Re-visiting Christian Nationalism

[ttribe]

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

I went 89-90 so this fits me too.

I am a rule follower who doesn't like being told what to do if that makes sense.

100% makes sense. I'm very much the same way. Probably why, eventually, in my career I had to start my own practice. Bosses suck.

[Tacenda]

This sounds hard to believe, but this president might not go away in four years. https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/20/business/elon-musk-wealth-government-help/index.html

[Rain]

15 minutes ago, ttribe said:

100% makes sense. I'm very much the same way. Probably why, eventually, in my career I had to start my own practice. Bosses suck.

Lol. I got a scholarship to get a degree in teaching with the stipulation I had to teach in Utah for 4 years.  Unfortunately, in my first actual teaching class I learned how much administration control would have in my class so I ended up changing my major and needing to pay back the funds I had received.

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

Lol. I got a scholarship to get a degree in teaching with the stipulation I had to teach in Utah for 4 years.  Unfortunately, in my first actual teaching class I learned how much administration control would have in my class so I ended up changing my major and needing to pay back the funds I had received.

I have very much had to resist saying to bosses and supervisors and mentors - "I know what to do. Leave me alone and I'll get it done well."

[jkwilliams]

9 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I have very much had to resist saying to bosses and supervisors and mentors - "I know what to do. Leave me alone and I'll get it done well."

I’m pretty easygoing, but people have learned not to push me. A director once said, “If you really want to get things done around here, just piss off John.” 

[Doctor Steuss]

If nothing else, there are some aspects of this thread that may help people who have difficulty understanding, or relating to, people who are transgendered.

It’s kind of like how some people internally identify as Christian, but outwardly, there’s nothing that would allow someone to make the determination that they follow Christ.  Instead, people have to rely on the person's adoption of social religion-affirming cues.

You have to rely on the social cues of their religion-affirming care to determine that their inner identity is Christian because outwardly, everything points in the opposite direction.

I believe that trans-religion people deserve our love and support.

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, Pink said:

You obviously left the mormon cult and couldn't handle the thought of thinking for yourself so you decided to join the liberal cult so you could still "benefit" from group think.  Liberalism is cult mentality on steroids. So go Rejoice in killing babies then maybe after lunch you can use skin color as a weapon to dehumanize people just like you liberals are taught.

 

Bwaaaahahahaaaa!🤣

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Feel free to point to what you see as constitutional violations in the last few weeks.  I'm happy to hear what you have to say.

Start with his EO overturning the birthright citizenship provided by the 14th Amendment. This has been held a constitutional in I believe at least 2 SCOTUS decisions and has not been limited to black Americans freed via the 13th amendment.

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Sigh.

I did not say otherwise.

I agree.

I don't think he incited a riot.

Meanwhile, I don't recall any fretting about the billions of dollars in property damage, hundreds of injuries, and dozens of deaths in the BLM/Antifa riots.  

I have previously condemned all of this stuff, the Jan 6 stuff, the BLM/Antifa stuff, all of it.

Some of it.  I've also read this:

And this more recent one:

I'll be curious to see what the outcome of this investigation will be.

And this: How Jack Smith Destroyed His Own Case Against Trump

Yep.  Not sure you should be trumpeting things based on the legal prowess of Jack Smith.

Hence my relative lack of interest in Jack Smith's one-sided say-so.

A unanimous reversal by SCOTUS.  Wow.

Yes, Judge Chutkan has just been covering herself with jurisprudential glory lately: Judge Chutkan Should Be Disqualified From Hearing Trump Cases After Defying His J6 Order

"There was no apparent reason for the public release of the filing, except to influence the election."

Yep.

"The Smith investigation should be a case study for future prosecutors in what not to do."

Yep.

I am curious if you have any questions or concerns about Mr. Biden's son and the sweetheart deals and pardons and such.

Again, Jack Smith is not going to fare well in the long run.

And your side brings up Jan 6, despite Mr. Trump's specific call for "peaceful" behavior.  And even then, I was disgusted with what happened on Jan 6.

In contrast, most folks on your side appear to have boo to say about the BLM/Antifa riots.  Billions in damages.  Hundreds of injuries.  Dozens of deaths.  Ho-hum.

Malarky.  

