Addiction is offensive to God?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Good point: parents do lots of things that offend children and God by doing things that directly or indirectly rob their children of their agency. Once they understand what they did, they will only find relief in God's grace. God reaches out to the children, as with all of us, so they can overcome these impositions upon their agency.

I was thinking more about how when we hear “offense” there is responsibility for that offense attached to it and often that is treated with guilt and shame…which can be a major problem if we are addressing addictions that are not the fault of those who have them.  It seems unlikely these days, but I suppose some might truly believe smoking and vaping are harmless…there are intelligent people arguing this even.  Alcohol seems even a harder sell that way…if one is dealing with an informed, rational being…but so many of us are not that.    Exposure when a child when a parent has not taught and impose proper restrictions and even have enabled drinking or other addiction prone activities at a young age seems to remove most, if not all responsibility to me (even if there is some sense they are doing wrong, say by taking alcohol from a bar cart when parents are not home) because kids don’t usually have a sense of physical vulnerability in that way (getting beaten up or hurting oneself by falling, sure, probably getting poisoned too, but truly understanding that something gives comfort is bad for you because of damage that will show up sometime in the future or that it can change your behaviour in harmful ways….not sure when that ability to truly understand those kinds of consequences is developed.  There is also the problem of choosing between two evils for a good cause.  It was pretty common in the past for people with my movement disorder to self medicate in order to be able to get up the next day and go to work or care for the kids.  I would have been doing the same if I hadn’t been a member of the Church.  Instead I took the antidepressants the doctors prescribed because when they heard “I sleep for 13 hours a day and am still exhausted” they heard “depression even though I assured them I was only frustrated and worried, not depressed (I wasn’t, I had taken enough psych classes to know the symptoms).  Should they be shamed because they drank alcohol to sleep and some got addicted, but I got off of the shame routine because I took pills that didn’t lead to addiction for me?

Edited October 7, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

Addiction is a shameful choice when you start it.  Though involuntary afterwards.

And if you don’t know the behaviour can lead to addiction, why would it be shameful?

I was prescribed drugs that often lead to addiction…it has caused a massive opioid epidemic and , but at the time it was presented as a wonder drug (and it was in some ways for me to begin with).  If I had been one of the many unfortunates who became addicted to it, would the choice to start using it—knowing even at that time I would be taking it every day for the rest of my life if it worked for me though not concerned about addiction—be shameful?

Is it shameful for a kid to sit down to play video games with his friends if he then becomes addicted to gaming?  But not shameful for his friends because they don’t?

Is is shameful to drink wine with the family at a holiday dinner or have a beer with friends after work (assuming you haven’t made commitments not to partake) for those who find this is the beginning of their addiction to alcohol?

Edited October 7, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

In President Nelsons conference talk, he stated the following:

He seems to frame addiction as a choice, or a "God" that we "look to", rather than a mental health illness/disorder that overtakes us.  According to the church's own 12 step program, it states: 

He does acknowledge in his talk that it robs us of freedom but seems to place blame/shame on the captive as if it is an offensive choice to look to it rather than God for solace.  

He calls it an "obsession" like a "God" to us.  Addiction and obsession are not the same.  People with addictions are often deeply ashamed of it, don't want it, hate it, and want nothing more than to be free from it.  It is not an obsession!  It is not a God to them, it is a curse!   

I have debated bringing this up, but I am troubled by the shame that this will heap on the heads of those suffering with this mental illness.  Shame only makes the cords of addiction stronger.   This is not helpful; it is hurtful language to those who suffer from this illness.   

I feel like I have been thrown back in time to the 80's style priesthood session porn-shame talks.  I thought we were past this kind of rhetoric in the church.  I thought that we were past the shame-based addiction talks?  I thought the leadership better understood addiction and addicts today.  How does leadership expect to address this problem if they don't understand it?  

Furthermore, why would a mental health disorder "offend God"?   Is he that fragile that he would take it personal?  Are there no actual victims of this mental health illness/disorder?  

Spiritual and professional help is needed.  On that we agree.  I just don't find the sentiment above spiritually healing or edifying.   You offend God you obsessive, false God worshipping, weakling!   

While no person or prophet is infallible, it seems that the upper leadership should be better educated on topics like addiction.  This kind of language can really mess up a kid who looks up to these men and takes their word as the voice of God to them.  I know, because I was that kid.  Healing only came when I was able to overcome and abandon such toxic/harmful notions. 

