Is the "Mormon" label fading?

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I live in a city where Church members make up 0.32 per cent of the population. I strongly suspect I have at least as many conversations about the Church with 'everyday' non-members as you do ... and quite possibly more. I have never referred to the Church or its members as 'Mormon'. It's not difficult.

I don’t live in such a city, but I’m fairly certain I could manage it if I did. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

When that time comes - and I'll probably be dead so I won't be able to give you all a big, 'told you so' ….

How convenient. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I'm curious why Latter-day Saint is preferable to Mormon.

Maybe because it's an integral part of the revealed name of the Church? The Lord could easily have chosen the Church of Jesus Christ of Mormons if He'd preferred that.

Personally, I've always preferred it because it's clearer and more accurate. If I tell someone that I'm a Latter-day Saint, I've given them a reasonable clue regarding which church I belong to.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Maybe because it's an integral part of the revealed name of the Church? The Lord could easily have chosen the Church of Jesus Christ of Mormons if He'd preferred that.

Personally, I've always preferred it because it's clearer and more accurate. If I tell someone that I'm a Latter-day Saint, I've given them a reasonable clue regarding which church I belong to.

Do people often respond “do you mean Mormon?” (Not pushing using Mormon, just curious, I like Saint best).

Edited February 26, 2022 by Calm

[Tacenda]

48 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do people often respond “do you mean Mormon?” (Not pushing using Mormon, just curious, I like Saint best).

All my life I've always said LDS for some odd reason.

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Do people often respond “do you mean Mormon?”

Not that I've experienced.

[Hamba Tuhan]

21 hours ago, Rain said:

Good question. I haven't found the occasion that I would use them both.

Thanks. I certainly didn't mean to call you out; I'm genuinely just intrigued.

The four largest religious groups in my mission in America would have been the Roman Catholic Church, the Episcopalian Church, Congregational churches and Unitarian Universalist churches. Catholics is one syllable shorter than Latter-day Saints, but Episcopalians and Congregationalists are both longer by two syllables, and Unitarian Universalists is longer by six! I've never heard anyone worry that, for example, 'Episcopalian missionaries' is somehow unwieldy, but maybe it is to some?

I have a good mate here who is a Seventh Day Adventist. That name is likewise 50 per cent longer syllable-wise than ours, but like Latter-day Saints, it can quite easily be shortened in subsequent use: Adventists. Of course, in this case we still win with our one-syllable Saints!

And whether one introduces himself as a Seventh Day Adventist or just as an Adventist, it provides a direct link back to the name of the church to which he belongs. This is, in my opinion, a very helpful, very desirable thing just as a general rule. It took me ages to finally realise that the Conservative and Unionist Party in the UK and the Tories are the same people. Even now, I sometimes have to think my way through this when I read British news.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Scott Lloyd]

38 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thanks. I certainly didn't mean to call you out; I'm genuinely just intrigued.

The four largest religious groups in my mission in America would have been the Roman Catholic Church, the Episcopalian Church, Congregational churches and Unitarian Universalist churches. Catholics is one syllable shorter than Latter-day Saints, but Episcopalians and Congregationalists are both longer by two syllables, and Unitarian Universalists is longer by six! I've never heard anyone worry that, for example, 'Episcopalian missionaries' is somehow unwieldy, but maybe it is to some?

I have a good mate here who is a Seventh Day Adventist. That name is likewise 50 per cent longer syllable-wise than ours, but like Latter-day Saints, it can quite easily be shortened in subsequent use: Adventists. Of course, in this case we still win with our one-syllable Saints!

And whether one introduces himself as a Seventh Day Adventist or just as an Adventist, it provides a direct link back to the name of the church to which he belongs. This is, in my opinion, a very helpful, very desirable thing just as a general rule. It took me ages to finally realise that the Conservative and Unionist Party in the UK and the Tories are the same people. Even now, I sometimes have to think my way through this when I read British news.

I think that in general, we are way too self conscious about how the length of our name is apt to be received (or perceived) by those on the outside. Instead of incessantly grumbling, muttering, murmuring and second-guessing, we should move forward with what, through revelation and prophetic direction, we know to be right. After a period of time, we might be surprised to find that what, to some, seemed a bold and inscrutable measure was the best thing after all. 

[Scott Lloyd]

22 hours ago, the narrator said:

Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, ... Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson all embraced and used "Mormon."

Just sayin'.

There’s a remarkable brand of Luddite-ism among former, lapsed, discontented and even some professedly active Church members that would eschew course corrections and freeze conditions and practices in the Church of Jesus Christ as they prevailed under the leadership of this or that now-deceased Church president. 
 

