Report on alcohol consumption

[ttribe]

39 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I got drunk exactly once about 12 years ago, on cocktails. Not a good experience. The worst thing I could have done is have another novice ex-Mormon trying out cocktail recipes. Needless to say, there was a lot of vomiting. 

Outright drunkenness is an extremely rare occurrence for me. As it turns out, I don't really get hangovers. Some of my friends truly hate me for that.

ETA: I'm imagining your experience to be something like the Barf-O-Rama scene from Stand by Me.

Edited September 2, 2022 by ttribe

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Outright drunkenness is an extremely rare occurrence for me. As it turns out, I don't really get hangovers. Some of my friends truly hate me for that.

My friend still makes fun of me for barfing all over his bathroom. But BYU’s football season starts tomorrow, so I’ve got some hazy IPA in the fridge for the occasion. 

[ttribe]

Just now, jkwilliams said:

My friend still makes fun of me for barfing all over his bathroom. But BYU’s football season starts tomorrow, so I’ve got some hazy IPA in the fridge for the occasion. 

ASU played last night, but I was responsible and didn't partake during the game...work is a burden.

[jkwilliams]

12 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Outright drunkenness is an extremely rare occurrence for me. As it turns out, I don't really get hangovers. Some of my friends truly hate me for that.

ETA: I'm imagining your experience to be something like the Barf-O-Rama scene from Stand by Me.

It was Mexican food, but pretty much. 😂

[ttribe]

7 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It was Mexican food, but pretty much. 😂

Unguided exmo rookies + Mexican food = Disaster

[ttribe]

I also really like Baily's Irish Creme on ice. That's a delectable desert drink.

[Jerry Atric]

53 minutes ago, edvantageous said:

These new findings are concerning enough that governments are changing their public health policies and recommendations about consuming alcohol

Governments are stupid. The government also came up with the food pyramid which is making people obese. 

Staying healthy is all about learning how YOUR metabolism breaks down what you are putting in your pie hole. This includes alcohol which in moderation isn't bad for you. Lots of people live into their 90s and drink daily. 

Check this guy out! Rockin a rifle, cigars, whiskey and a great attitude. Everything in moderation. 

[Stargazer]

19 hours ago, pogi said:

All of that to ultimately not dispute anything I said…glad we got that settled!

What was there to dispute? "There is no safe amount" is a useless fact, given that there is also no safe amount of potassium cyanide. How could I dispute it? 

I was perplexed about the big deal being made about there being "no safe amount," when everyone knows that light to moderate alcohol consumption in itself doesn't seem to have terrible consequences. Meanwhile a small capsule of KCN will kill you quite quickly.

 

 

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Well, to be fair, I'm still a rookie. Didn't start consuming alcohol until February 2020. Give it time. I'm sure I'll be dead before the week is out.

Yeah, because no amount is safe.  

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

But BYU’s football season starts tomorrow, so I’ve got some hazy IPA in the fridge for the occasion. 

As I recall, your wife is still LDS. Do you mind sharing how she feels about this? You don't have to if you don't want to.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Then there's the Japanese government, which is concerned that young people aren't drinking enough. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-62585809

Turns out having a joyless work-obsessed culture isn’t as good for alcohol sales when your society develops enough to have alternative outlets for dealing with the pain of life.

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

As I recall, your wife is still LDS. Do you mind sharing how she feels about this? You don't have to if you don't want to.

Obviously she wasn’t happy when I got drunk years ago, but I average less than a beer a month, so it’s not a big deal. 

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

What was there to dispute? "There is no safe amount" is a useless fact, given that there is also no safe amount of potassium cyanide. How could I dispute it? 

I was perplexed about the big deal being made about there being "no safe amount," when everyone knows that light to moderate alcohol consumption in itself doesn't seem to have terrible consequences. Meanwhile a small capsule of KCN will kill you quite quickly.

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that you are suggesting that this new research is "useless".   I am perplexed that you are perplexed as to how big of a deal this is from chaining our understanding and mindset from "1 glass or wine per day is not only not bad for you but is good for cardiovascular health" to "no amount of alcohol is safe" and 1 glass per day can increase numbers health risks and is not good for cardiovascular health at all.   BIG difference that will hopefully influence behavior.   Seriously, how is that not useful???

I was responding to someone who was claiming that "moderate consumption of alcohol is not bad for you".  Well, lets see what the best research says:

Quote

Jan. 25, 2022 -- The widely held notion that consuming small to moderate amounts of alcohol is good for cardiovascular health is not supported by the data, the World Heart Federation (WHF) says in a new policy brief.
In fact, the evidence is clear that any level of drinking can contribute to loss of a healthy life, the organization says.

The WHF conclusions follow a recent report in The Lancet based on the Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study (GBD), which found that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

Even small amounts of alcohol have been shown to raise the risk of cardiovascular disease, including coronary disease, stroke, heart failure, hypertensive heart disease, cardiomyopathy, atrial fibrillation, and aneurysm, the WHF notes.

https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20220125/no-amount-alcohol-safe-heart-whf

Despite what you think, Canada has found this new data useful, and hopefully other countries follow suit.   Based on this new research they have changed their guidelines from 15 drinks/week as a low level of risk to 2 or fewer drinks/week.   They are also talking about putting cancer warning labels on alcoholic beverages due to this research.  

Quote

The portrayal of alcohol as necessary for a vibrant social life has diverted attention from the harms of alcohol use, as have the frequent and widely publicized claims that moderate drinking, such as a glass of red wine a day, can offer protection against cardiovascular disease," Monika Arora, member of the WHF advocacy committee and co-author of the brief, said in a news release.
"These claims are at best misinformed and at worst an attempt by the alcohol industry to mislead the public about the danger of their product," Arora continued.