 

 

 

 

Yesterday I remembered a time in church, a lesson, we were taught to keep our thoughts clean and replace them with a hymn and from then on I honed in on terrible thoughts and would try to replace it with a hymn or something. I liken this to the problem we've had or have in the church where in a bishop's interview it's maybe brought up in the youth's worthiness interview. Maybe now the bishops no longer ask these questions, such as do you masturbate or watch porn. But I believe these patterns only made it worse, such as my experience with keeping my thoughts clean.   The shame about it, and the many instances where one views some porn and then all the sudden they are going to the bishop thinking they have an addiction because maybe their spouse or parent says they do and they need to repent, and the cycle appears and turns into a nightmare, even leading to divorce or ? Or a youth/adult is so ashamed when not being able to take the Sacrament and they go into a cycle where they think they're horrible and they become depressed and they give up and think they're nothing but the lowest. I wish I could put into words what I am trying to say decently, but I think you're dead on pogi. 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Tacenda

[Smiley McGee]

What happens when God is offended? Someone develops an alcohol addiction, God is offended, then what? He refuses to help? He punishes the person somehow? What’s the incremental impact to the addict, beyond the consequences of the addiction, of God’s taking offense?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

all. If substance abuse disorder is a disease then that disease, whether one afflicted is able to recover, or not, should not keep one out of God's presence.  

No more than heart disease or another illness would. 

Not eternally speaking.  But as someone who has chronic illness, yes, illness that has nothing to do with sin, but simply limits me has robbed me of many opportunities to seek God and to feel closer to him and his spirit, including cutting off my access to the spirit through depression and anxiety, lowering my ability to be aware and just my brain not functioning in oh so many ways it usually does.

My daughter does not believe she experienced the Spirit in the past or now because she has learned to mistrust her internal experience due to a multitude of disorders that affect her emotions and perceptions. She does not have any interest in seeking God because of that.  This is not a sin imo, but it still is keeping her out of God’s presence.

Sin is not the only thing that keeps us out of the presence of God or robs us of freedom to do many things.  Ignorance and inabilities do as well

Edited October 7, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I can certainly judge whether or not his words are helpful or useful and clearly they are not. And I would guess ( though I may be wrong) that you have little experience or knowledge in dealing with people that have substance abuse disorders.  If you are interested I recommend you start with the Book In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts:

It certainly changed my opinion on addiction and the nature of addiction as well as how poorly we treat those with addictions.  President Nelson's comment incorporate one of most worst approaches. As for a prophet, no I don't believe he or anyone is a prophet.  For someone who believes he is you should expect better. Try to take your "use of certain substances is a sin" glasses off for a bit on this one.

As for being a theist, I don't know.  But I am fairly certain that if there is such a being and that being was able to create the universe we dwell in that that being is not concerned much about what we eat and drink and certainly does not support the nonsense President Nelson stated. And keep in mind there are other things a member of the church can do that is not considered a "sin" that can lead to addictive behavior that is detrimental.

It's an interesting idea, that you don't know if God exists but you do know that if He does, he agrees with your take on this.  That (an unknown followed up with a statement of fact about the unknown) could be an interesting discussion in a separate thread.

But as to the bold, I was meaning to suggest that asking someone to judge how a prophet could have improved when teaching a concept that the person really disagrees with is kind of like asking a PETA member how the chef could have improved in his cooking of the steak.   The answer is less likely to be relevant to people who eat steak.  The bias is too great.  

It would be like someone asking me how to improve a tomato salad.  The only honest answer I could give is "throw it away".  

[CV75]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

I was thinking more about how when we hear “offense” there is responsibility for that offense attached to it and often that is treated with guilt and shame…which can be a major problem if we are addressing addictions that are not the fault of those who have them.  It seems unlikely these days, but I suppose some might truly believe smoking and vaping are harmless…there are intelligent people arguing this even.  Alcohol seems even a harder sell that way.    Exposure when a child when a parent has not taught and impose proper restrictions and even have enabled drinking or other addiction prone activities at a young age seems to remove most, if not all responsibility to me (even if there is some sense they are doing wrong, say by taking alcohol from a bar cart when parents are not home) because kids don’t usually have a sense of physical vulnerability in that way (getting beaten up or hurting oneself by falling, sure, probably getting poisoned too, but truly understanding that something gives comfort is bad for you because of damage that will show up sometime in the future or that it can change your behaviour in harmful ways….not sure when that ability to truly understand those kinds of consequences is developed.

