Revelation on Heavenly Mother

[Rivers]

Elder Renlund, in his address at the women’s session of General Conference said that the doctrine of Heavenly Mother came by way of revelation.  I don’t know of any legit revelation providing us explicit knowledge of a Heaveny Mother.  I know that Blake Ostler strongly disagrees with Elder Renlund on this.  To which revelation could Elder Rendlund be referring?

[The Nehor]

It is either not written or is not given to the general church membership but it is generally accepted amongst members that Joseph Smith got the teaching via revelation.

[Robert F. Smith]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is either not written or is not given to the general church membership but it is generally accepted amongst members that Joseph Smith got the teaching via revelation.

Taylor G. Petrey, “Rethinking Mormonism’s Heavenly Mother,” Harvard Theological Review 109/3 (July 2016): 315-341.  Online at https://www.academia.edu/27103113/Rethinking_Mormonisms_Heavenly_Mother_Harvard_Theological_Review_?email_work_card=view-paper ,

Quote

...a Heavenly Mother breaks down the homogeneity of the male godhead.

Margaret Barker has pointed out that the Great Isaiah Scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls includes the reading at Isaiah 7:11, “Ask a sign of the Mother [מאם] of the LORD your God.”[1]

---

[1] Barker, Temple Mysticism, 107.  The MT reads מעם.

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

Elder Renlund, in his address at the women’s session of General Conference said that the doctrine of Heavenly Mother came by way of revelation.  I don’t know of any legit revelation providing us explicit knowledge of a Heaveny Mother.  I know that Blake Ostler strongly disagrees with Elder Renlund on this.  To which revelation could Elder Rendlund be referring?

For anyone who’s been endowed and sealed in the temple, the Mother in Heaven doctrine couldn’t be more obvious if they got hit over the head with a heavy Mallet. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

49 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

For anyone who’s been endowed and sealed in the temple, the Mother in Heaven doctrine couldn’t be more obvious if they got hit over the head with a heavy Mallet. 

I don’t know about a heavy mallet, but I’d say it might be more obvious if, oh I don’t know, she was actually mentioned…

[jonah747]

4 hours ago, Rivers said:

Elder Renlund, in his address at the women’s session of General Conference said that the doctrine of Heavenly Mother came by way of revelation.  I don’t know of any legit revelation providing us explicit knowledge of a Heaveny Mother.

See the church's "The Family - A Proclamation to the World".

[Fether]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

For anyone who’s been endowed and sealed in the temple, the Mother in Heaven doctrine couldn’t be more obvious if they got hit over the head with a heavy Mallet. 

 

58 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I don’t know about a heavy mallet, but I’d say it might be more obvious if, oh I don’t know, she was actually mentioned…

I was ganna say. I think you VASTLY overstated the “obviousness of it.” There may be strong evidence for it… but definitely not obvious.

[teddyaware]

51 minutes ago, Fether said:

 

I was ganna say. I think you VASTLY overstated the “obviousness of it.” There may be strong evidence for it… but definitely not obvious.

This only goes to prove the truth of the Savior’s declaration when he said that there are many with eyes to see who cannot see, and ears to hear thar cannot hear. One day, when your eyes are opened to see and your ears are unstopped to hear, you’ll be flabbergasted at how you could have missed something that’s so plainly obvious.

[JAHS]

11 hours ago, Rivers said:

Elder Renlund, in his address at the women’s session of General Conference said that the doctrine of Heavenly Mother came by way of revelation.  I don’t know of any legit revelation providing us explicit knowledge of a Heaveny Mother.  I know that Blake Ostler strongly disagrees with Elder Renlund on this.  To which revelation could Elder Rendlund be referring?

"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. (D&C 131: 1-3)

That should be clear enough revelation. Since God the Father has been exalted and resides in His Celestial Kingdom He must be married.