From one of the above article: 

 

It's not a dodge.  You are flummoxed that a person like me can have voted for Mr. Trump despite his moral failings, and I feel the same way about people who voted for Mr. Biden and/or Ms. Harris despite their moral failings.

From a previous post:

 

Yes.  I explained my reasoning for why I voted for one of two deeply flawed candidates.

Again, from my previous posts:

I haven't given Mr. Trump a pass.

Have you given Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris passes?

I dislike her behaviors, too.  And I disliked Mr. Biden's behaviors and policies as well.

And I didn't "condemn" anyone.  Get a grip.

I don't think so.  

Reasonable minds can disagree about such things.

But I don't endorse them, nor have I ignored them.  Perhaps some day you can appreciate the difference.

Thanks,

-Smac

Just an FYI, I put little credence into anything Turley says or writes. I find him no more truthful and totally part of the Fox News propaganda machine.  In other words he is a hack. His disparagement of Jack Smith is shameful. Smith has a stellar reputation and a follow the law prosecutor and nary a negative thing was said about him until he was assigned as a special prosecutor.  Turley's comment that we will never know if the 2020 election was honest and fair and that while the election may not have been stolen it was not for lack of the democrats trying.  Utter nonsense an pablum. The 2020 election was as secure and fair as any other election and those in the know state it was the most secure in our history.  I think it is good to avoid baseless speculation and conspiracy webs. Turley should do the same. And I take such claims that I am now staring to see about the 2024 election where some are arguing that due to voter suppression as well as around 4 million votes being tossed for one reason or another, that Harris actually won.  These days the only was the GOP think elections are fair is if they win. It was amazing to see the transition of power and the poise and composure with which VP Harris certified the election, unlike Trump who is such a petulant narcissistic child he cannot man up  and accept the fact he lost. Thus he tried to steal and election and incited a riot.

 

But you failed to answer my question. DO YOU think the 2020 election was fairly won by Biden. Yes or no please no long diatribes please and no dumping all sorts of opinions and comments of other. Yes or no.

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, ttribe said:

 

Correct. I was referring only to study of Church history.

Yes, I am significantly older than you. For frame of reference, I served my mission (at age 19) from '91-'93. Ed Decker and his minions were making the rounds with the Godmakers when I was a teen and I was very much taught at home, in Sunday School, and in Seminary, that I should only be studying Church History from explicitly approved materials (e.g. lesson manuals and referenced items) and implicitly approved materials (which could be obtained from Deseret Book). I took that to heart. As a missionary, I purchased and read B.H. Roberts' History of the Church. That was my first introduction to some of the more, shall we say, unusual items in Church History (e.g. Zelph, Joseph's glass looking trial, etc.).

RSR wasn't published until 2005. By that time, I was almost 8 years into my career, had been married for 11 years, had two children, had held a number of callings and was very busy with life. I didn't give any thought about branching out in my studies until a few years later when I got involved in the predecessor to this board. The rabbit hold loomed large at that point.

Not tons older. By my math there's a 16 year age gap between us and about a 10 year gap of when we first were introduced to more unusual points of history or viewpoints about our beliefs. But I would agree that the gap with the rise of the tech age makes this extremely significant. I started really studying my religion and exploring faith around 14 (2002). By then the Internet was fairly well established and message boards were popping up everywhere. So a good portion of that early exploration was net-based.  By the time I went on my mission in 2010, I'd been online discussing religion, including on this board, for 8 years and I'd begun to have a natural understanding of researching source materials, conflicting opinions on the same events, etc. My 20's watched a lot of the cultural transitions around research and the expansion of scholarly sources within the church. 

FTR, I read RSR relatively late...in my early 30's I believe. Not from hesitation, moreso because I struggle to read longer non-fiction in book form and didn't have audible till then. 

As Rain mentioned, my family life is also fairly different from stereotypical LDS members. Part of that was the religious teachings at home was super limited and I didn't fully trust the main source of it (my mom...bit of a complicated relationship there). I remember more arguments around our different outlooks on religion than I do accordance and enriching experiences from it.

So the next source was church. I would say during my teens it was more of an average ward experience in Texas. But that was a total of 4 years. The rest would occur in ysa's around BYU-Provo and then Spanish wards in my 30's. I've shuffled wards more times than I can count. Sometimes in drastic ways. And quite often the smaller culture of the people in it effected how things were presented and taught. 

