General Conference word counts

[Dario_M]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:36 PM, Nofear said:

PS: He also apparently notes that the Church's growth isn't dropping (just increasing less quickly).

That doesn't supprise me though. The LDS church is the most known church of....the whole world i would say. And the church growns because of the missionaries who spread the gospel everywhere in the world. I have met so manny mormons through my life. Sometimes via my friends. And sometimes on the street. That whas a lot of years back in time when i lived in the Netherlands. They spoke perfectly Dutch i can remember. I can remember how amazed i whas about that. 

I knew the church allready when i whas 17 years old or so. But back then the church had not a really good reputation though. At least not in the Netherlands from what i have heard. But then i met those mormons and they where so friendly. So... that whas confusing for me. I whas catholic at that time and didn't want to change my direction. Allthough i sometimes went to other churches as well to try something else. Like the protestands. But the LDS church whas a bit to much for me at that time (and still is actually a bit, allthough i am one myself now). And because i heard so many negative things about it from my Dutch friends. Otherwise i would have joined the church allready back then. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

Thank you but i don't need your upvote @Vanguard

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Thank you but i don't need your upvote @Vanguard

I didn't give it to you because I thought you needed it. I gave it because I liked what you said. ; )

[Dario_M]

25 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I didn't give it to you because I thought you needed it. I gave it because I liked what you said. ; )

Here!! i also have given you something. Something with a red color. I didn't give it to you because I thought you needed it. I gave it because I didn't liked what you said to me.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Dario_M

[Vanguard]

8 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Here!! i also have given you something. Something with a red color. I didn't give it to you because I thought you needed it. I gave it because I didn't liked what you said to me.

?

[gopher]

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

As much as I enjoyed some of the talks, the one that put a bad taste in my mouth was the one by Elder Gong, when he said he asked a beautiful girl why she was wearing a modest swimsuit at the beach. I think he should get the gong for that one. Tired of it already, focusing on women's clothing choices.

No, Elder Gong did not ask a girl why she was wearing a modest swimsuit.  From his talk:

A convert was ministered to by personal example. As a young man, he said he spent his days lounging at the beach. One day, he said, “I saw an attractive girl in a modest swimsuit.” Amazed, he went to ask why such an attractive girl would wear such a modest swimsuit. She was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and asked with a smile, “Would you like to come to church Sunday?” He said yes.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/04/14gong?lang=eng

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, gopher said:

No, Elder Gong did not ask a girl why she was wearing a modest swimsuit.  From his talk:

A convert was ministered to by personal example. As a young man, he said he spent his days lounging at the beach. One day, he said, “I saw an attractive girl in a modest swimsuit.” Amazed, he went to ask why such an attractive girl would wear such a modest swimsuit. She was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and asked with a smile, “Would you like to come to church Sunday?” He said yes.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/04/14gong?lang=eng

Sorry, I'm glad you caught this. But do still think it was a story left to stay out of public really. It just seems creepy that the convert did that. And I believe Elder Gong surely has enough stories to leave this at the kitchen table.

[CV75]

21 minutes ago, gopher said:

No, Elder Gong did not ask a girl why she was wearing a modest swimsuit.  From his talk:

A convert was ministered to by personal example. As a young man, he said he spent his days lounging at the beach. One day, he said, “I saw an attractive girl in a modest swimsuit.” Amazed, he went to ask why such an attractive girl would wear such a modest swimsuit. She was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and asked with a smile, “Would you like to come to church Sunday?” He said yes.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/04/14gong?lang=eng

His answer: if we can wear swimsuits  

[mfbukowski]

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry, I'm glad you caught this. But do still think it was a story left to stay out of public really. It just seems creepy that the convert did that. And I believe Elder Gong surely has enough stories to leave this at the kitchen table.

Cultural differences perhaps.

And for all we know, the beach event might have even been in a third culture.

