Church History in early 1980’s

[Rivers]

Just finished watching the final episode of Under the Banner of Heaven.  The show depicts church leaders as mustache twirling villains distorting history while ironically doing the very thing it accuses the church of doing.  
 

Today we live in a golden age of information and the church is more transparent than ever before.  But I wasn’t alive during the early 1980’s when UTBOH takes place.  I’m curious to know what kinds of faithful sources of church history existed during that time period.   Was the state of information as bad as the show makes it out to be?  I’m sure there were better history books besides Mormonism: Shadow or Reality that Andrew Garfield’s character could have been reading right?

[Duncan]

34 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Just finished watching the final episode of Under the Banner of Heaven.  The show depicts church leaders as mustache twirling villains distorting history while ironically doing the very thing it accuses the church of doing.  
 

Today we live in a golden age of information and the church is more transparent than ever before.  But I wasn’t alive during the early 1980’s when UTBOH takes place.  I’m curious to know what kinds of faithful sources of church history existed during that time period.   Was the state of information as bad as the show makes it out to be?  I’m sure there were better history books besides Mormonism: Shadow or Reality that Andrew Garfield’s character could have been reading right?

i'd say read the online Ensigns, also there is this video

 

[Calm]

What was supposed to not be known?  Banner iirc has Brigham responsible for MMM. While I believe he and other Church leaders contributed to the overall tension/antagonism in the air due to the massive threat of the US Army headed to Utah…there were plenty still living who would remember the government backed violent expulsion from Missouri as well as the forced migration out of Illinois of most members, the best evidence is he actually tried to prevent engagement with the settlers. I have read BYU Church history institute texts from late 70s that taught MMM and iirc, did show there was intended cooperation later on with bringing the perpetrators to justice, but you aren’t going to find Church sources saying Brigham backed the slaughter nor should you. 
 

Plural marriage was discussed in the same institute texts with Emma’s vehement opposition and the deception when she agreed to give him the two sets of sisters who lived with them as plural wives. 
 

The various versions of the First Vision I haven’t checked in the past, so can’t recall. Give me some time to check. 
 

What else is on Banner’s list of tabooed subjects?

Ivan Barrett wrote one of them, Joseph Smith and the Restoration. I keep getting it and him mixed up with William Barrett and his The Restored Church. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

This is the 2003 edition and I no longer have the original version of the text, but iirc last I checked there was no much difference in the info provided. At least some of other versions are quoted and referenced in the text. 
 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/church-history-in-the-fulness-of-times/chapter-three?lang=eng#note7

There was the Jan 1985 Ensign that discussed all four versions. I don’t remember any shock out there with the publication though some content was definitely not well known. 

[Calm]

Also I really wanted to buy the History of the Church by Roberts. It was in a paperback boxed set at Deseretbook and the BYU bookstore that was around $40-50 iirc, but there were too many other books I wanted to buy more.  There were a couple of other collections including Doctrines of Salvation iirc that were boxed up the same way. Large display of them in the beginning, I got the impression it was the thing to have for those halfway interested in gospel study. My parents and grandparents both had a gorgeous set in their libraries and I wanted my own, but wasn’t into church history that much.  I was more interested in the Nibley stuff and bought uncanonized revelations/scripture like the JST and Pearl of Great Price topics books instead. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Calm

[webbles]

5 hours ago, Rivers said:

Just finished watching the final episode of Under the Banner of Heaven.  The show depicts church leaders as mustache twirling villains distorting history while ironically doing the very thing it accuses the church of doing.  
 

Today we live in a golden age of information and the church is more transparent than ever before.  But I wasn’t alive during the early 1980’s when UTBOH takes place.  I’m curious to know what kinds of faithful sources of church history existed during that time period.   Was the state of information as bad as the show makes it out to be?  I’m sure there were better history books besides Mormonism: Shadow or Reality that Andrew Garfield’s character could have been reading right?

I kind of consider the 70-80s as when the church's history started to be talked about in a more modern historical manner.

• Leonard Arrington was the church historian from 1972-1982 and he pushed to be more open and more accurate.
• FARMS was founded in 1979
• Egyptian papyri was rediscovered in 1967 and multiple publications on it were available by the 70s.
• Mark Hoffman was creating forgeries between 1980-1985 and his "findings" made a lot of people start to look at the church critically.
• Tanners found documents that hadn't been published in decades and re-published them.  This includes the KEP, View of the Hebrews, Times and Seasons, etc.

