Where were you when???

[3DOP]

So I remember where I was, playing catch with a neighbor, in the front yard, sunny, but still dew on the grass on an early morning in early June. School had just ended for the year. I wasn't quite twelve years old and Mom came out and told us that somebody had killed Bobby Kennedy. What about JFK, Neil Armstrong, the Challenger disaster, Elvis' death, 9/11? Maybe a piece of music (Tommy James and the Shondells gives me more than one!) that you hadn't listened to so well until...when? Crimson and Clover on the JV field 10th grade. Crystal Blue Persuasion hauling cars near Walla Walla. The opening theme for Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing on I-5 South, seeming like I am empty, heading home, but still in traffic, seeing those guys through the music riding back to Messina in triumph. Perhaps those Eli Manning passes that ruined the Patriots perfect season with a crazy catch on top of a helmet? What do you remember vividly, picturing it forever associated with a place and time? 

Edited May 1, 2022 by 3DOP

[The Nehor]

I was seven when the Challenger disaster happened. Teachers seemed distraught over it but in my mind at the time it was a risky job. I also wondered why they would put school teachers on the missions since there weren’t any kids to teach in space.

I was just off my Mission when 9/11 happened and was in college and working. I worked the late shift to pay for school and my mom woke me up to say what was happening. I remember people desperately wanting to do something. There were blood drives being organized (that made no logical sense), panic, a weirdo on the radio saying people who look like they are from the Middle East should stay off the streets as a matter of common sense. People terrified the banks would close. I went into work later and we went over badly just-written terrorist procedures in case anyone wanted to target a group home for the mentally challenged. I went to a political science class and the professor talked about how it was pointless to talk about anything else. One guy in the class who was ex-military kept insisting that people were jumping to conclusions about Al-Qaeda being behind it and Afghanistan being complicit. Heated argument broke out. I went to an all-you-can-eat pizza place that night with a friend who was working a project with FEMA and he talked about the big increases in security. Another friend who worked at a bank was trying to tell coworkers to stop acting like the bank was going to shut down tomorrow and scaring people.

I remember the blood lust I felt in myself and saw in others when videos were shown of people far away cheering the attack. Then the President who had just a year earlier talked about judicious use of the military and not wanting to tell other people what to do had us move in on a nations to give them democracy and root out terrorists and virtually everyone in the government and most of the people cheered.

 

I wasn’t around for the JFK assassination but I recently learned that it happening changed the ending to one of my favorite movies (Dr. Strangelove) and looking back it is easy to see why they hastily scrapped the intended ending and went a different direction. I think the ending they went with was much better. In the original there was supposed to be a pie fight in the war room and the President would be hit with a pie and one of the generals calls out something along the lines of ‘The President has been hit!” Obviously that would have been a bad joke right after what happened in Dallas so the movie ended with the world being destroyed instead and in a strange way suggests that the Nazis ended up winning after all.

[Calm]

I remember some things vividly, but then I check the dates and it couldn’t have happened that way.  My brain has been rewired. Since my family has talked about it, I do known my memory watching the moon walk in our basement in Illinois on our little black and white is accurate.  It is actually matches my memory of the time of day.  We got to stay up late and watch it in our pajamas. 

I was 5 when Kennedy was shot, don’t remember that. 

Stayed glued for the morning to TV for 9/11.  We were in Canada, it gave a sense of distance that might not have been present if we were in the US, people were horrified, but weren’t taking it personally for the most part. Were nervous what the reaction was going to be, but I was talking to moms at school, no one really interested in US politics except for their effect on Canada. Don’t remember how I found out as I didn’t watch TV in the morning.  Can’t remember what I saw live and what on repeat, but pretty sure was watching when towers came down.  My husband probably called me to let me know. I needed to contact my son who was on his mission in Utah even though I knew he was fine and safe. He hadn’t been gone for very long.  I think we got a hold of him quickly. He may have called us in fact. The mission President told them too iirc.   He said they were told to stay in for the day iirc or they may have gone over to other missionaries’ places (lots of them in that area, Ogden iirc). They weren’t going out that day.