Accountability and agency go hand in hand so that "all people are responsible for their own motives, attitudes, desires, and actions." Agency and Accountability (churchofjesuschrist.org). The ability to understand might not develop (or if too far gone, re-develop) in this life, but evidently can co-exist with obsessive traits, addictive personality and addiction.

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

What happens when God is offended? Someone develops an alcohol addiction, God is offended, then what? He refuses to help? He punishes the person somehow? What’s the incremental impact to the addict, beyond the consequences of the addiction, of God’s taking offense?

Oooh, that's an interesting question....

I would say that offending God is just another way of saying sinned, so what happens is the same thing that happens anytime we sin.  We distance ourselves from Him and His Spirit.  That can have some negative consequences (probably depending on how far the distance between us and God is and also on how willing one is to change and move closer back to Him) but in my experience those negative consequences do not come because He has refused to help or because He is punishing anyone.

In my experience God never refuses to help anyone who seeks it (even those who seek it but maybe don't know how to seek Him yet).

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

I don't find that very helpful for the addict at all. If substance abuse disorder is a disease then that disease, whether one afflicted is able to recover, or not, should not keep one out of God's presence.  No more than heart disease or another illness would.  You simply see this through the lens of sin. It not sin. It is a disease.  But the first sentence is good advice.

Can you pick out which phrases in your post are strawmen, which are false, and which are ignorant?

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Nobody chooses to be an addict.  Maybe you meant the choice to initially use certain substances is shameful (it is not).

That is what I meant. And people consciously choose to start all the time, especially in LDS circles. It may not always be a choice, but it's not always an accident. I guess you could mean those for which addiction comes from depression, and it's the depression that caused them to be drawn to their vice of choice before chemical addiction even became a factor.

I am reminded of my lessons in the Buddhist principle of non-attachment, and the realm of Hungry Ghosts. In the path towards nirvana, a permanent state of joy, attachment is one of the causes of suffering, or dissatisfaction. Buddhism teaches that we are inherently joyful and that it is simply a matter of surrendering and relinquishing our misguided habits and preconceptions so that we can experience the essential Buddahood that is within us all. To have mindfulness, to be presently aware and modify or maintain behaviors according to one’s values seems to be efficacious for substance addiction and behavioral addictions, such as opioid use and internet gaming (I was a level 90 Wizard in Everquest).

 

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

  The only honest answer I could give is "throw it away".  

Truth!

[CV75]

33 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

What happens when God is offended? Someone develops an alcohol addiction, God is offended, then what? He refuses to help? He punishes the person somehow? What’s the incremental impact to the addict, beyond the consequences of the addiction, of God’s taking offense?

God continues to reach out in love. The impact on the addict is not God's punishment, but the addict's coming to appreciate that God is offended in their behalf for good reason and for their sake, that He loves them, and will help them. This appreciation may be accompanied with sorrow and regret at first, but then much more so with hope.

[bluebell]

Just now, Calm said:

Truth!

My mother in law onces made a tomato aspic as a side for Thanksgiving dinner.  For those who don't know, an aspic is basically savory jello with veggies and sometimes meat in it.  I couldn't even watch other people eat it.  My hatred of tomatoes is psychological. 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Accountability and agency go hand in hand so that "all people are responsible for their own motives, attitudes, desires, and actions." 

Depends on what is meant by responsibility.  Do you believe an adult who was brain damaged at birth and therefore never developed mentally past the age of six is responsible for their own motives, attitudes, desires, and actions?

There is nothing I have done when the weather gets stormy in the middle of summer heat and I get depressed and withdraw to my room and refuse to even try to go to church or a family reunion or help my husband cook and clean.  I am not in control of my motive, attitude, desire or action at that time.  It exists until it no longer exists….which thankfully is not that long.  There is not a medication or behaviour I have found that can stop that from happening when it happens.

So tell me how I am responsible for that in your view?

Edited October 7, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My mother in law onces made a tomato aspic as a side for Thanksgiving dinner.  For those who don't know, an aspic is basically savory jello with veggies and sometimes meat in it.  I couldn't even watch other people eat it.  My hatred of tomatoes is psychological. 

Okay….now that is a bit neurotic.

[CV75]

22 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Oooh, that's an interesting question....