So perhaps we have present American culture including feminism, interacting perhaps with Chinese culture, interacting with possibly macho/patriarchal culture X.

It will be interesting to see if there are reactions from other LDS countries.

Our dear brother Dario teaches us well about our cultural differences when Dutch, American, Portuguese, African and Islander cultures are tossed together into an LDS melting pot.

We all need to drop all these cultures and create a new international church culture!

THAT is what is needed for a true "Gathering"!

But I can easily see this happening in a highly patriarchal culture, where such an action by a man might be construed as a compliment.

I can see it happening in Italy in the '70s for example.  I spent some time there around then; "complimenting" a random beautiful woman stranger was totally acceptable and routine.

I heard it happen all the time.

Edited April 6, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Thank you but i don't need your upvote @Vanguard

Just curious about cultural differences - why did you find the upvote offensive?

Did it seem sarcastic?  I can imagine that!

[Dario_M]

11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Just curious about cultural differences - why did you find the upvote offensive?

Did it seem sarcastic?  I can imagine that!

...Yes. 

[Vanguard]

51 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

...Yes. 

And upvote is sarcastic? How? I don't think I've ever seen something like that. But I then I clarified why I gave you the upvote and you still had a massive issue with it. : (

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, Dario_M said:

...Yes. 

Ok I get it then. I understand.

[Dario_M]

17 hours ago, Vanguard said:

And upvote is sarcastic? How? I don't think I've ever seen something like that. But I then I clarified why I gave you the upvote and you still had a massive issue with it. : (

Can you please keep it a bit ontopic will you?? All these offtopic nonsens make the topic polluted. 

[Dario_M]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Ok I get it then. I understand.

Thanks. 😌

[Vanguard]

33 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Can you please keep it a bit ontopic will you?? All these offtopic nonsens make the topic polluted. 

I think we could both take your advice, right? ; )

[gopher]

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry, I'm glad you caught this.

No problem.  I just find it interesting to see how easily we hear what we want to hear instead of what was actually said.

22 hours ago, Tacenda said:

But do still think it was a story left to stay out of public really. It just seems creepy that the convert did that. And I believe Elder Gong surely has enough stories to leave this at the kitchen table.

I agree with you his story is sending the wrong message.  We'll see many more converts if attractive LDS girls will wear immodest swimwear at the beach instead.

[MustardSeed]

7 minutes ago, gopher said:

No problem.  I just find it interesting to see how easily we hear what we want to hear instead of what was actually said.

I agree with you his story is sending the wrong message.  We'll see many more converts if attractive LDS girls will wear immodest swimwear at the beach instead.

I’m picking up what you’re putting down- but for the record I wish he hadn’t used this story as an example to illustrate his point.    There has been a very successful grass roots effort to eliminate focus on women’s “modesty” as we have bastardized the true meaning of the word and actually created a lot of shame issues for girls. When I heard him tell that story, I thought to myself first of all there’s no way that’s actually what happened. It sounded scripted to me and white washed. He was trying to make a different point by telling that story but I knew this would become a problem. There are multiple possible messages that come out of that story.1. Only attractive girls should wear two-piece swimsuits. 2. Unattractive girls need not apply 3. Wearing one piece swimsuits will make you righteous enough to win the guy 4. what a girl wears to the beach, should matter to anybody. 5. Once again girls bodies are up for discussion but modesty for boys is rarely a topic.

I’m with Tacenda on this one.  The story was unnecessary inflammatory for us girls who have bodies.

[MustardSeed]

Dario you want to share your feelings? 

[ksfisher]

52 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

4. what a girl wears to the beach, should matter to anybody.

So, I mostly agree with everything else you're saying, except for this one.  This thought, which I've read more than once on numerous threads here, ignores millions of years of biology.  Male mammals are wired to visually recognize signs of sexual fitness and availability in females.  Male mammal brains are wired to notice prospective mates.  Yes, that gospel teaches us that we should put off the natural man and be like God.  It teaches us that we should not look upon a woman and lust.  But to ignore the fact that men are wired to recognize visual signals ignores the way male brains are structured.