While going through the newspapers, there was a lot of discussions about church history.  Meetings were announced in multiple Utah cities to discuss church history.

For someone who was doubting about the church and whether the church was hiding things (which it looks like Jeb is feeling), then the Tanners' book would fit.  It was first published in 1963, though I have no idea how widely known it was.  If you want to take a look at it, you can find a copy at https://archive.org/details/mormonismshadowo00tann/mode/2up?view=theater.  It isn't the easiest book to read.

[webbles]

Deseret Book published a more secular version of the history of the church in 1976, titled "The Story of the Latter-day Saints".  It was written by James B. Allen and Glen M. Leonard.  (wiki article, online version)

Some highlights of "controversial" items:

• Publishes a picture of the 1832 version of the first vision
• Talks about the 1826 trial
• Doesn't talk about stone in hat translation method, just that it was done by Urim and Thumim and power of God
• Publishes a picture of the papyri and discusses how the known papyri are not the text of the Book of Abraham
• Discusses the Kirtland Safety Society Anti-Banking Company
• Polygamy is discussed with it officially starting in 1841.  It does mention that Joseph might have taken wives as early as 1835, though.
• Porter Rockwell's attempted assassination of former Governor Boggs
• Nauvoo Expositor and the reaction was partly legal and partly illegal
• Joseph's gun at Carthage Jail
• Mountain Meadow Massacre - It says that the Indians started it (which is inaccurate) but it does say that the militia did get involved with the killing of the wagon train
• Ann Eliza Web Young's divorce from Brigham Young

This book sold out within 3 years.  There were some members of the Quorum of the Twelve (President Benson and Elder Peterson are named in the wiki article) felt that it was too secular and not faith-promoting.  President Benson publicly warned against buying it.  President Kimball and Elder Hunter privately voiced support for the book.  A second printing was finally approved in 1986.

[Tacenda]

In my experience the majority of ward members weren't aware of warts in the church, or things in history that weren't taught in Sunday School, except for the very few in each ward I was in that knew tons of church history and probably had to remain tight lipped throughout Gospel Doctrine lessons and were probably bursting at the seams wanting to talk. I picture many on this MDDB forum to be those that had to sit and stay silent in meetings. Fess up people!  

ETA: I better state that I married in '84, and before that I really didn't go to adult Sunday School it was another Sunday School class for young adults I think and taught Primary a year before I married. So my experiences are late 80's until now. I believe that history isn't fully taught in Sunday School to this day. But many on here say that it's not necessary and it's up to the member to do research, which in the 80's would have been difficult or you'd have to be really interested in it to go search it out in libraries, book stores or BYU I guess. Which imo wasn't a thing except for those few in the wards that I mentioned above. You know who you are!  

Edited June 5, 2022 by Tacenda

[sunstoned]

I went through early morning seminary and graduated in t he 1970's.  I also attended BYU and took the required religion classes.  I don't know how things are now, but back then I was taught a very white washed and stylized version of church history.   If people would have taught back then what is now in the essays, they would have faced church court.  The wealth of information that is now available on the internet has change everything.

[webbles]

6 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

I went through early morning seminary and graduated in t he 1970's.  I also attended BYU and took the required religion classes.  I don't know how things are now, but back then I was taught a very white washed and stylized version of church history.   If people would have taught back then what is now in the essays, they would have faced church court.  The wealth of information that is now available on the internet has change everything.

What in the essays would have caused them to face a church court?  I think most of the things in the essays were taught and discussed back in the 80s.

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

In my experience the majority of ward members weren't aware of warts in the church, or things in history that weren't taught in Sunday School, except for the very few in each ward I was in that knew tons of church history and probably had to remain tight lipped throughout Gospel Doctrine lessons and were probably bursting at the seams wanting to talk. I picture many on this MDDB forum to be those that had to sit and stay silent in meetings. Fess up people!  

ETA: I better state that I married in '84, and before that I really didn't go to adult Sunday School it was another Sunday School class for young adults I think and taught Primary a year before I married. So my experiences are late 80's until now. I believe that history isn't fully taught in Sunday School to this day. But many on here say that it's not necessary and it's up to the member to do research, which in the 80's would have been difficult or you'd have to be really interested in it to go search it out in libraries, book stores or BYU I guess. Which imo wasn't a thing except for those few in the wards that I mentioned above. You know who you are!  

