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Rolling Stone Article Re: Armpit Crabs at BYU


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21 hours ago, MustardSeed said:
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And I disagree strongly back. In every instance where I have been involved in a membership council convened because of infidelity within marriage, there has been a history of unchastity before marriage.

I believe your experience.  I don’t believe  in your originally stated theory.  

It is my understanding that Hamba's "originally stated theory" is: "And after many experiences with membership councils, I have come to realise that, in many cases, people who struggle to be chaste outside of marriage will continue to struggle to be chaste within marriage."

He qualified this statement quite a bit by acknowledging that it is based on his personal experience ("after many experiences with membership councils"), and by not making any categorical statements ("in many cases").

21 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

The reason is, you don’t have a good enough sample to indicate how many LDS couples  are knockin the boot before marriage and still remaining faithful in the marriage.  

It looks like Hamba was not speaking of the people you describe here, namely, people who A) had pre-marital "unchastity" issues but then B) maintained post-marital fidelity. 

Rather, he was speaking of people who A) had pre-marital "unchastity" issues and B) also post-marital infidelity, with the latter being reflective of the former.

I would be interested in sociological data on this point.  Probably difficult to collect, though.

21 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I have reason to believe that people can and do cross those very difficult lines to hold pre marriage, and then in marriage keep the law as it applies to marriage.  

I agree.  But I think Hamba's point remains valid in some, perhaps many, circumstances.  

Thanks,

-Smac

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14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Here's my original statement: 'In many cases, people who struggle to be chaste outside of marriage will continue to struggle to be chaste within marriage'.

I don't think anyone could give you that guarantee. I certainly wouldn't.

But it has been my personal experience within the context of double-digit membership councils that infidelity within marriage has in those cases always been preceded by serious violations of the Law of Chastity (is 'fornication' a better term?) outside of marriage. I'm not sure what conclusions one should reach from this, but I have repeatedly heard the people involved draw a clear line between patterns of behaviour established before marriage and struggles later in life. One example: a career diplomat attended a council after having confessed to serial adultery for the second time in his short-ish marriage (two different women, two different postings). Through tears of anguish, he said (paraphrased from memory), 'I had no idea when I was young that developing a habit of fooling around was going to make it so difficult for me to be loyal to my eventual wife. I wish I could go back and start over!'

Maybe they're wrong to understand their own life histories in this way? As I wrote above, 'I'm willing to acknowledge that others' experiences may differ'.

Thank you

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

For a definition of the topic, it's on the Urban Dictionary. I didn't want to c/p it though. I can see this being the same as masturbation for men. So a lesser sin according to the church I guess. 

So degrading for women imo. Of course I’m assuming women are the armpits.  
women who offer their bodies up as objects for men to mstrbte to are missing a fundamental part of their own identity as whole sexual beings themselves.  
here’s my opinion on before vs after marriage: I think if People are trifling with sexuality in this manner, (armpit sex, scrimping, scrumping, blapping and other BYU whathaveyous) ,  it sets up a dynamic of men having sexual needs that must be attended to and women being objectified and objectifying themselves.   I think it leads to problems in marital sexual relationships.  
I also believe that we are all vulnerable to having affairs regardless of our history.  No one is safe from this damaging traumatic behavior. However, there are many things that we can do to protect ourselves and our spouses from our own humanity.

All of this that I have shared is IMO. 

Edited by MustardSeed
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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

So degrading for women imo ... I think if People are trifling with sexuality in this manner, (armpit sex, scrimping, scrumping, blapping and other BYU whathaveyous), it sets up a dynamic of men having sexual needs that must be attended to and women being objectified and objectifying themselves. I think it leads to problems in marital sexual relationships.

100 per cent!

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Armpits? Beyond licking and a fetish or kink for body odor or sweat never heard of it. Doubt it.

Looks like the whole thing is based on ex-Mormon TikTok videos that were probably joking. There was also mention of armpit chlamydia.

The only time I’ve heard of that was in an article about the sexual subculture in Salt Lake. One professional dominatrix mentioned one of her regular clients, a stake president who liked being “forced” to lick her armpits. Ewww. 

Edited by jkwilliams
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On 11/14/2022 at 2:29 PM, jkwilliams said:

The only time I’ve heard of that was in an article about the sexual subculture in Salt Lake. One professional dominatrix mentioned one of her regular clients, a stake president who liked being “forced” to lick her armpits. Ewww. 

Nah, sounds fun.

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8 minutes ago, Thinking said:

I wonder if these armpit sex students are the same ones who drive to Vegas, get married, have wild sex, then get an annulment on the way back to Provo. It seems that in the 1980s everybody except me personally knew somebody who did that.

Put me in the didn’t even know someone who knew category, lol

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On 11/16/2022 at 1:04 AM, Thinking said:

I wonder if these armpit sex students are the same ones who drive to Vegas, get married, have wild sex, then get an annulment on the way back to Provo. It seems that in the 1980s everybody except me personally knew somebody who did that.

Harsh way to find out that you aren’t one of the cool kids if you were never invited.

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