The top 10 changes President Russell M. Nelson has made in the LDS church

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

I'm going to show my crumudgeonly side by stating that I did not like (and still do not like) the loosening of missionary communications. One of the most valuable things I took from my mission was how to solve problems by consulting with the Lord and listening to his spirit.  Had I been able to frequently consult my dad about the challenges I was facing in the field, I would not have learned that lesson so thoroughly. But I guess that bridge was crossed years ago when email became a thing.  It was a bigger change to reduce the month-long communication lag inherant in snail mail to a weekly e-mail lag, than to go from weekly emails to weekly phone calls. 

Harumph.  Ima just sit here and grouse about kids-these-days and their loud music while I yell at the clouds to get off my lawn. 

Maybe there is something that missionaries today need to learn about the constant communication options in this day and age, that they can get the chance to learn with the way things are set up now, that wasn't necessary for us when we served (because the availability of constant communication was not a thing back then)?

[Stormin' Mormon]

I'm also not a huge fan of the two hour block, which reduces the exposure my daughters have to their young women's leaders. 

I struggle sometimes to be the spiritual leader in my family.  I grew up in a barely-active-then-less-active household, so I don't have any models of family priesthood leadership to draw upon.  I'm just making it up as I go along.  It was always comforting to know that my kids had exposure to other, more powerful testimonies to make up for my deficiencies.  I'm trying to provide spiritual nourishment to my family, but I just don't have the know-how or capability of other families in the stake. 

In terms of spiritual wealth, the change to the two hour block widens the gap between the haves and the have-nots.  Those from strong families will continue to thrive, and those from weaker families will fall further behind with fewer church resources to make up for what they lack.  

 

[Stormin' Mormon]

I should probably say something positive to counteract all my Eyeore posts in this thread.

I've been thrilled with the changes to how and where women can participate in priesthood ordinances.  I am the father of three daughters, the youngest of which turned 12 recently.  In early January, all five of us went to the temple to do baptisms, and there were so many more ways that our whole family was able to participate in that experience. 

I'm also a big fan of the way the Church has handled the pandemic.

Also a big fan of a more diverse, global leadership cadre.  I think that was in the offing for decades, but I'm glad to see it coming to fruition.  I think it takes several generations of membership in an area or country before we see the emergence of that type of solid, general-authority-caliber leadership. Witness, for example, how the first few generations of apostles in the US had a pretty spotty record.  Now that the Church has been growing in Latin America for several generations, it's only natural that we have a generation of seventies, and are now seeing an apostle emerging from that region. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Stormin' Mormon

[Freedom]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

 

Change the ceremony, you change the ordinance.

Our doctrine is not found in a dictionary. 

[JLHPROF]

37 minutes ago, Freedom said:

Our doctrine is not found in a dictionary. 

Then by all means - CFR.

Where in our doctrine is an ordinance defined as anything other than the ritual, rite, or ceremony?

[Freedom]

15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Then by all means - CFR.

Where in our doctrine is an ordinance defined as anything other than the ritual, rite, or ceremony?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2020/11/news-of-the-church/statement-about-temple-ceremony?lang=eng

although the endowment includes ordinances, the endowment itself is not an ordinance. it si a method of teaching gospel principles. the primary focus is the covenants. If we look at an ordinance as a sign of a covenant, with the covenant being the primary factor, the ordinances have not changed. 

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, Freedom said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2020/11/news-of-the-church/statement-about-temple-ceremony?lang=eng

although the endowment includes ordinances, the endowment itself is not an ordinance. it si a method of teaching gospel principles. the primary focus is the covenants. If we look at an ordinance as a sign of a covenant, with the covenant being the primary factor, the ordinances have not changed. 

Except they LITERALLY changed the covenants too.  Repeatedly.

Today we no longer make the same covenants our grandfathers, great grandfather, and pioneer ancestors did.

So as per Joseph's statements, all are not being saved on the same principles.

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Except they LITERALLY changed the covenants too.  Repeatedly.

Today we no longer make the same covenants our grandfathers, great grandfather, and pioneer ancestors did.

So as per Joseph's statements, all are not being saved on the same principles.

Why do you assume the first way of doing the Temple ordinances was the more correct way?

[JAHS]

Here's another more recent one:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We are grateful that the Lord has heard the prayers of so many and provided the direction that has allowed us to navigate the global COVID-19 pandemic which, in some areas of the world, continues. As governments begin to modify the requirements for travel, masks, and other protective measures, we offer the following direction.