I would love to have an actual history class in church.  I don't think Sunday School is the place, especially the current lesson structure.  But I know that stakes and wards have held study groups and firesides where they do discuss the history a bit more.  I feel it was more prevalent in the 80s and 90s, though, for those firesides and study groups.  I don't hear of them as much now.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, webbles said:

While going through the newspapers, there was a lot of discussions about church history.  Meetings were announced in multiple Utah cities to discuss church history.

I remember many who were interested in it while I was at BYU, while at the time I thought it quite boring as pretty much anything past 1700 AD was to me.  Maybe even 1500 AD.  For some reason I did not want to study exploration by Europeans, though I wanted to know what cultures were like prior to exposure to Western influence.  I suspect that preference was one of the reasons for seeing ‘modern history’ as not worth studying, the other being how I was told I had to study it in both school and church while studying older cultures was my choice.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

except for the very few in each ward I was in that knew tons of church history and probably had to remain tight lipped throughout Gospel Doctrine lessons and were probably bursting at the seams wanting to talk.

Lol, in my wards they didn’t have as much self control and were pretty well known for not staying quiet and one in particular was seen as hijacking the class way too often.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

you'd have to be really interested in it to go search it out in libraries, book stores or BYU I guess.

Wards outside of Utah at least had the High Priests selling books from DB and Bookcraft, iirc, in the 70’s though that might have been earlier.  I can’t remember when they discontinued the practice.  I believe it had been happening for decades.  I heard some ward members grumble about it.  We had tons of church books and didn’t live in Utah or visit much as grandma came to stay with us (there wasn’t really room for all of us at her place) and I am pretty sure that is where my parents and my Californian grandparents got theirs.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

10 hours ago, Rivers said:

Today we live in a golden age of information and the church is more transparent than ever before.  But I wasn’t alive during the early 1980’s when UTBOH takes place.  I’m curious to know what kinds of faithful sources of church history existed during that time period.   Was the state of information as bad as the show makes it out to be?

Folks who lived without internet and computers, know.  Those who have always had internet in their lives, don't.  

The entire human race has spent most of it's existence without ready access to knowledge.  In the '80's, people figured out what they wanted to learn, and went to school and learned it.  Possibly a library, which may or may not have had resources.  Pamphlets and books were printed, distributed, and sold, and you had to be there to have access to such things.  Mail order was possible, but again, you had to obtain a mailing list from somewhere to know what was available.

The church had a special collections department, and access was limited due to the rare and fragile nature of the things inside.  You had to apply for access.  Perhaps Hulu's next foray into trying to embarrass us with our own history, will delve into Mark Hoffman and the Salamander letter.  I think dude infiltrated that department and stole blank pages from rare collections, so his letter would appear authentic when dating the paper.

Edited June 5, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Lol, in my wards they didn’t have as much self control and were pretty well known for not staying quiet and one in particular was seen as hijacking the class way too often.

Yes, that happened, or else how did I remember that they knew a heck of a lot more than the rest of us. Thanks for pointing that out though. I distinctly remember two different men from different wards.

[InCognitus]

12 hours ago, Rivers said:

Today we live in a golden age of information and the church is more transparent than ever before.  But I wasn’t alive during the early 1980’s when UTBOH takes place.  I’m curious to know what kinds of faithful sources of church history existed during that time period.   Was the state of information as bad as the show makes it out to be?  I’m sure there were better history books besides Mormonism: Shadow or Reality that Andrew Garfield’s character could have been reading right?

A lot of the so-called scandalous information was already available in church publications.   Many of the things highlighted in books like  Mormonism: Shadow or Reality come straight from church produced volumes like History of the Church (i.e. alcohol or other word of wisdom issues in the early church, Joseph's use of a pistol in Carthage Jail, polygamy) or Journal of Discourses. 

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but in the early 70's, our church history manual in High School Seminary was The Restored Church, by William Edwin Berrett.  This manual included Joseph's use of the wine and the pistol at Carthage Jail, and covered polygamy too.  

We have it very easy today, having access to internet sites like the Joseph Smith Papers, and a lot of new things have come to light since the early 80's.  But I just shake my head sometimes when people from that era claim the church was "hiding" some things from them at the time, when they were things available in church produced volumes, like those mentioned above.

[Tacenda]

44 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

A lot of the so-called scandalous information was already available in church publications.   Many of the things highlighted in books like  Mormonism: Shadow or Reality come straight from church produced volumes like History of the Church (i.e. alcohol or other word of wisdom issues in the early church, Joseph's use of a pistol in Carthage Jail, polygamy) or Journal of Discourses. 