I would say that offending God is just another way of saying sinned, so what happens is the same thing that happens anytime we sin.  We distance ourselves from Him and His Spirit.  That can have some negative consequences (probably depending on how far the distance between us and God is and also on how willing one is to change and move closer back to Him) but in my experience those negative consequences do not come because He has refused to help or because He is punishing anyone.

In my experience God never refuses to help anyone who seeks it (even those who seek it but maybe don't know how to seek Him yet).

I think that when we look at addiction not as a sin but as something to be avoided because, while not a sin, still robs us of moral agency and just plain happiness and potential, the actual sins that accompany it (i.e., obsessions-as-gods) are addressed more appropriately, as are the more clinical aspects. 

[CV75]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Depends on what is meant by responsibility.  Do you believe an adult who was brain damaged at birth and therefore never developed mentally past the age of six is responsible for their own motives, attitudes, desires, and actions?

There is nothing I have done when the weather gets stormy in the middle of summer heat and I get depressed and withdraw to my room and refuse to even try to go to church or a family reunion or help my husband cook and clean.  I am not in control of my motive, attitude, desire or action at that time.  It exists until it no longer exists….which thankfully is not that long.  There is not a medication or behaviour I have found that can stop that from happening when it happens.

So tell me how I am responsible for that in your view?

As to your first question, "No," and thankfully God is in charge of rectifying all that while I try to help the child feel as comfortable, safe and happy as possible, and safe for others.

As to your second question, from your description I don't believe you are responsible for the condition you have. You seem to understand it enough to take the long view, accept the temporary nature of these episodes with gratitude (another healthy attitude), and do what you can when you can (church, family, chores, etc.).

[Smiley McGee]

22 minutes ago, CV75 said:

God continues to reach out in love. The impact on the addict is not God's punishment, but the addict's coming to appreciate that God is offended in their behalf for good reason and for their sake, that He loves them, and will help them. This appreciation may be accompanied with sorrow and regret at first, but then much more so with hope.

So it doesn’t change God’s love or His willingness to help, he just wants us to know He’s offended?

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

In President Nelsons conference talk, he stated the following:

He seems to frame addiction as a choice, or a "God" that we "look to", rather than a mental health illness/disorder that overtakes us.  According to the church's own 12 step program, it states: 

He does acknowledge in his talk that it robs us of freedom but seems to place blame/shame on the captive as if it is an offensive choice to look to it rather than God for solace.  

He calls it an "obsession" like a "God" to us.  Addiction and obsession are not the same.  People with addictions are often deeply ashamed of it, don't want it, hate it, and want nothing more than to be free from it.  It is not an obsession!  It is not a God to them, it is a curse!   

I have debated bringing this up, but I am troubled by the shame that this will heap on the heads of those suffering with this mental illness.  Shame only makes the cords of addiction stronger.   This is not helpful; it is hurtful language to those who suffer from this illness.   

I feel like I have been thrown back in time to the 80's style priesthood session porn-shame talks.  I thought we were past this kind of rhetoric in the church.  I thought that we were past the shame-based addiction talks?  I thought the leadership better understood addiction and addicts today.  How does leadership expect to address this problem if they don't understand it?  

Honestly, It completely went over my head as a source of shame until I listened to someone else mention a similar concern and was like "oh yeah, they could"

I think I was picturing people who are still in denial that they have a problem that needs help to overcome. Especially for issues that he mentioned that I've seen people minimize or dismiss as a serious concern (like anger). I've met more than one person who isn't fully willing to come to terms with the fact that what they're doing is a problem. And I'm always happy when referrals to seeking professional help are made. I was also happy as well to see it mentioned in a wide range of concerns including food and gaming as opposed to something extra and especially offensive. 

I could see how it could lead to shame....particularly for those who've moved passed pretending they don't have a problem and have entered "I need to nip this" and are finding it's harder to nip than they expected and then dive into shame cycles with it. So I can see how it could hurt...I was just thinking about the potential of areas where this would apply first.   

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Furthermore, why would a mental health disorder "offend God"?   Is he that fragile that he would take it personal?  Are there no actual victims of this mental health illness/disorder?  

Again, I don't know if I took it that way and I can imagine this concern being offensive to God. At least by the definition used in the guide to the scriptures: "To break a divine law, to sin, or to cause discomfort or injury; also to displease or annoy." Many of the behaviors can break divine law, they are sin, they can cause discomfort and/or injury to self or others, and I can't picture these behaviors and problems being pleasing to God, personally. Plus the way nelson used the word is the more broad layman phrase that covers a wide range of issues and behaviors that are often not recognized as addictions professionally. 

