Des News Article Re: "Under the Banner of Heaven" Mini Series

[Kenngo1969]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:44 AM, Tacenda said:

Personality test for helping me "get" people and my self.  I took the test and I'm a 9. And funnily it said I'm a peacemaker. Guess who else said I was a peacemaker, my patriarchal blessing, ha!

I told you God knows you better than some dumb personality test!   

[mfbukowski]

24 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I should become a writer for a newspaper, I'd name my article

"Under the Banner of Hate"

How bigotry became endorsed by mainstream outlets to indite an entire religion for one isolated incident involving two individuals who's actions that the institution not mere doesn't teach but would put down and reported if they ever espoused it to any normal authority or person in that church. It is no small amount irony I suppose they are only allowed to be bigoted towards a conservative religion that isn't nearly as dangerous as they claim, as they must be pretending they are dangerous, when they would never do this to Islam because we all know they have a real fear of dangerous Islamic Individuals and only then do they recognize the immorality when they think about creating anti-Islamic entertainment. Being that entire premise of the show is that Mormonism breeds dangerous men, their prime examples are actually Ex-Mormons who murdered an active Mormon woman and her child. Perhaps I'm not as smart to understand this, but if one were to blame the institutions for the acts of a some of its members, then shouldn't an Ex-Mormon killer mean that Ex-mormon institutions are what breeds dangerous people, and that its Ex-Mormon men that are a threat to Mormon, particularly women? Or would that be an over generalization and demonization of an entire group of people for the acts of a few, and only once its is framed like that would they acknowledge it would be wrong and bigoted...

I think Utahns don't get how bad it is out here in the real world. Has anyone mentioned "The Funniest Musical Ever" ?  The Book of Mormon of course.

And as usual we turn the other cheek....  and slowly we become the world's whipping boy even more.

But I guess the GA's never met the bully in the school yard?

So what's the answer?

Status quo, or change something?

Anti-Defamation League anyone?

Edited May 16, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

On 5/15/2022 at 6:44 AM, Tacenda said:

Personality test for helping me "get" people and my self.  I took the test and I'm a 9. And funnily it said I'm a peacemaker. Guess who else said I was a peacemaker, my patriarchal blessing, ha!

Mine said 😡

[jkwilliams]

15 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I think Utahns don't get how bad it is out here in the real world. Has anyone mentioned "The Funniest Musical Ever" ?  The Book of Mormon of course.

And as usual we turn the other cheek....  and slowly we become the world's whipping boy even more.

But I guess the GA's never met the bully in the school yard?

So what's the answer?

Status quo, or change something?

Anti-Defamation League anyone?

For a minute I misread that as the JDL, which is a different kettle of fish. I knew some JDL guys in high school, and you didn’t want to mess with them.

If we had a Mormon version, I suggest calling it the Whistling and Whittling Brigade. 

[jkwilliams]

On 5/15/2022 at 9:44 AM, Tacenda said:

Personality test for helping me "get" people and my self.  I took the test and I'm a 9. And funnily it said I'm a peacemaker. Guess who else said I was a peacemaker, my patriarchal blessing, ha!

Mine said I would be a judge in Israel and be called to the highest quorums of the church. Oddly enough, a friend from my ward had the exact same wording in his patriarchal blessing. 

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Mine said I would be a judge in Israel and be called to the highest quorums of the church. Oddly enough, a friend from my ward had the exact same wording in his patriarchal blessing. 

Same.

[Pyreaux]

Hey, mine didn't, what a rip off... *Thinks about being in a higher quorums than the Elder's Quorum and shudders* Never mind, I'm happy with mine as is.

[jkwilliams]

20 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Hey, mine didn't, what a rip off... *Thinks about being in a higher quorums than the Elder's Quorum and shudders* Never mind, I'm happy with mine as is.

Well, I *was* in the high priests group leadership. Does that count?

[webbles]

8 hours ago, Amulek said:

It pleases me that I'm not the only one bothered by stuff like this:

"Fictional UK demands that he has the right to a phone call, which just occurs to him for the first time after being tortured for two days with Tabernacle Choir music. [...] Anyway, we finally meet the guy that Fictional UK called during his MoTab respite – his lawyer. Oh, wait. Sorry. That would have made too much sense. No, the Fake UK brother didn’t call a lawyer. He called – wait for it – his stake president."

Seriously, at this point in the show we are well over three hours into the series' runtime, and there are three brothers who have been in holding by the police for multiple days now and none of these anti-government, anarcho-libertarians has yet to lawyer up? Really???

Look, I get that this is a conceit which takes place in a bunch of cop shows, and I'm willing to put up with it...to a point. From a storytelling perspective, it is better to have these types of conversations take place between the actual characters, I get that, but at a certain point it just becomes too much to ignore and begins to take away from the story.

Chalk this one up as yet another thing that pulls me out of the story and reminds me how much better your average episode of Law & Order is compared to this show.

 

Dan and Ron were very anti-lawyer.  In 1982, Dan was arrested for resisting arrest and speeding.  He didn't want a lawyer and ignored lawyer that was assigned to him.  When Dan and Ron were fighting extradition from Nevada (they were found in Reno), they also didn't accept help from a lawyer.  They did it themselves and that's the main reason why they were extradited.

