, etc and choose not to.

[smac97]

20 minutes ago, Teancum said:

There is really little good about alcohol and a lot very bad as we are seeing. By the way, one can abstain from alcohol and tobacco without it being a commandment of one's religion.

I agree.  And yet Latter-day Saints are sometimes faulted/ridiculed for abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, despite the practical benefits thereof.

20 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I know plenty of non LDS that don't drink just because they don't want to or they may be aware of the risks, etc and choose not to.

So do I.  My point is that the Word of Wisdom has the practical effect of adding a religious/ideological basis for abstaining from harmful, mind-altering substances.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[MustardSeed]

20 minutes ago, smac97 said:

agree.  And yet Latter-day Saints are sometimes faulted/ridiculed for abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, despite the practical benefits thereof.

43 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I think religious people have a reputation of piety, so there’s some defense mechanisms that kick in and end up attacking in ridicule. Consider vegetarians-same thing. 

[Teancum]

20 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I agree.  And yet Latter-day Saints are sometimes faulted/ridiculed for abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, despite the practical benefits thereof.

Perhaps. But not in my experience.  Most of my adult life I was a practicing Latter-day Saint and nobody, at least to my face, ridiculed me for not drinking. I was offered alcohol frequently due to various events that I attended as a result of my profession. But when I said no I was not ridiculed nor was anyone pushy about it. I think the ridicule is less especially in light of the health issues both alcohol and tobacco pose. 

 

20 minutes ago, smac97 said:

So do I.  My point is that the Word of Wisdom has the practical effect of adding a religious/ideological basis for abstaining from harmful, mind-altering substances.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Ok I do not disagree. The reinforcement from religion can very helpful in avoiding such substances.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I think the biggest factor with something going out of favor is the social one.  When it starts to be unacceptable socially, then it'll probably die out.  That's what happened with cigarettes.  I think the health warnings helped get it there, but it was when all the smoking sections and smoking hotel rooms and ashtrays started to disappear and the no smoking signs came out that really pushed it over the edge.  

Maybe someday we'll get there with alcohol but I don't personally think so.  Back in the day people were willing to go to jail rather than give it up; it's got quite the hold on our culture.

Alcohol is simply a legal drug and IMO much worse for a person than say cannabis. But trying to outlaw alcohol did not work very well and we can blame Utah for the final vote to amend the constitution to end prohibition. 

[Doctor Steuss]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I think the biggest factor with something going out of favor is the social one.  When it starts to be unacceptable socially, then it'll probably die out.  That's what happened with cigarettes.  I think the health warnings helped get it there, but it was when all the smoking sections and smoking hotel rooms and ashtrays started to disappear and the no smoking signs came out that really pushed it over the edge.  

Maybe someday we'll get there with alcohol but I don't personally think so.  Back in the day people were willing to go to jail rather than give it up; it's got quite the hold on our culture.

I do wonder to what extent tobacco use decreasing has to do with social stigma, as opposed to cost. One of the deciding factors for me to quit was when a new tax went into effect, which ballooned the cost.  That combined with companies increasing prices to help offset state-based lawsuit settlements has caused priced to be over 3x as much now as when I gave up the ole cancer sticks. Vaping, which doesn't have those costs (yet) seems to be increasingly popular, despite being questionable as far as safety goes.

Perhaps a gradual increased tax on alcohol (to offset the overall costs that society as a whole must bear) would help decrease use.  Or some state-based suits against some of the big brands because of their marketing, and social costs associated.

Or not.  Just kind of brainstorming/musing because it's more fun than vacuuming the stairs.

Edited January 3 by Doctor Steuss

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Agreed that most people probably don't know that alcohol causes cancer, but I think most people know that drinking alcohol is inherently risky in general.  And I think that most people who currently drink alcohol aren't going to stop if they are told that it does cause cancer.  

But it might change attitudes in the future similar to how it did with cigarette smoking.

[Tony uk]

6 hours ago, Nofear said:

US Surgeon General says alcohol should have a warning like cigarettes do. https://gizmodo.com/alcohol-should-come-with-cancer-warning-label-like-cigarettes-u-s-surgeon-general-says-2000545354

I was going to think that the alcohol cancer risk is much less than the cigarette cancer risk, but it turns out the subject is complex (https://www.icr.ac.uk/research-and-discoveries/cancer-blogs/detail/science-talk/when-it-comes-to-cancer-how-does-alcohol-compare-to-smoking). But, what really got me was that the alcohol related cancer deaths outnumber the drunk driving fatalities (about 1/3 of all traffic fatalities).

“Alcohol is a well-established, preventable cause of cancer responsible for about 100,000 cases of cancer and 20,000 cancer deaths annually in the United States—greater than the 13,500 alcohol-associated traffic crash fatalities per year in the U.S.—yet the majority of Americans are unaware of this risk,” said Murthy in a statement.

Not sure what to discuss as it's only tangentially related to Mormonism. Mostly an fyi post I guess.

I think it maybe an idea, if governments, and the various agencies, provided some kind of health campaign. Just to make an awareness of the matter. Most people are already of the issues relating to alcohol. Many years ago, cigarettes used to be the norm for many. In some cases just like alcohol intake.

 

 There could be a sustained level of on going education regarding alcohol. Similar to the way cigarette smoking has been dealt with.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Doctor Steuss said:

I do wonder to what extent tobacco use decreasing has to do with social stigma, as opposed to cost. One of the deciding factors for me to quit was when a new tax went into effect, which ballooned the cost.  That combined with companies increasing prices to help offset state-based lawsuit settlements has caused priced to be over 3x as much now as when I gave up the ole cancer sticks. Vaping, which doesn't have those costs (yet) seems to be increasingly popular, despite being questionable as far as safety goes.