When I picked up my 11 year old daughter from school, she knew all about it, I think they may have watched some of it.  We offered to take in stranded airport passengers, but by the time we got through, they were all assigned. Just as well as I wasn’t sleeping well and this made it worse.

Challenger, I think I was in an elevator at BYU when I heard about it, but don’t trust that one.  Could have been a dream about it. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Calm

[bluebell]

I was in elementary school during Challenger.  Sometime between 3rd and 5th grade but I don't remember my exact age.  I also don't remember if we watched it on tv or just heard about it.  

For 9/11 I was working as a natural gas meter reader (the kind that people have on the sides of their houses) and was in the company car so I heard about the second plane hitting on the radio.  Then all the meter readers ended up at a casino for breakfast and they had a tv so we watched as the first tower fell in real time.  I remember thinking that we had just watched thousands of people die.  That whole day people were so spooked.  I would run into people in their yards and they were instantly wary of my presence.  That had never happened before (we wore sweatshirts with the company name on them so most people didn't care when they saw me).  For myself, I was about 3 months pregnant with my first and I remember it did make me feel more vulnerable for a few days after it.  The future felt a lot more precarious for a while afterwards.

I wasn't around for anything else you mentioned.

[rpn]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

was just off my Mission when 9/11 happened

I was in Airport Management.  And what we all said is that the hardened cockpit doors that everyone had known for years would stop hijackings was going to happen with lightning speed.   And it did: suddenly airlines were no longer arguing that was too expensive.

 

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, rpn said:

I was in Airport Management.  And what we all said is that the hardened cockpit doors that everyone had known for years would stop hijackings was going to happen with lightning speed.   And it did: suddenly airlines were no longer arguing that was too expensive.

 

I just watched the parody movie Airplane with some friends a few days ago. The younger ones were shocked at how lax airplane and airport security was. I still miss showing up 30 minutes before the flight leaves and being fine. On an unrelated note how was that movie not PG-13?

[Kenngo1969]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

... I do know In my memory watching the moon walk in our basement in Illinois on our little black and white is accurate.  It is actually matches my memory of the time of day. ...

Michael Jackson's or Neil Armstrong's?  Sorry!  Had to ask!  

P.S.: And, no, I won't blame you if you give me one of these:   I probably deserve it.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I just watched the parody movie Airplane with some friends a few days ago. The younger ones were shocked at how lax airplane and airport security was. I still miss showing up 30 minutes before the flight leaves and being fine. On an unrelated note how was that movie not PG-13?

PG-13 ratings didn't begin until 1984.  (The MPAA probably felt that as bad as it might've been for a PG, still, it was too tame for an R).

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I just watched the parody movie Airplane with some friends a few days ago. The younger ones were shocked at how lax airplane and airport security was. I still miss showing up 30 minutes before the flight leaves and being fine. On an unrelated note how was that movie not PG-13?

The movie was released 4 years before PG-13 ratings existed.  Before that it was G, PG, and R.

[Kenngo1969]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

The movie was released 4 years before PG-13 ratings existed.  Before that it was G, PG, and R.

Great minds think alike?

[longview]

22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

PG-13 ratings didn't begin until 1984.  (The MPAA probably felt that as bad as it might've been for a PG, still, it was too tame for an R).

It could have gotten an R rating.  That movie had a lurid scene where a young boy was brought to the cockpit.  I won't recount the pilot's depraved conversation with the boy.