Edited April 10, 2022 by JAHS

[Fether]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

This only goes to prove the truth of the Savior’s declaration when he said that there are many with eyes to see who cannot see, and ears to hear thar cannot hear. One day, when your eyes are opened to see and your ears are unstopped to hear, you’ll be flabbergasted at how you could have missed something that’s so plainly obvious.

Section 89 of the Doctrine and Covenants clearly teaches the doctrine of plural marriage and that God has multiple wives. If you don’t see it, it is only because you choose not to seek or ask.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Fether

[JLHPROF]

“An interesting sidelight is given to this time through a possible glimpse of the thought-kernel which grew into such fragrant bloom in the full-voiced poem of Sister Snow. It was told by Aunt Zina D. Young  to the writer as to many others during her life. Father Huntington lost his wife under the most trying circumstances (1839). Her children were left desolate. One day, when her daughter Zina was speaking with the Prophet Joseph Smith concerning the loss of her mother and her intense grief, she asked the question:

“`Will I know my mother as my mother when I get over on the Other Side?’

“`Certainly you will,’ was the instant reply of the Prophet. `More than that, you will meet and become acquainted with your eternal Mother, the wife of your Father in Heaven.’

“`And have I then a Mother in Heaven?’ exclaimed the astonished girl.

“`You assuredly have. How could a Father claim His title unless there were also a Mother to share that parenthood?’

“It was about this time that Sister Snow learned the same glorious truth from the same inspired lips, and at once she was moved to express her own great joy and gratitude in the moving words of the hymn, `O my Father.'”  (Susa Young Gates, History of the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Association of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from November 1869 to June 1910 (Salt Lake City: General Board of the Y.L.M.I.A., 1911), p. 16, footnote)

[Rivers]

4 hours ago, jonah747 said:

See the church's "The Family - A Proclamation to the World".

Is that a revelation?

[JLHPROF]

44 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Is that a revelation?

Based in revealed scripture and principles yes.  But no, it's a proclamation.

Much like OD1 and OD2.  Based on revelation, not the actual revelation.

[JAHS]

51 minutes ago, Rivers said:

5 hours ago, jonah747 said:

See the church's "The Family - A Proclamation to the World".

Is that a revelation?

Elder W. Eugene Hansen (President of the Seventy):
"I leave you my witness that the proclamation on the family, which I referred to earlier, is modern-day revelation provided to us by the Lord through His latter-day prophets."
(Children and the Family.  Ensign 28 (May 1998).)

Revelation does not have to be included in 4 standard works of the church. However the proclamation does not really reveal any new doctrine, but it does remind us and the world of the doctrines that have come by revelation.

Edited April 10, 2022 by JAHS

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Elder W. Eugene Hansen (President of the Seventy):
"I leave you my witness that the proclamation on the family, which I referred to earlier, is modern-day revelation provided to us by the Lord through His latter-day prophets."
(Children and the Family.  Ensign 28 (May 1998).)

Revelation does not have to be included in 4 standard works of the church. However the proclamation does not really reveal any new doctrine, but it does remind us and the world of the doctrines that have come by revelation.

If it reveals no more truth and doesn't contain actual words of God it's not a revelation by definition.

It could be inspired teachings like many sermons from many prophets and apostles.

We have several canonized documents that aren't revelation.  No offense to Elder Hansen but he's mistaken.

[JAHS]

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

If it reveals no more truth and doesn't contain actual words of God it's not a revelation by definition.

It could be inspired teachings like many sermons from many prophets and apostles.

We have several canonized documents that aren't revelation.  No offense to Elder Hansen but he's mistaken.

I think there are different forms of revelation. 
1. Doctrines and commandments that come directly from God.
2. Not words of God , but inspiration through the Holy Ghost that can come to church leaders and members

From the Gospel Topics:
"The scriptures tell of different types of revelation, such as visions, dreams, and visitations by angels. Through such channels, the Lord has restored His gospel in the latter days and revealed many truths. However, most revelations to leaders and members of the Church come through the whisperings of the Holy Ghost.
The witness of the Holy Ghost makes an impression on the soul that is more significant than anything we can see or hear.
Through such revelations, we will receive lasting strength to stay true to the gospel and help others do the same."