In fact, the evidence is clear that any level of drinking can contribute to loss of a healthy life, the organization says.

I find this all extremely helpful in educating the public and giving best evidence direction for making policies and guidelines in relation to alcohol consumption.

It makes it quite easy to refute the claim that "moderate alcohol consumption is not bad for you".  Sorry, that is not something that one can guarantee.  I honestly don't understand why you are defending the claim by 

Edited September 2, 2022 by pogi

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

This includes alcohol which in moderation isn't bad for you. 

Again, support it with science.  There are over "6,000 studies" which suggest that "no amount of alcohol is safe".  Please stop making claims that you can't support.  You can't promise this.  You don't know the health history of those you are speaking to.  You have no idea what risks alcohol might have on them even in small amounts.  No idea whatsoever.

Quote

Check this guy out! Rockin a rifle, cigars, whiskey and a great attitude. Everything in moderation. 

Anecdotes are not helpful...again. 

 

[Okrahomer]

21 minutes ago, pogi said:

Again, support it with science.  There are over "6,000 studies" which suggest that "no amount of alcohol is safe".  Please stop making claims that you can't support.  You can't promise this.  You don't know the health history of those you are speaking to.  You have no idea what risks alcohol might have on them even in small amounts.  No idea whatsoever.

Anecdotes are not helpful...again. 

 

I suspect, most of the information linking moderate alcohol consumption to health benefits is the result of this.

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, pogi said:

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that you are suggesting that this new research is "useless".  

It isn't the research that is useless. I'm sure the research is very helpful in understanding alcohol beverage consumption and its implications for humans.

What is useless is using "no amount is safe" as an argument for abstention. Because virtually every activity that humans indulge in, has the potential of causing injury or death. In all of these activities, to include such innocuous activities as playing baseball, "no amount is safe." Should we abstain from baseball, scuba diving, snow skiing, and many other activities because they have a potential for injury or death? I think not. One does a risk/benefit analysis to decide whether one wants to risk it.

[JustAnAustralian]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

One does a risk/benefit analysis to decide whether one wants to risk it.

And that's the point of "no amount of alcohol is safe". They have determined that any benefits are more than offset by the detriments. It's not just a risk vs no-risk situation.

[pogi]

15 hours ago, Stargazer said:

It isn't the research that is useless. I'm sure the research is very helpful in understanding alcohol beverage consumption and its implications for humans.

What is useless is using "no amount is safe" as an argument for abstention. Because virtually every activity that humans indulge in, has the potential of causing injury or death. In all of these activities, to include such innocuous activities as playing baseball, "no amount is safe." Should we abstain from baseball, scuba diving, snow skiing, and many other activities because they have a potential for injury or death? I think not. One does a risk/benefit analysis to decide whether one wants to risk it.

First, I wasn’t arguing for abstention.  I was refuting the blanket claim that “alcohol in moderation isn’t bad for you”.   That simply contradicts the science which states that even small amounts increase risk of numerous diseases.   
 

Second, if we are measuring physical health alone, most of these other activities you mention have positive effect on health from physical activity that far outweigh the relatively small risk of serious injury.   The same can’t be said with alcohol consumption.  There is literally ZERO physical health benefit to compensate for the risk.  
 

I am not going to balk at jkwilliams for drinking a few times/year.  The risk for many is very low when moderation is followed.  But I am going to balk at someone for making the blanket claim that “alcohol in moderation isn’t bad for you.”  That simply can’t be supported.  The risk may be low for many, but it has zero health benefit and only increases risk with every drink.   He can’t guarantee that moderation in drinking won’t negatively impact health for some and increase risk for all with every drink.   See the difference.  

If people want to drink in moderation, I am not going to judge them.  There are worse things they could be doing by far like eating fast food/soda for every meal.   But don’t make false claims that it is perfectly safe.

Edited September 3, 2022 by pogi

[Jerry Atric]

17 hours ago, pogi said:

Again, support it with science.  There are over "6,000 studies" which suggest that "no amount of alcohol is safe".  Please stop making claims that you can't support.  You can't promise this.  You don't know the health history of those you are speaking to.  You have no idea what risks alcohol might have on them even in small amounts.  No idea whatsoever.

Anecdotes are not helpful...again. 

 

You're acting as is alcohol is this new intoxicant we know nothing about. It's not. 

Here, lets go to God's official website and see what the Bible has to say

Alcohol is not bad for you in moderation. The Bible agrees with me.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Jerry Atric

[Okrahomer]

17 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

You're acting as is alcohol is this new intoxicant we know nothing about. It's not. 

Here, lets go to God's official website and see what the Bible has to say

Alcohol is not bad for you in moderation. The Bible agrees with me.

 

 

Pogi did not reference religious doctrine, he referenced scientific evidence.   Notwithstanding the fact that current prophets counsel us not to drink alcohol —at all — your previous assertion that scientific evidence supports the idea that alcohol consumption in moderation is beneficial to humans seems misinformed.  Pogi is asking you to support the assertion with scientific, not religious evidence.

Something about the way you engage this particular topic reminds me of another MDDB poster.  Is it possible that you have posted here in the past under another name?

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

Pogi did not reference religious doctrine, he referenced scientific evidence.   Notwithstanding the fact that current prophets counsel us not to drink alcohol —at all — your previous assertion that scientific evidence supports the idea that alcohol consumption in moderation is beneficial to humans seems misinformed.  Pogi is asking you to support the assertion with scientific, not religious evidence.

Something about the way you engage this particular topic reminds me of another MDDB poster.  Is it possible that you have posted here in the past under another name?

This is Jerry’s MO.  Making assertions without backing them up. He’s previously been temp-banned for this behavior.