Perhaps a gradual increased tax on alcohol (to offset the overall costs that society as a whole must bear) would help decrease use.  Or some state-based suits against some of the big brands because of their marketing, and social costs associated.

Or not.  Just kind of brainstorming/musing because it's more fun than vacuuming the stairs.

Good point.  A tax would probably help a lot too.  I don't understand how people afford to smoke.  My sister does and the girl is as poor as a church mouse and yet still manages to buy cigarettes.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tony uk said:

I think it maybe an idea, if governments, and the various agencies, provided some kind of health campaign. Just to make an awareness of the matter. Most people are already of the issues relating to alcohol. Many years ago, cigarettes used to be the norm for many. In some cases just like alcohol intake.

 

 There could be a sustained level of on going education regarding alcohol. Similar to the way cigarette smoking has been dealt with.

It would have to be long term imo and something that is sustained.  I have been seeing more smoking by everyone, but especially the ‘cool’ characters in shows (I watch more international shows so not sure if it is also happening in the US).  It would seem that some restrictions, written or just social have been lifted.  My guess is this will also make smoking more acceptable, which will raise deaths and likely mean people will have to get pushy again.

[bluebell]

Speak of the devil...

https://news.yahoo.com/finance/news/americans-already-ditching-spirits-beer-174240978.html

Quote

 

Americans have already been ditching spirits and beer. Alcohol companies are future proofing themselves

Friday’s warning from the US surgeon general that alcohol is a “well-established, preventable cause of cancer” is perhaps a wakeup call for millions of Americans, but it’s the worst-case scenario that many beer and spirits companies have been preparing for over the years.

Major brewers, including Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch InBev, and spirit giants such as Diageo and Pernod Ricard, have all grown their portfolios with new non-alcoholic drinks to attract an increasing number of consumers, particularly younger ones, who are ditching drinking because of health concerns.

A Gallup poll from August found that almost half of Americans say that having one or two drinks a day is bad for a person’s health — the highest percentage recorded in the survey’s 23 years, and younger adults were most likely to say drinking is bad for health. The poll also showed that just 58% of adults said they drink alcohol, down from 67% in 2022, although Gallup notes it’s relatively close to the historical average of 63% going back to 1939....

 

 

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Speak of the devil...

How very appropriate in this case.

(no, I don’t believe the devil drives people to drink)

Edited January 4 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

I like a good red wine, a peaty scotch, or a dark craft ale. I know it can cause health problems, but health isn't the trump card in my decision making process.

I do follow the Word of Wisdom in the Doctrine and Covenants in other ways:

• when I drink communion wine (not often, because it's not offered at traditional Latin masses), it is pure wine of the grape
• I don't use tobacco (I don't have cows)
• I am into herbal supplements, fresh in their harvest seasons
• I love fresh fruit
• I hardly eat any meat (probably once a month?)
• I eat lots of whole grains (and fed grains to my chickens when I had them)
• I love the fruit of the vine!
• I eat whole wheat, but also those other grains listed that are for other animals, so I guess I'm not perfect here
• I do drink mild drinks made from barley

 

 

[MustardSeed]

41 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I like a good red wine, a peaty scotch, or a dark craft ale. I know it can cause health problems, but health isn't the trump card in my decision making process.

I do follow the Word of Wisdom in the Doctrine and Covenants in other ways:

• when I drink communion wine (not often, because it's not offered at traditional Latin masses), it is pure wine of the grape
• I don't use tobacco (I don't have cows)
• I am into herbal supplements, fresh in their harvest seasons
• I love fresh fruit
• I hardly eat any meat (probably once a month?)
• I eat lots of whole grains (and fed grains to my chickens when I had them)
• I love the fruit of the vine!
• I eat whole wheat, but also those other grains listed that are for other animals, so I guess I'm not perfect here
• I do drink mild drinks made from barley

 

 

You follow it better than most of us then, id bet 

[california boy]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:03 PM, smac97 said:

I agree.  And yet Latter-day Saints are sometimes faulted/ridiculed for abstaining from alcohol and tobacco, despite the practical benefits thereof.

So do I.  My point is that the Word of Wisdom has the practical effect of adding a religious/ideological basis for abstaining from harmful, mind-altering substances.  

Thanks,

-Smac

This point to me seems to loose all credibility when the other half of the WoW is included.  Coffee and tea don't seem to be harmful to the body when used in moderation.  If I was picking other things that are harmful to the body, I would pick excess sugar and saturated fats way over coffee and tea.

[california boy]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:32 PM, Doctor Steuss said:

I do wonder to what extent tobacco use decreasing has to do with social stigma, as opposed to cost. One of the deciding factors for me to quit was when a new tax went into effect, which ballooned the cost.  That combined with companies increasing prices to help offset state-based lawsuit settlements has caused priced to be over 3x as much now as when I gave up the ole cancer sticks. Vaping, which doesn't have those costs (yet) seems to be increasingly popular, despite being questionable as far as safety goes.

Perhaps a gradual increased tax on alcohol (to offset the overall costs that society as a whole must bear) would help decrease use.  Or some state-based suits against some of the big brands because of their marketing, and social costs associated.

Or not.  Just kind of brainstorming/musing because it's more fun than vacuuming the stairs.

Where I saw the biggest shift away from tobacco in California was when smoking was outlawed in all buildings open to the public including bars and a distance of 20 feet from doorways of those buildings.