I think the prophets received revelation from God that the proclamation needed to be written. 
 

[Durangout]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

 

I was ganna say. I think you VASTLY overstated the “obviousness of it.” There may be strong evidence for it… but definitely not obvious.

Elohim is plural so…it seems pretty obvious to me that She is mentioned many times.

[filovirus]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

If it reveals no more truth and doesn't contain actual words of God it's not a revelation by definition.

It could be inspired teachings like many sermons from many prophets and apostles.

We have several canonized documents that aren't revelation.  No offense to Elder Hansen but he's mistaken.

In October 2010 conference, Elder Packer stated that it (the proclamation) “qualifies according to the definition of a revelation”. Those words were later changed to it is a “guide” in the written version of his discourse. Either way it was given through prophecy.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

Elohim is plural so…it seems pretty obvious to me that She is mentioned many times.

And yet so much of the world doesn’t interpret the title that way.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

I think there are different forms of revelation. 
1. Doctrines and commandments that come directly from God.
2. Not words of God , but inspiration through the Holy Ghost that can come to church leaders and members

From the Gospel Topics:
"The scriptures tell of different types of revelation, such as visions, dreams, and visitations by angels. Through such channels, the Lord has restored His gospel in the latter days and revealed many truths. However, most revelations to leaders and members of the Church come through the whisperings of the Holy Ghost.
The witness of the Holy Ghost makes an impression on the soul that is more significant than anything we can see or hear.
Through such revelations, we will receive lasting strength to stay true to the gospel and help others do the same."

I think the prophets received revelation from God that the proclamation needed to be written. 
 

Revelation literally means to reveal.  If nothing new was revealed or no new words came from God it's not a revelation.  It's at best inspired teachings.  Nothing revealed - not revelation.

49 minutes ago, filovirus said:

In October 2010 conference, Elder Packer stated that it (the proclamation) “qualifies according to the definition of a revelation”. Those words were later changed to it is a “guide” in the written version of his discourse. Either way it was given through prophecy.

I'm sure they prayed and pondered over it and felt the finished document was what God wanted.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

Elohim is plural so…it seems pretty obvious to me that She is mentioned many times.

 

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

And yet so much of the world doesn’t interpret the title that way.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

They'd have to be blind to ignore it.

[kimpearson]

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

This only goes to prove the truth of the Savior’s declaration when he said that there are many with eyes to see who cannot see, and ears to hear thar cannot hear. One day, when your eyes are opened to see and your ears are unstopped to hear, you’ll be flabbergasted at how you could have missed something that’s so plainly obvious.

 

6 hours ago, JAHS said:

"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. (D&C 131: 1-3)

That should be clear enough revelation. Since God the Father has been exalted and resides in His Celestial Kingdom He must be married.

 

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

Elohim is plural so…it seems pretty obvious to me that She is mentioned many times.

 And we criticize the interpretations of scriptures by other christian denominations?  You can all have opinions but none of the above statements is based on anything other than opinion.  Your opinion is no more accurate in this case than any other opinion.  There is no revelation directly explaining anything about Mother in Heaven, nothing.  We members of the Church chose to believe in a Mother in Heaven because of feelings in our heart (sure a form of revelation) not because a prophet received any prophetic revelation from Heavenly Father that has been canonized or even written down. 

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

They'd have to be blind to ignore it.

I don’t know Hebrew, so can’t say the implications of the actual wording vs translations, but even in English that verse can be interpreted in multiple ways. First off, how can  the “he” be both male and female?  Second, “male and female” could be an term referring to who he created, the world is divided into humans who are either male or female (in the worldview of the authors) and therefore this phrase simply means “everyone” or it can be a phrase indicating what he created, the male/female attributes of humanity. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I don’t know Hebrew, so can’t say the implications of the actual wording vs translations, but even in English that verse can be interpreted in multiple ways. First off, how can  the “he” be both male and female?  Second, “male and female” could be an term referring to who he created, the world is divided into humans who are either male or female (in the worldview of the authors) and therefore this phrase simply means “everyone” or it can be a phrase indicating what he created, the male/female attributes of humanity. 