(I've probably expressed myself very poorly here and I'm not trying to make excuses for any particular behavior)

[MustardSeed]

Just now, ksfisher said:

So, I mostly agree with everything else you're saying, except for this one.  This thought, which I've read more than once on numerous threads here, ignores millions of years of biology.  Male mammals are wired to visually recognize signs of sexual fitness and availability in females.  Male mammal brains are wired to notice prospective mates.  Yes, that gospel teaches us that we should put off the natural man and be like God.  It teaches us that we should not look upon a woman and lust.  But to ignore the fact that men are wired to recognize visual signals ignores the way male brains are structured.

(I've probably expressed myself very poorly here and I'm not trying to make excuses for any particular behavior)

I understand. Women’s brains are wired to be aroused by fit men for the same reasons. For some reason, we ignore that when it comes to lessons to be taught at church. Women are objectified whether we as individuals intend to or not. We have even objectified ourselves. We are working hard to stop this.

[Tacenda]

23 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

So, I mostly agree with everything else you're saying, except for this one.  This thought, which I've read more than once on numerous threads here, ignores millions of years of biology.  Male mammals are wired to visually recognize signs of sexual fitness and availability in females.  Male mammal brains are wired to notice prospective mates.  Yes, that gospel teaches us that we should put off the natural man and be like God.  It teaches us that we should not look upon a woman and lust.  But to ignore the fact that men are wired to recognize visual signals ignores the way male brains are structured.

(I've probably expressed myself very poorly here and I'm not trying to make excuses for any particular behavior)

IMO, it's the conditioning that makes men think sexuality with women's bodies, in the media etc. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. I wonder if you grew up with your mother breastfeeding in plain view would boobs be a thing? But again, I'm not male. 

[ksfisher]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

IMO, it's the conditioning that makes men think sexuality with women's bodies, in the media

So before modern mass media was invented men never thought women were sexually appealing???

I would respectfully disagree with you.  In many mammals, including primates, the female will give off visual signals that she is an available mate.  The males of the species are wired to recognize these signals.  We are primates.  Human female bodies are biologically designed to appeal to men and give off signals that they are available mates.  Male humans are wired to recognize these signals and respond.  This is part of our species reproductive strategy.  The media just can't create something out of thin air.  There is a firm biological foundation for all of this.

[MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

So before modern mass media was invented men never thought women were sexually appealing???

I would respectfully disagree with you.  In many mammals, including primates, the female will give off visual signals that she is an available mate.  The males of the species are wired to recognize these signals.  We are primates.  Human female bodies are biologically designed to appeal to men and give off signals that they are available mates.  Male humans are wired to recognize these signals and respond.  This is part of our species reproductive strategy.  The media just can't create something out of thin air.  There is a firm biological foundation for all of this.

Totally agree. There’s so much about our biology that we don’t consider in our routine operating.

What is missing from the conversation is the fact that girls also feel desire and that boys have just as much responsibility as the girls to not flaunt their sexuality, and while we are biological, we are also capable of operating above our basic instinct, and should manage our own thoughts and desires. The conversation has been so drastically imbalanced that it has created a real problem that in my opinion, ultimately demonstrates itself in the bedroom where women feel that they are there to please their spouses and are not taking responsibility for their own sexuality, thus leading to disparity regarding levels of desire. This is not just a problem in our church. It is a problem in society, but it is underscored in our church as we continue the conversation around girls wearing two piece swimsuits. Even just saying that out loud sounds completely ridiculous but here we are.

 

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, gopher said:

No problem.  I just find it interesting to see how easily we hear what we want to hear instead of what was actually said.

I agree with you his story is sending the wrong message.  We'll see many more converts if attractive LDS girls will wear immodest swimwear at the beach instead.

😅