I don't fully subscribe to the illness/medical model for addiction....so it's a little weird to me to describe the people afflicted with the behavioral addictions (using the loose layman word) as victims. I think of them more as people who learned a poor coping method or three to problems that metastasized and is now eating up their life, wreaking havoc on their psyche, and harming the lives of their loved ones. I feel for them, because parts of their experience happen at vulnerable points of development. But I also see the strings of short sighted choices that kept the momentum of that train going and the impact on others they can't or won't address.    

3 hours ago, pogi said:

Spiritual and professional help is needed.  On that we agree.  I just don't find the sentiment above spiritually healing or edifying.   You offend God you obsessive, false God worshipping, weakling!   

Yeah, definitely didn't read that in his talk. 

3 hours ago, pogi said:

While no person or prophet is infallible, it seems that the upper leadership should be better educated on topics like addiction.  This kind of language can really mess up a kid who looks up to these men and takes their word as the voice of God to them.  I know, because I was that kid.  Healing only came when I was able to overcome and abandon such toxic/harmful notions. 

I've had some exposure to almost all of the behaviors he listed. There are absolutely people who fall easily into shame and will likely find this message shame inducing. Of course, many of those were so shame oriented that even a hint of disapproval (however faint) could lead them spiraling into despair and self-loathing. This talk may hit them hard, but so would 3 others we wouldn't expect and they would miss all the messages around and in these talks that framed them as loved children of heavenly parents with infinite potential and ability who have Christ to help them through their weaknesses no matter how bad they are, just like everyone else. Constantly tip-toeing around the shamers by validating them and insisting they're good doesn't work. Helping them to learn to tackle their shame and manage critique healthily does.

There are others who minimize and ignore their problem or blame others for their problems. IMHO, insisting on the truth of the cost of their actions is necessary if there's any hope for them to ever change. Where I may give a careful helping-hand to the shamer, I would insist on refocusing culpability to the blamer. Anything less can inadvertently enable their unhealthy patterns. To me, these are those where Nelson's message makes the most sense and the ones I automatically pictured. 

 

 With luv,

BD

 

[bluebell]

41 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think that when we look at addiction not as a sin but as something to be avoided because, while not a sin, still robs us of moral agency and just plain happiness and potential, the actual sins that accompany it (i.e., obsessions-as-gods) are addressed more appropriately, as are the more clinical aspects. 

I can get behind that. 

[pogi]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

From the perspective that he framed it--because an addiction becomes our god--I can see where he is coming from. 

Framing it in such a way is precisely the problem for me.  It implies that we choose it over God for solace.  It is not a choice.  It is a disease.   He clearly states that God is offended at this.   Why would he be offended at something we don't even choose?   Framing it in such a way shows a significant misunderstanding of what this mental illness is all about.  Addiction commonly starts with toxic shame that is often generationally inherited and passed on.  That is the core.  It is not a choice.  It alters ones perspective and core beliefs about self worth/value. The pain that this shame generates becomes unbearable without learning healthy coping mechanism, which kids who are born to shame based parents never learned in childhood.  It is not taught in school.  Most kids don't have therapists to teach these healthy coping mechanism.  Addicts are usually predisposed to be addicts before they ever take their first drug - alcohol, porn, you name it.  Often, the drug finds them first, and not the other way around.   Calls and pleading to God don't take the pain away.  "There must be something wrong with me!" "I must not be righteous enough for God to answer my prayers and remove this pain".  Striving for perfection, and religious devoutness must be the answer.    It doesn't work.  No solace to be found from the pain.  It is not God's fault though.  God is faithful.  I am not. I am the problem.  Must be better!  Repent daily.  Fast.  Pray.  Cry.  Plead.  Beg.  What is wrong with me?  Then suddenly you are exposed to a new experience.  The pain is numbed.  Gone!  Then guilt creeps in.  Then the core shame that one was raised in kicks in.  Then pain.   Pray to God...pain still there.   Pray some more, repent, fast, cry to God for help.  Pain still there.  It's unbearable.  God isn't helping.  The kid doesn't know any healthy coping mechanisms.  There's that drug again - numb.  Then guilt/shame/pain... and on and on.    