Correct.  The standard meaning of English "man" is "humankind" -- same as in Hebrew adam "man," which is also a collective term, same as in English.  Thus, adam is both male and female, even though humans may further be subdivided into two biological genders.  The similarities outweigh the differences in any case.

[Robert F. Smith]

16 hours ago, Rivers said:

Elder Renlund, in his address at the women’s session of General Conference said that the doctrine of Heavenly Mother came by way of revelation.  I don’t know of any legit revelation providing us explicit knowledge of a Heaveny Mother.  I know that Blake Ostler strongly disagrees with Elder Renlund on this.  To which revelation could Elder Rendlund be referring?

Yes.  It can be very difficult to pin it down.  However, the LDS author of the Twilight Saga, Stephanie Meyer, did utilize the basic concept, according to the master's thesis of Sylvia Carmella, “When Jesus is a Girl: Towards a New Perspective in the Theological Readings of the Character of Bella Swan in the Twilight Saga,” thesis (Univ of Sunderland, 2012), online at https://www.academia.edu/5724133/When_Jesus_is_a_Girl_Towards_a_New_Perspective_in_the_Theological_Readings_of_the_Character_of_Bella_Swan_in_the_Twilight_Saga?email_work_card=view-paper .

Quote

page 14, “There is general agreement on the visual representation of the ‘Mormon family’, embedded in the books’ text, whilst the discrepancy relates to the salvific role of Eve, which is a theological aspect found only in Mormonism.”

“With reference to family and marriage, the teachings of the Church of the Latter Day Saints (the Mormons) are related to their spiritual childhood with God the Father and their spiritual brotherhood with Jesus the Son. Thus, the human family is the reproduction on earth of the divine family and, as declared in their official website ‘vital to God’s plan…Marriage and families are believed to be the most important social unit now and in eternity’ (Mormon.org, online). Contrary to a more open admission of ignorance on the details of the afterlife showed by Evangelicals and Catholics, the Mormons strongly confess their certainty that marriage is forever, on heaven as it is on earth. Thus, the breaking of this everlasting bond, by separation or divorce, is seen as a betrayal of God’s plan. The ideal Mormon lifestyle is within marriage and motherhood/fatherhood: there is no place for the single life, which is not recognised as a vocational choice, just a misfortune or an imperfection.

“As analysed and argued by Elaine Heath (2011: 21), the perfect Mormon family is found in the Twilight saga in the description of the Cullen family, and the single or divorced people - such as Bella’s mother and the infertile female werewolf Leah - are their negative counterpart. The immortal coven of the Cullens, indeed, is a faithful visual image of what Mormons believe about eternal love, and Bella, who is fatally attracted to this unity and harmony, brings the ultimate service of the Mormon cause: a baby.”

Page 15, “...the discrepancies in the Christian readings of Bella’s character find their root in the unique Mormon interpretation of the role of Eve in the history of salvation.”

“The Mormon Eve does not correspond to the traditional (and traditionalist) Evangelical- Catholic interpretation. In The Book of Mormon, considered the second holy scripture for the Mormons, the role of Eve is, in addition to the traditionalist readings (the vehicle of the original sin; the one tempted by the snake-devil; the temptress of Adam), an essential part of God’s plan of human salvation (The Book of Mormon, Mosiah, 5: 11). Thus, despite this doctrine initially bringing the reader to consider the woman a  positive agent of salvation, the truth is that the Mormon Eve is a kind of scapegoat, her soul sacrificed for the holy remnant. The parallel with Bella is clear as she freely renounces her soul in her vampire transformation, and in the fact of giving birth to a new form of life, Renesmee, who incarnates a symbolic new life in Christ.”

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Robert F. Smith