[MiserereNobis]

I was in college when 9/11 happened. I had 3 classes that day. The first one was cancelled with a sign on the door (I don't remember what the class was). The second class was the history of WWII. The professor told us that obviously we're not going to have class and then spoke for about 5-10 minutes about how this is going to change a lot of things, comparing it to other historical events like Pearl Harbor (obviously). The last class was with my favorite English professor. It was "Nature and Self in American Literature." He said that in terrible times, when humans do horrible things, it is good to remember that humans can also do beautiful things, that one way to counter horror that we cannot do anything about in the present moment, was to reflect on the sublime that humans have created all throughout our history. And so we had class as we normally would have, studying some wonderful literature that showed the positive creations of humanity. That has stuck with me all these years. I found it a perfect response to the day.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, longview said:

It could have gotten an R rating.  That movie had a lurid scene where a young boy was brought to the cockpit.  I won't recount the pilot's depraved conversation with the boy.

You do know that was a joke right? Not the kind of joke you could get away with today but it wasn’t depraved. It wasn’t intended to suggest what I think you are taking it as.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

The movie was released 4 years before PG-13 ratings existed.  Before that it was G, PG, and R.

Ah, for some reason I thought it was added in the mid-70s. Must have confused it with something else. Thanks.

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

PG-13 ratings didn't begin until 1984.  (The MPAA probably felt that as bad as it might've been for a PG, still, it was too tame for an R).

Thanks.

[longview]

20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You do know that was a joke right? Not the kind of joke you could get away with today but it wasn’t depraved. It wasn’t intended to suggest what I think you are taking it as.

I found an interview by ROB HARVILLA in the Village Voice with 40 year old Ross Harris who played the young boy Joey.  Rob was paying tribute to Peter Graves upon his passing.  Rob wrote:  "But for me, he’ll always be the pervert pilot in 1980’s Airplane!" A few of the questions by Captain Clarence Oveur (played by Peter Graves) were: "Joey, have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison?" “Do you like movies about gladiators?” “You ever hang around the gymnasium?” “You ever seen a grown man naked?”

Turkish prison:  a reference to beastly male rape?

Gymnasium:  a place to get your jollies?

The naked reference sounds like an adult grooming the young innocent for a possible future pedophile encounter.

These things are pretty nasty jokes.  Some jokes are uplifting.  Some are depraved.  Maybe you are in the wrong state of mind/spirit?  I am sure NAMBLA would approve.  How about you?

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, longview said:

I found an interview by ROB HARVILLA in the Village Voice with 40 year old Ross Harris who played the young boy Joey.  Rob was paying tribute to Peter Graves upon his passing.  Rob wrote:  "But for me, he’ll always be the pervert pilot in 1980’s Airplane!" A few of the questions by Captain Clarence Oveur (played by Peter Graves) were: "Joey, have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison?" “Do you like movies about gladiators?” “You ever hang around the gymnasium?” “You ever seen a grown man naked?”

Turkish prison:  a reference to beastly male rape?

Gymnasium:  a place to get your jollies?

The naked reference sounds like an adult grooming the young innocent for a possible future pedophile encounter.

These things are pretty nasty jokes.  Some jokes are uplifting.  Some are depraved.  Maybe you are in the wrong state of mind/spirit?  I am sure NAMBLA would approve.  How about you?

It was meant to be absurd. The pilot was clearly not interested in the kid just based on body language. There was no innuendo in the comments. Just absurdity. It is worth noting that the pilot’s sexual proclivities in the movie are complex as later in the film his wife is called and she is in bed with a horse. We also learn she has terrible taste in clothing. The lines are also delivered straight and they gave them to Peter Graves, one of the worst possible choices to deliver a comedic line because he does stilted serious dialogue so well was also part of the joke.

It would never be put in a movie today. Was it meant to imply grooming at the time? No. It is like being ticked at old Marx brother movies when Harpo was often chasing young women but the absurdity of it at the time made it more about anarchy and ignoring the rules than sexual harassment.

You do know Rob was joking too with that comment right?

[longview]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It was meant to be absurd. The pilot was clearly not interested in the kid just based on body language. There was no innuendo in the comments. Just absurdity.

Sure, the movie was full of absurdities.  But why justify the use of pornography?  It is degrading for an adult to ply the young innocent with lurid and suggestive language. It was an overt attempt to groom the child into becoming more receptive to under-age sex. In addition, it was a slander against pilots in general.