We are now encouraging Area Presidencies, in consultation with stake presidencies, to determine on a local basis whether masks should be worn or other precautions should be observed in the various Church meetings and activities. In doing so, local leaders should consider the guidance of local health and government officials and local customs and conditions.

For the time being, masks will still be required in temples, where so many who attend are part of an elderly, more vulnerable population and where our desire is to keep temples open and to have as many as possible participate.

We thank you for your faithfulness in heeding the counsel provided by Church leaders and pray the Lord's continued blessings upon you.

Sincerely,

Russell M. Nelson

Dallin H. Oaks

Henry B. Eyring

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Why do you assume the first way of doing the Temple ordinances was the more correct way?

Because they are.

"He set the temple ordinances to be the same forever and ever and set Adam to watch over them, to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them."

"He (John) commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and afterwards that he should baptize me. Accordingly we went and were baptized. I baptized him first, and afterwards he baptized me, after which I laid my hands upon his head and ordained him to the Aaronic Priesthood, and afterwards he laid his hands on me and ordained me to the same Priesthood—for so we were commanded."

the pattern of endowment garments was revealed from heaven.” Joseph F. Smith

Unless God or his messengers made a mistake delivering these things personally nothing should be changed of key practices and ritual.  Certainly not by men praying and feeling good about changing them.

Unless John the Baptist or his head comes down and directs a change in baptism all the Apostles of the Church would have no right to do so.

Unless Peter, James, or John pay a visit the Melchizedek priesthood should be left alone.

NO Church committee has any right, no matter how much they pray first.  The ordinances aren't theirs to change.  No matter what survey of members say.

[Teancum]

On 2/17/2022 at 4:59 PM, JLHPROF said:

Not the final say.  That rests with God.  But as far as I'm concerned he does get the final say over any subsequent prophets.

How come he gets the say over subsequent prophets?  And practically how does that work anyway?  What do you think he would think abuot the church today and the changes that have occured since he died?

[CA Steve]

18 hours ago, ttribe said:

Why do you assume the first way of doing the Temple ordinances was the more correct way?

Why do we assume any way of doing the temple ordinance is more correct than another or even correct at all?

[Teancum]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, The Nehor said:

 

Interesting how that one is getting so many caveats and explanations tacked on.

 

Every member is a cafeteria Latter day Saint.

[Calm]

58 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Every member is a cafeteria Latter day Saint.

Everyone approaches life in a cafeteria way.  We don’t have time or resources to take everything in or be supportive of everything we encounter.  So why should religion be any different?

[Olmec Donald]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Every member is a cafeteria Latter day Saint.

 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Everyone approaches life in a cafeteria way.  We don’t have time or resources to take everything in or be supportive of everything we encounter.  So why should religion be any different?

 

In general support of the cafeteria approach:

If you assume things are true by convention, which is actually what most people do, then it's difficult to gain insight into how things might be bettered. - Elon Musk

When we all think alike, then no one is thinking. - Walter Lippmann

Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively. - The Dalai Lama

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Everyone approaches life in a cafeteria way.  We don’t have time or resources to take everything in or be supportive of everything we encounter.  So why should religion be any different?

Well in this specific case those who are complaining about the position of church leaders on covid and the vaccines would likely view themselves as faithful members who normally would say on most other things to "follow the prophet."  But I guess they apparently have limits.  I know quite a few.

[bluebell]

48 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Well in this specific case those who are complaining about the position of church leaders on covid and the vaccines would likely view themselves as faithful members who normally would say on most other things to "follow the prophet."  But I guess they apparently have limits.  I know quite a few.

I agree with you.

It's easy to spout off "Follow the prophet!" when you've always generally agreed with everything that he's said.  There isn't anything at stake in those scenarios and doing what you want to do anyway and having it also agree with what the prophet is saying isn't anything to brag about. 

It's when it becomes a choice between Follow the Prophet or Do What I Want that the rubber meets the road.

[mbh26]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:09 PM, longview said:

No need to escalate a fight when it is the church's policy to keep politics out of the ward house.

I would suspect the bishop would pull me aside if I spouted Ben Shapiro political opinion in church.  But I've seen plenty of lefties get a pass on this.  Perhaps they're used to the workplace where only left of center political speech is allowed.  Does this same double standard apply in the lds church?  Perhaps the bishop just doesn't ask them to speak again?  Or do they actually privately tell the far left to keep the politics out as well?  I guess anyone can say anything in testimony meeting.

Edited February 20, 2022 by mbh26