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but in the early 70's, our church history manual in High School Seminary was The Restored Church, by William Edwin Berrett.  This manual included Joseph's use of the wine and the pistol at Carthage Jail, and covered polygamy too.  

We have it very easy today, having access to internet sites like the Joseph Smith Papers, and a lot of new things have come to light since the early 80's.  But I just shake my head sometimes when people from that era claim the church was "hiding" some things from them at the time, when they were things available in church produced volumes, like those mentioned above.

Do you remember what kind of details are given for Joseph's polygamy? 

[webbles]

55 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but in the early 70's, our church history manual in High School Seminary was The Restored Church, by William Edwin Berrett.  This manual included Joseph's use of the wine and the pistol at Carthage Jail, and covered polygamy too.  

You can read The Restored Church at archive.org - https://archive.org/details/restoredchurchbrberr00berr/mode/2up?view=theater.

[webbles]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Do you remember what kind of details are given for Joseph's polygamy? 

See my post above where I link to an online version of the book.  It doesn't have very many details about his polygamy.  It also says that polygamy was done because of a surplus of women, which isn't correct.

[InCognitus]

19 minutes ago, webbles said:

You can read The Restored Church at archive.org - https://archive.org/details/restoredchurchbrberr00berr/mode/2up?view=theater.

Thank you, I was looking for that!  (My copy is in a box, currently in storage, pending our next "move" into our new house [hopefully later this week]). 

18 minutes ago, webbles said:

See my post above where I link to an online version of the book.  It doesn't have very many details about his polygamy.  It also says that polygamy was done because of a surplus of women, which isn't correct.

Right, it doesn't have a lot of details, but it does cover it at the time of Joseph Smith on pages 180-185, and again as introduced to the church as a whole on pages 316-320 (and elsewhere).  So it can't be claimed, "I was never taught about polygamy" if they went to any of my high school seminary classes. 

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Do you remember what kind of details are given for Joseph's polygamy? 

I found an article in the November 1946 Improvement Era that discusses Joseph Smith and polygamy.  It does talk about married women who are sealed to Joseph.  It starts at the bottom of page 766 and continues to page 767 - https://archive.org/details/improvementera4911unse/page/n95/mode/2up?view=theater

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, InCognitus said:

A lot of the so-called scandalous information was already available in church publications.   Many of the things highlighted in books like  Mormonism: Shadow or Reality come straight from church produced volumes like History of the Church (i.e. alcohol or other word of wisdom issues in the early church, Joseph's use of a pistol in Carthage Jail, polygamy) or Journal of Discourses. 

I knew a family in America who had left the Church. The wife, a convert from a non-English-speaking nation, had occasionally been employed in the Translation Department and there had come across 'hidden' and 'scandalous' things the Church was trying to keep secret. When I asked what the sources for this information were (excited to hear about unpublished primary source documents of some kind!), she told me she had found them in the seven-volume History of the Church and the Journal of Discourses -- both published and sold by the Church.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Peacefully]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

In my experience the majority of ward members weren't aware of warts in the church, or things in history that weren't taught in Sunday School, except for the very few in each ward I was in that knew tons of church history and probably had to remain tight lipped throughout Gospel Doctrine lessons and were probably bursting at the seams wanting to talk. I picture many on this MDDB forum to be those that had to sit and stay silent in meetings. Fess up people!  

ETA: I better state that I married in '84, and before that I really didn't go to adult Sunday School it was another Sunday School class for young adults I think and taught Primary a year before I married. So my experiences are late 80's until now. I believe that history isn't fully taught in Sunday School to this day. But many on here say that it's not necessary and it's up to the member to do research, which in the 80's would have been difficult or you'd have to be really interested in it to go search it out in libraries, book stores or BYU I guess. Which imo wasn't a thing except for those few in the wards that I mentioned above. You know who you are!  

I agree. I became a member in 1992 and I didn’t question the accuracy of anything I was taught by missionaries or members. The only “historical” books I read were the “Work and Glory” series which just reiterated everything I had been taught. I wouldn’t have even known what to look for because no one I was around discussed anything other than what now seems to be a somewhat white-washed version of our history. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Peacefully

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I agree. I became a member in 1992 and I didn’t question the accuracy of anything I was taught by missionaries or members. The only “historical” books I read were the “Work and Glory” series which just reiterated everything I had been taught. I wouldn’t have even known what to look for because no one I was around discussed anything other than what now seems to be a somewhat white-washed version of our history. 

That's what I did, I read The Work and Glory series and read mostly Ensign articles.