For me there's just less of an experience of uniformity in thought than I've heard others describe in theirs. I can see where it comes from, but it feels more like an option in outlook rather than a mandate. 

3 hours ago, ttribe said:

I was very much a rule-follower in my youth and young adulthood. That's probably a significant contributing factor to me getting a couple of degrees in accounting.

Lol, probably. Needless to say, you don't usually end up a sex therapist before marriage as an active latter-day saint without being a little bit of a boundary pusher. I was never a rebel without a cause. There was a lot in the church that I could readily see was good and had reasons that I could believe in it. But I'm constantly curious and constantly need a reason for rules if I'm going to follow them. And if I do "follow" them it's more likely to be on my own terms. I'm more careful in groups, because I recognize the need to blend my own person and experiences into the whole. I don't like overpowering people with my own POV's. I do at times, but I try not to. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

Can you accommodate the possibility that people like myself may have viewed Mr. Biden and Ms. Harris as having "low character," such that I could "never vote" for either of them?

Other than state you think they have low character you have not bothered to share why.  I would be interested.  Not for argument sake. Just curious. I find it rather odd you feel this way. I don't think Biden or Harris are perfect but they seem to be fairly decent humans and seem to love their country, though you think they don't, and have been committed to public service. 

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

It's hard to deny that he is a "man of accomplishment."  He's a billionaire, after all.

He inherited a boat load and he would have been richer had he simply invested it. He has a track record of bankruptcy and fraud and well, a lot more shady behavior. But he is an accomplished con man, one of the most successful in history and very successful branding himself. Had he not landed the sweet deal with NBC for his reality show he likely would have gone broke. And America certainly would not view him as some business whiz.  His show was all smoke and mirrors, portraying himself as something he is not. NBC created a myth.

[Teancum]

22 hours ago, smac97 said:

I was also quite impressed with his reaction to the assassination attempt.

You said this a few times. What impressed you?

[Doctor Steuss]

29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

He inherited a boat load and he would have been richer had he simply invested it. He has a track record of bankruptcy and fraud and well, a lot more shady behavior. But he is an accomplished con man, one of the most successful in history and very successful branding himself. Had he not landed the sweet deal with NBC for his reality show he likely would have gone broke. And America certainly would not view him as some business whiz.  His show was all smoke and mirrors, portraying himself as something he is not. NBC created a myth.

It's disheartening how many people confuse a lack of ethics and morals for an excess of intellect.

Although, I guess there is a kind of "genius" in doing things that no person with ethics and morals would ever dare to do.  Like stealing from charities, or being involved in an insurance scheme to profit off of the death of sick Jewish kids, or engaging in rampant wage and materials theft.

I hope I never find myself compelled to defend fealty to an adjudicated predator with a documented history of walking in on kids getting dressed that's been praised by the leadership of the American Nazi Party, and KKK.  Viewing the first-past-the-post induced duopoly as a team sport with unwavering party loyalty is so hard for me to wrap my head (and heart) around.

Edited February 13, 2025 by Doctor Steuss

[jkwilliams]

16 minutes ago, Doctor Steuss said:

It's disheartening how many people confuse a lack of ethics and morals for an excess of intellect.

Although, I guess there is a kind of "genius" in doing things that no person with ethics and morals would ever dare to do.  Like stealing from charities, or being involved in an insurance scheme to profit off of the death of sick Jewish kids, or engaging in rampant wage and materials theft.

I hope I never find myself compelled to defend fealty to an adjudicated predator with a documented history of walking in on kids getting dressed that's been praised by the leadership of the American Nazi Party, and KKK.  Viewing the first-past-the-post induced duopoly as a team sport with unwavering party loyalty is so hard for me to wrap my head (and heart) around.

It really has been fascinating to see self-professed Christians making excuses for (or even applauding) some egregiously appalling behavior. 

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Other than state you think they have low character you have not bothered to share why.  I would be interested.  Not for argument sake. Just curious. I find it rather odd you feel this way. I don't think Biden or Harris are perfect but they seem to be fairly decent humans and seem to love their country, though you think they don't, and have been committed to public service. 

Yep. Jim Comer spent years trying to dig up something on the “Biden crime family” and failed. But, sure, orders of magnitude more corrupt than Trump. 