After reading that review and some others, I decided that I need to go through all the old newspapers and really piece together the timeline.  Because the way the reviews are talking, it sounds like the show has it wrong.  I'm several newspapers in and I'll probably post the timeline once I'm all done.

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Mine said I would be a judge in Israel and be called to the highest quorums of the church. Oddly enough, a friend from my ward had the exact same wording in his patriarchal blessing. 

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Same.

Well, you both messed up apparently.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

Well, you both messed up apparently.

Most definitely.

[Tacenda]

6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I told you God knows you better than some dumb personality test!   

Well, I'll give you that, haha!

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Mine said 😡

Your's said, angry face?   

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Most definitely.

You are both awesome in my book.

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You are both awesome in my book.

Right back at you. 🙂

[ttribe]

22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, you both messed up apparently.

I served as a clerk to several bishops; definitely not a job I would have wanted.

[Tacenda]

Just now, ttribe said:

I served as a clerk to several bishops; definitely not a job I would have wanted.

A very busy calling for sure!

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Shouldn't an Ex-Mormon killer mean that Ex-mormon institutions are what breeds dangerous people, and that its Ex-Mormon men that are a threat to Mormon, particularly women?

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Anti-Defamation League anyone?

You know how this works. We could create an exact parallel of the ADL, and people like Mr Black and his online supporters would be howling (and possibly making even worse TV programs) about the return of the 'Danites'.

[mfbukowski]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Your's said, angry face?   

Teasing.

I have trouble being civil to church critics who appear to be using horrible arguments.

I feel this kind of German Shepherd growl in my belly.  Makes me want to bark.  

The church is so "logical" to me, I see critics as ...... not thinking it through clearly.

But that's not the Ideal Human in action, is it?  I worship the CONCEPT of the ideal human, whose voice I hear as the light of Christ, the real Intelligence we all feel as our conscience, seen as a "Father" figure.  No reason this could not be literally true, but that is not necessary.  I take it literally.

But I enjoy civil disussions with real, legitimately seeking folks like you!

[mfbukowski]

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You know how this works. We could create an exact parallel of the ADL, and people like Mr Black and his online supporters would be howling (and possibly making even worse TV programs) about the return of the 'Danites'.

Well, could be!

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I see critics as ...... not thinking it through clearly.

Well, we can certainly thank Mr Black for putting the intellectual rigour of our critics and their oft-repeated criticisms on full display!

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Teasing.

I have trouble being civil to church critics who appear to be using horrible arguments.

I feel this kind of German Shepherd growl in my belly.  Makes me want to bark.  

The church is so "logical" to me, I see critics as ...... not thinking it through clearly.

But that's not the Ideal Human in action, is it?  I worship the CONCEPT of the ideal human, whose voice I hear as the light of Christ, the real Intelligence we all feel as our conscience, seen as a "Father" figure.  No reason this could not be literally true, but that is not necessary.  I take it literally.

But I enjoy civil disussions with real, legitimately seeking folks like you!

Thanks, that means a great deal. I've been listening to two ladies that run a podcast and this one particularly reminded me of you. They both liked Richard Rohr and mentioned the kingdom being within themselves. They are both active in the church but both aren't super orthodox. Here's the particular episode that made me think of you. They are a breath of fresh air after listening to non faithful podcasts for years. And of course, I take a break with Brene Brown and books on audible and other non religious podcasts. 

https://atlastshesaidit.org/episode-082-holy-discomfort/  Love, love, love the podcast! Each one spoke to me. 

[sunstoned]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You know how this works. We could create an exact parallel of the ADL, and people like Mr Black and his online supporters would be howling (and possibly making even worse TV programs) about the return of the 'Danites'.

The return of the Danites would liven things up a bit. 

[Amulek]

13 hours ago, webbles said:

Dan and Ron were very anti-lawyer.  In 1982, Dan was arrested for resisting arrest and speeding.  He didn't want a lawyer and ignored lawyer that was assigned to him.  When Dan and Ron were fighting extradition from Nevada (they were found in Reno), they also didn't accept help from a lawyer.  They did it themselves and that's the main reason why they were extradited.

After reading that review and some others, I decided that I need to go through all the old newspapers and really piece together the timeline.  Because the way the reviews are talking, it sounds like the show has it wrong.  I'm several newspapers in and I'll probably post the timeline once I'm all done.

I guess that could explain it for the two crazy brothers, but not for Allen. The show is portraying him as the normal one / the one who got out, and he's the one who has been in holding since the opening scene.

But I understand why they have him talking to the police the whole time though. He's not there to actually represent what happened with the real Allen; he's there to provide exposition for the viewers about the deep dark secrets of Mormonism. If Detective Pyre is there to personify your average Mormon and allow the audience to view the events through his eyes as he goes through his faith crisis, then Allen's role is to basically be the personification of exMormon Reddit (bad history lessons and all).

And yes, the show runners are taking significant liberties with the timeline. If I remember right, in real life Allen basically fingered his brothers from the jump; there was none of this 'men with beards' nonsense. But obviously they need to draw things out in order to try and make this into a suspenseful crime drama. Because the story they are trying to tell isn't so much about who committed the murder, but why the murders were committed and what the writers want to say about faith / religion and how that plays a part in what took place.