Of course, it is very undoctrinal, as we presumably believe in and support ongoing revelation. Have Church presidents of yesteryear been “thrown under the bus” because we now meet for only two hours on Sunday instead of three, ward high priests groups and stake seventies quorums have been discontinued, and we have ditched sponsorship of America’s 21st Century version of Scouting? Or that women may be called upon to give prayers in sacrament meetings (strange to think now that that was once not the case, and the change occurred well within my own lifetime)?  Or that temples will no longer offer cafeteria service? Or that sister temple workers now sit alongside brother temple workers at the recommend desks? Or that we no longer drink from a communal sacrament cup or hold priesthood meetings on week nights as the Church membership did until the early 20th century? Or that junior Sunday School has been discontinued and Primary is today held on Sunday instead of weekdays? Or that a mission president’s wife now more than ever is regarded as a missionary companion to her husband with a leadership role in the mission instead of merely “the president’s wife”? Or that the Church’s magazines have been revamped and renamed at times and there have been new versions of the hymn book published from time to time? 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Or that sister temple workers now sit alongside brother temple workers at the recommend desks?

Really? Cool. (I've only be able to access the temple once in the past two years.)

[Scott Lloyd]

Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

Really? Cool. (I've only be able to access the temple once in the past two years.)

Sad. I hope that conditions improve for you soon. 

[Amulek]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Of course, it is very undoctrinal, as we presumably believe in and support ongoing revelation.

Where is the revelation from God stating that He does not want the word Mormon used when referring to members of the Church?

I have yet to see one. And if you look closely at what has been said, you will note that seemingly great care has been taken to not paint ourselves into a corner on the matter.

 

[morgan.deane]

Directly addressing the op, I don't see a change except in some people online.

Logically I have a tough time believing that I'm a Mormon, Meet the Mormons and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir from ten years ago became a victory for Satan five years ago. What makes far more sense is that this is a policy change from someone who thinks its important. 

I don't think its a good change because of what others said about branding: replacing a short, well known term with a much longer one with no acronym and doing the same with the logo seems like it makes our job sharing the religion tougher.

Most importantly, if we are quoting scriptures about the use of Mormon we might consider how the term originated at the Waters of Mormon. We can do far worse than being known for people who "rejoiced" in the spirit of God (Mosiah 18:14), cared for the poor (v.27), had no contention because their hearts were with knit together in unity (v.21), and they were peacemakers (v.22 see Matthew 5:9). 

The people at the Waters of Mormon remind me of my favorite story in my studies called the Peach Blossom Spring, which was basically a Daoist conception of heaven. (I like the story so much a picture about it became the cover of my latest book.)  So I tend to think if we are called after the Waters of Mormon we should worry more about the society we are creating, the life we are living, and creating a piece of heave with our neighbors, than abandoning or retaining a handy nickname. Or as verse 30 said, using the term Mormon repeatedly, we should worry about having a blessed knowledge of Jesus:  

And now it came to pass that all this was done in Mormon, yea, by the waters of Mormon, in the forest that was near the waters of Mormon; yea, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon, how beautiful are they to the eyes of them who there came to the knowledge of their Redeemer; yea, and how blessed are they, for they shall sing to his praise forever.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by morgan.deane

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, morgan.deane said:

Directly addressing the op, I don't see a change except in some people online.

Logically I have a tough time believing that I'm a Mormon, Meet the Mormons and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir from ten years ago became a victory for Satan five years ago. What makes far more sense is that this is a policy change from someone who thinks its important. 

I don't think its a good change because of what others said about branding: replacing a short, well known term with a much longer one with no acronym and doing the same with the logo seems like it makes our job sharing the religion tougher.

Most importantly, if we are quoting scriptures about the use of Mormon we might consider how the term originated at the Waters of Mormon. We can do far worse than being known for people who "rejoiced" in the spirit of God (Mosiah 18:14), cared for the poor (v.27), had no contention because their hearts were with knit together in unity (v.21), and they were peacemakers (v.22 see Matthew 5:9). 

The people at the Waters of Mormon remind me of my favorite story in my studies called the Peach Blossom Spring, which was basically a Daoist conception of heaven. (I like the story so much a picture about it became the cover of my latest book.)  So I tend to think if we are called after the Waters of Mormon we should worry more about the society we are creating, the life we are living, and creating a piece of heave with our neighbors, than abandoning or retaining a handy nickname. Or as verse 30 said, using the term Mormon repeatedly, we should worry about having a blessed knowledge of Jesus:  

And now it came to pass that all this was done in Mormon, yea, by the waters of Mormon, in the forest that was near the waters of Mormon; yea, the place of Mormon, the waters of Mormon, the forest of Mormon, how beautiful are they to the eyes of them who there came to the knowledge of their Redeemer; yea, and how blessed are they, for they shall sing to his praise forever.

 

 

Every time I see your avatar I think of my single's ward bishop and what a wonderful man he was and helped me with my return to full activity again after a stint of inactivity and then a calling in my home ward as a co-teacher in Primary. 