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

He inherited a boat load and he would have been richer had he simply invested it. He has a track record of bankruptcy and fraud and well, a lot more shady behavior. But he is an accomplished con man, one of the most successful in history and very successful branding himself. Had he not landed the sweet deal with NBC for his reality show he likely would have gone broke. And America certainly would not view him as some business whiz.  His show was all smoke and mirrors, portraying himself as something he is not. NBC created a myth.

Had people actually paid attention to the show, it would have been obvious that his children and employees did the actual work, while he just showed up for the photo ops. 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

Had people actually paid attention to the show, it would have been obvious that his children and employees did the actual work, while he just showed up for the photo ops. 

That’s what he does now, too. 

[Teancum]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Neat, then it may interest you to know that the American Bar Association recently put out a statement warning that Trump’s attacks on the judiciary are undermining the rule of law.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5139300-bar-association-trump-administration-attacks-on-judges-cross-the-line/

The Deep State is not a real thing. It is a bunch of government bureaucrats and scientists and other professionals doing their jobs. Some are incompetent. Some are very competent. There is no conspiracy amongst them to accomplish far-ranging goals across multiple federal agencies and an moment’s reflection will reveal how ridiculous the idea is. They wouldn’t benefit from any massive conspiracy. They aren’t ideologically united. This myth was dreamed up by people who want to villainize government workers so they can hack and slash which is what they are doing.

If the President were setting policy within the bounds of the law I would be a lot less concerned. If they weren’t threatening to ignore court rulings I would be a lot less concerned. If they weren’t ripping things down and wrecking things without understanding what they are doing I would be a lot less concerned. If they weren’t vetting security agencies and loyalty testing employees for personal loyalty to the President and his agenda that would make me feel much better. Especially since that last one is what happens in failing democracies before they turn into authoritarian states.

This isn’t just a regular policy disagreement. It is a threat to constitutional norms. We are heading for some constitutional crises and I hope our institutions can survive them. I hope my worries turn out not to actually happen. When I talk to my friends in Europe their comment on hearing the news is to ask why people aren’t protesting and rioting in the streets and burning things as that would be the result where they are if these things were happening in their nation. They know authoritarian states better than Americans do and have seen these kinds of transformations.

This all day long.  The Tea Party/MAGA and Heritage foundation types made it all up to scare people up into a frenzy. And conservative religious people, as well as other heavy right leaning people gobble it up like they do so many other conspiracy theories and it has worked because well, here we are.  And we may be headed to protesting and burning and riots. My wife went to a small protest today and the local library where Congresswomen Tenny's staff was meeting with constituents. Tenny is uber MAGA and all in for Trump's authoritarian power grab. It was peacful but who knows what will happen. If we move towards the fascism we seem to be headed for who know what will happen?

[Teancum]

21 hours ago, smac97 said:

Yes, it is.

A DOGE Origin Story: How Barack Obama Laid The Groundwork For Elon Musk

With a new home for DOGE in the White House, here's what you need to know

More here.

We'll see how this stuff pans out.

Well, we'll see.

Thanks,

_Smac

I don't think this makes it an agency on the same level as the DOA, USAID, Dept of Defense, Dept of Interior  etc. If so then Musk should be appointed and the confirmed by the senate.  It still seems more like and advisory board.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

Yep. Jim Comer spent years trying to dig up something on the “Biden crime family” and failed. But, sure, orders of magnitude more corrupt than Trump. 

Yet that does not stop them from continuing to use the term and make accusations without evidence, Even after their star witness confessed to lying about Biden. I am an equal opportunity applier of the rule of law. Said all along if Biden did something illegal and there is evidence then indict. Other wise stop lying about hi.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

I don't think this makes it an agency on the same level as the DOA, USAID, Dept of Defense, Dept of Interior  etc. If so then Musk should be appointed and the confirmed by the senate.  It still seems more like and advisory board.

Filled with really weird unpaid interns.

This retroactive “it was just renaming an agency” is something they made up once they realized what they were doing is not legal.

[The Nehor]

Oh, and now they are ripping apart the already understaffed VA. Gotta make sure vets suffer too I suppose.

[Tacenda]

Mind blowing, that the kids/hackers have access to everyone of our records in the US.

 

[Teancum]

@Analyticsjust started a thread on.....that was immediately shut down. Yet this one remains open. Maybe he should post the OP from that thread here. I