Clearly?  How? Not interested? Oveur could have declined to do a session. Based on body language? What a weird interpretation/justification you try to contrive.  Just twisting yourself into a pretzel.  No innuendo?  It was chock full of it!

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is worth noting that the pilot’s sexual proclivities in the movie are complex as later in the film his wife is called and she is in bed with a horse. We also learn she has terrible taste in clothing.

More pornography.  Bestiality?  Complexity does NOT justify immorality and depravity.

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The lines are also delivered straight and they gave them to Peter Graves, one of the worst possible choices to deliver a comedic line because he does stilted serious dialogue so well was also part of the joke.

Not necessarily the worst choice.  His role was to be a straight counterpart in an absurd movie.

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It would never be put in a movie today. Was it meant to imply grooming at the time? No. It is like being ticked at old Marx brother movies when Harpo was often chasing young women but the absurdity of it at the time made it more about anarchy and ignoring the rules than sexual harassment.

Not acceptable today AND less justifiable back then.  Of course it implied grooming. Your attempts at rationalization is pathetic.

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You do know Rob was joking too with that comment right?

No, I don't.  Which comment are you referring to?

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, longview said:

It is degrading for an adult to ply the young innocent with lurid and suggestive language. It was an overt attempt to groom the child into becoming more receptive to under-age sex.

It was an attempt to make a joke. You may not get it and it might be more tasteless today but it wasn’t an attempt to normalize grooming.

14 hours ago, longview said:

In addition, it was a slander against pilots in general.

Yes, clearly Hollywood was aiming at “all airline pilots are pedophiles”.

14 hours ago, longview said:

More pornography.  Bestiality?  Complexity does NOT justify immorality and depravity.

[longview]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It was an attempt to make a joke. You may not get it and it might be more tasteless today but it wasn’t an attempt to normalize grooming.

Yes, clearly Hollywood was aiming at “all airline pilots are pedophiles”.

Why joke about corrupting the youth?  I may not get it but your sophistry does NOT become you.  So much mockery from the Great and Spacious Building.  Maybe you should discuss this with your bishop?  Show him the thread.

Edited May 4, 2022 by longview

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

Why joke about corrupting the youth?  I may not get it but your sophistry does NOT become you.  So much mockery from the Great and Spacious Building.  Maybe you should discuss this with your bishop?  Show him the thread.

Nah, with the recent rash of suicides throughout the stake and in our ward he really has more important things to deal with than me suggesting that an obvious joke in a movie made 40 years ago is actually a joke and not a secret plot by the baby-eating Satanic cabal of pedophiles to normalize grooming 40 years ago. I also don’t care enough. You started the derail. You obviously care deeply. Start a campaign to get the movie banned. Write letters. Call your members of Congress. Destroy this filth! Good luck friend!

[Jaydes]

I was born after all of these things happened

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Jaydes said:

I was born after all of these things happened

Congratulations!    (And welcome to the forum: I look forward to your substantive contributions.) 

 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:29 AM, 3DOP said:

So I remember where I was, playing catch with a neighbor, in the front yard, sunny, but still dew on the grass on an early morning in early June. School had just ended for the year. I wasn't quite twelve years old and Mom came out and told us that somebody had killed Bobby Kennedy. What about JFK, Neil Armstrong, the Challenger disaster, Elvis' death, 9/11? Maybe a piece of music (Tommy James and the Shondells gives me more than one!) that you hadn't listened to so well until...when? Crimson and Clover on the JV field 10th grade. Crystal Blue Persuasion hauling cars near Walla Walla. The opening theme for Kenneth Branagh's Much Ado About Nothing on I-5 South, seeming like I am empty, heading home, but still in traffic, seeing those guys through the music riding back to Messina in triumph. Perhaps those Eli Manning passes that ruined the Patriots perfect season with a crazy catch on top of a helmet? What do you remember vividly, picturing it forever associated with a place and time? 

I remember everything you listed. I was born before anything manmade ever flew in space, such is my number of years.