I was predisposed to be an addict before I was of the age of accountability.  I was exposed to my drug before the age of accountability.  I had a reliable drug peddler before the age of accountability.  I was numbing before the age of accountability.  That kid had no chance but to become an addict!  I was that kid. 

Addiction is not a God, it is a curse.  It is what happens when one doesn't have any other healthy tools/copping mechanisms and there is no solace from the pain despite your best efforts with God.  

I don't know if you have ever experienced chronic insomnia.  The desperate need for sleep of a chronic insomniac is probably one of the closest things I have experienced to the need to numb from the pain of isolation/shame.  It is one of the most terrible things I have ever experienced.   God doesn't always just fix that for people because they righteously seek for solace in Him.  Sometimes we have to learn the hard way.   Framing this as a choice between God and addiction is like framing an insomniacs choice between God and a sleep medicine.   Without help from sleep specialists who teach healthy mechanisms, or without treating root causes of insomnia like sleep apnea, God isn't just going to give you solace in sleep.  Drugs help one sleep.  They help relieve the unbearable pain of sleeplessness where God doesn't.   It is understandable why someone who never learned healthy mechanisms or received professional help might become addicted to sleep medicines and dependent on them.  That doesn't make them their God!   It is a terrible and shaming way to frame it.  It totally mischaracterizes what addiction is.   

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Especially since many addictions begin with the unwise use of our agency and with us almost always being aware that addiction is a possible (sometimes likely) outcome from the choice we are making.  I read it more as a warning about why we need to get help for our addictions rather than a condemnation of those who are addicted.

To say that it offends God is shaming language and is not true of the God I experience.  I used to think/feel that way.  That is partly what kept me in my shame and addiction, honestly.  Then I changed that belief.  That's when the healing began.    Framing it as a consequence of unwise use of agency is not usually true, nor is it helpful.  

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

But, I can see your point too.  Some are going to be hurt by his words.  If what he said needed to be said for some, but it might hurt others, what would have been a better way for him to have said it? (sincere question).

I would have recommended that he approach addicts from a place of compassion rather than suggesting that they are offending God by their actions of turning to a false God.  Something like this:

"For those who are victims of the terrible grasp and disease of addiction.  My heart goes out to you in your suffering, your pain, and your righteous desires to overcome as you turn to God.  For reasons I don't fully understand, sometimes we are made to go through pain, struggle, sorrow, and addiction in life.  It is not always a choice.  But what we do with those struggles is a choice.   While it may sometimes feel like there is no balm in Gilead as we turn to God in prayer, sometimes God uses these pains of life for our benefit in the end.   Don't give up hope and please don't try to go this alone.  It is not possible without support, without coaching from professionals, without processing and healing from core issues that plague us.   Please reach out for help.  Celestial thinking alone is not a cure for addiction.  You need outside help and support.  

Edited October 7, 2023 by pogi

[Chum]

2 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Addiction is a shameful choice when you start it.  Though involuntary afterwards.

Is the shameful part taking the prescribed addictive meds? Or Is it being the recipient of abuse, injury or malady that led to being prescribed addictive meds?

Shame is cheap to dispense, we can heap it on all of the above for free. We just need to wait until they enter the addictive phase.

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, CV75 said:

As to your first question, "No," and thankfully God is in charge of rectifying all that while I try to help the child feel as comfortable, safe and happy as possible, and safe for others.

As to your second question, from your description I don't believe you are responsible for the condition you have. You seem to understand it enough to take the long view, accept the temporary nature of these episodes with gratitude (another healthy attitude), and do what you can when you can (church, family, chores, etc.).

So how does that modify the “all are responsible…” in your view?

[Chum]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

Is addiction offensive to God?

I took this question to the very highest disputed authority, LDS Bot.

Quote

Heavenly Father who's perfectly understanding and merciful. He knows each of His children suffer challenges and weaknesses.

Addiction in itself isn't "offensive" to God. It's a serious challenge that a person can overcome with God's help, through recovery and repentance.

Oh no.

[JAHS]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

“Any addiction — be it gaming, gambling, debt, drugs, alcohol, anger, pornography, sex or even food — offends God. Why? Because your obsession becomes your god. You look to it, rather than to Him, for solace. If you struggle with an addiction, seek the spiritual and professional help you need.”

The addiction offends God, but not the person who is addicted. God will always have perfect and complete love for the sinner.