He worked at Morgan Deane stock brokerage in SLC, Utah if remembering right. If you were him I would love that! 

[morgan.deane]

22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Every time I see your avatar I think of my single's ward bishop and what a wonderful man he was and helped me with my return to full activity again after a stint of inactivity and then a calling in my home ward as a co-teacher in Primary. 

He worked at Morgan Deane stock brokerage in SLC, Utah if remembering right. If you were him I would love that! 

I totally have that kind of name haha. Glad I could bring positive energy whatever way possible! lol. 

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Where is the revelation from God stating that He does not want the word Mormon used when referring to members of the Church?

I have yet to see one. And if you look closely at what has been said, you will note that seemingly great care has been taken to not paint ourselves into a corner on the matter.

 

I can see many reasons why members might not want to be called after a prophet's name in relation to their spiritual beliefs, but I think you are right in that there has been on doctrine or revelation on the issue.  Unlike what we have with what the church should be called.

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Where is the revelation from God stating that He does not want the word Mormon used when referring to members of the Church?

I have yet to see one. And if you look closely at what has been said, you will note that seemingly great care has been taken to not paint ourselves into a corner on the matter.

 

From the First presidency who are prophets of God:
"When referring to Church members, the terms “members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” or “Latter-day Saints” are preferred. We ask that the term “Mormons” not be used."

Seems to me if the Prophet said this it should be considered a revelation. 
According to Elder Neil L Andersen on the subject. “The President has spoken, the Lord has spoken to the President,”
Sounds Like a revelation to me.

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

From the First presidency who are prophets of God:
"When referring to Church members, the terms “members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” or “Latter-day Saints” are preferred. We ask that the term “Mormons” not be used."

Sorry, but the style guide is not the revealed word of God.

 

Quote

Seems to me if the Prophet said this it should be considered a revelation. 
According to Elder Neil L Andersen on the subject. “The President has spoken, the Lord has spoken to the President,”
Sounds Like a revelation to me.

I read through the article and didn't see any mention about God being opposed to using the word Mormon when talking about members of the Church.

Perhaps I missed it though. Can you please provide the specific quote which addresses this?

 

 

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Seems to me if the Prophet said this it should be considered a revelation. 

According to Elder Neil L Andersen on the subject. “The President has spoken, the Lord has spoken to the President,”
Sounds Like a revelation to me.

Pure assumption.  But probably as close to "this saith the Lord" as we'll get these days.

Edited February 27, 2022 by JLHPROF

[Hamba Tuhan]

11 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Sad. I hope that conditions improve for you soon. 

Same! We're booked in for the Easter weekend but were asked not to pay for accommodation yet just in case ...

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Same! We're booked in for the Easter weekend but were asked not to pay for accommodation yet just in case ...

I just worked my last shift before the temple closes for two weeks of cleaning. Kinda hoping the mask mandate will be lifted when we come back. Newest directive makes masks optional in wards and stakes around here but still required in all areas of the temple. 

[JAHS]

 

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Sorry, but the style guide is not the revealed word of God.

 

I read through the article and didn't see any mention about God being opposed to using the word Mormon when talking about members of the Church.

Perhaps I missed it though. Can you please provide the specific quote which addresses this?

 

 

The style guide and directive came from the First Presidency by revelation as Elder Anderson declared.
In the linked article President Nelson prefaced the style guide with
“The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church"

Sounds like a revelation to me.

Edited February 27, 2022 by JAHS

[Amulek]

19 minutes ago, JAHS said:

The style guide and directive came from the First Presidency by revelation as Elder Anderson declared.

CFR. Please provide the direct quote you are basing this upon.

And please don't just post another link to an entire article which I have to read through only to find out that it doesn't say what you claim it does.

 

Quote

In the linked article President Nelson prefaced the style guide with
“The Lord has impressed upon my mind the importance of the name He has revealed for His Church"

I am aware of this. Now, provide for me the a quote from President Nelson that says how the Lord has revealed that He objects to the word Mormon being used to refer to members of His Church.

 

Quote

Sounds like a revelation to me.

Actually, it sounds like a policy change which is being given the weight of revelation without any actual revelation to back it up.

 

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Actually, it sounds like a policy change which is being given the weight of revelation without any actual revelation to back it up.

The alternative to this is that anything issued or approved by the First Presidency is revelation, because if it wasn't, they wouldn't have issued or approved it. Completely circular. 

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I am aware of this. Now, provide for me the a quote from President Nelson that says how the Lord has revealed that He objects to the word Mormon being used to refer to members of His Church.

I thought I did.  It has to be in those exact words that you specify? 
Nelson has also said:  “The name of the church is not negotiable, When the Savior clearly states what the name of His church should be … He is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used or adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”
Calling members or our church Mormons is using a nickname.
He might not say it in the exact way you want him too but I think it's pretty obvious God would rather we do not call ourselves Mormons.