I am so not ready for Armageddon

[The Nehor]

On 12/6/2021 at 7:26 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Anyway, get ready…what you fear and speak of, is coming sooner rather than later. Oh, sorry for the long worded reply. But, to your point, no one is or ever will be prepared, at least mentally. 

And some people think it is a great idea to try it and see what happens.

If global nuclear armageddon hits my plan is to put this song on repeat and wait to die:

 

[Stargazer]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:26 AM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Ironically, there was a book released a few decades ago, where the author used my very Squadron, and area of the border where I served. He wrote that WWIII would begin when Russia will attack through the “Fulda Gap”.

Perhaps that was "Team Yankee" by Harold Coyle. Or alternatively, the books Coyle borrowed his opening scenario from: General Sir John Hackett's books, "The Third World War" and "The Third World War: The Untold Story". 

I was part of AFCENT back in the 80s, a microwave radio repairer for the Central Region Signal Group. Much later I ran into a man who had been in Germany at the same time, but his role was considerably different: I don't know what the job title would have been, but his little unit had the job of hanging around not far from the border, and if the balloon ever went up, their job was the hunker down in a hidey hole and wait for the lead elements of the Warsaw Pact to pass by. Whereupon they would come out to surveil the Pact rear, provide radio intelligence of follow-on units, as well as conduct rear-area disruption operations. Scary stuff.

[Olmec Donald]

22 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

All too well. 

"Greater love hath no man than this; that he lay down his life for his friends."

Just because you never had to go through with it doesn't diminish it.  I think we will be judged by how much we loved rather than how much we screwed up, and greater love hath no man than what you offered for your friends, as well as for people you didn't even know. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Olmec Donald

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 12/7/2021 at 4:23 PM, Calm said:

Nah, keep sharing.  This is fun.  And you tell it well.  A certain rhythm to it.  Catches me up into it.

If only I had spelled “winded” correctly. Sadly I wrote “sorry for the long “winder” comments”. I hate this program that try’s to choose the word for you.

[Tacenda]

I don't think Armageddon will happen I think climate change is what is going to bring it to a halt. Or it'll happen first, and then Armageddon.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Tacenda

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I don't think Armageddon will happen I think climate change is what is going to bring it to a halt. Or it'll happen first, and then Armageddon.

Maybe they will be simultaneous!  Much more interesting that way.

[strappinglad]

You are welcome to take this with a teaspoon of salt. A colleague of mine served in the US army posted in Germany during the cold war. He said that when he first arrived, he was told that his group were likely to experience 90+% casualties if the Russians attacked. Later on he was informed that nuclear devices had been planted along the border and those would be used to stop any invasion in its tracks. Maybe that was said just to improve morale but whatever. 

[Olmec Donald]

7 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

... he was informed that nuclear devices had been planted along the border and those would be used to stop any invasion in its tracks. Maybe that was said just to improve morale but whatever. 

Ha!  I'm sure that news did wonders for morale!

"Hey you guys guarding the border, don't worry, we've planted nuclear land mines right where you are!"

Edited December 12, 2021 by Olmec Donald

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, strappinglad said:

You are welcome to take this with a teaspoon of salt. A colleague of mine served in the US army posted in Germany during the cold war. He said that when he first arrived, he was told that his group were likely to experience 90+% casualties if the Russians attacked. Later on he was informed that nuclear devices had been planted along the border and those would be used to stop any invasion in its tracks. Maybe that was said just to improve morale but whatever. 

More likely the nukes would be hitting them comin from the Soviet side

One of the differences in Soviet and US nuclear doctrine is how they viewed nukes. The US saw them as a strategic weapon which is how they were used against Japan and were basically more than a little afraid of them. Soviet military operations at the end of the Second World War hinged on artillery blowing a hole in enemy lines and charging armor through. They saw nukes as the biggest and best artillery weapons ever made for blowing a hole in the enemy lines. Fortunately the US seeing nukes as strategic weapons and promising/threatening to use them strategically if the Soviets used them on the operational level kept the peace.

The Soviets developed more strategic weapons quickly to balance the scales and the end of the Cold War was the elimination of the medium range weapons that would be used in a European conflict. Both sides could still cripple each other with strategic weapons but both sides gave up the weapons that were best used to support a conventional campaign to fight over Europe. Hence Cold War over. The Yeltsin/Gorbachev coup chain helped too I guess.

[Tacenda]

What happened to the "star wars weapons" or Strategic Defense Initiative of the Reagan era? Weren't they made to only go into space and target enemy fire? That'd be nice! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

Edited December 13, 2021 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

43 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

What happened to the "star wars weapons" or Strategic Defense Initiative of the Reagan era? Weren't they made to only go into space and target enemy fire? That'd be nice! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

It was too expensive and was scaled back under Bush (first one). It might have been workable with enough time and money (Reagan said it would probably not be workable until the next century) but the political will was never there to continue it on that scale. There were too many countermeasures to deal with. While the ideas involved were very neat from a scientific and just coolness perspective it is just plain hard to target a missile in flight or at launch with weapons from space or defenses hundreds or thousands of miles away. Countermeasures are easy to add (decoys, jamming, spoofing, etc) to missiles compared to defeating them. This assumes a roughly symmetrical level of development. It would be harder for a less developed nation to add such countermeasures.

It has been argued that SDI served a purpose as it helped strain the Soviet budget to the breaking point so they had to abandon the Cold War arms race. SDI was never entirely abandoned. There are ground and ship-based missile defense systems but they are designed to counteract a small strike from a nation like North Korea or Iran but not a general strategic attack from Russia or China. If North Korea were to launch an ICBM at the USA I would give good odds it could and would be taken down. Not guaranteed, but good odds. Of course the odds are also fair that the missile would fail in any case on its own.

[bsjkki]

I know some military people getting deployed unexpectedly right now. Tense times.

[strappinglad]

We can't have Armageddon until the world figures out the use of correct pronouns.🙃

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

We can't have Armageddon until the world figures out the use of correct pronouns.🙃

A new pronoun for each type of corpse.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I know some military people getting deployed unexpectedly right now. Tense times.

Probably cautionary moves based on the situation in the Ukraine.

[rodheadlee]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

What happened to the "star wars weapons" or Strategic Defense Initiative of the Reagan era? Weren't they made to only go into space and target enemy fire? That'd be nice! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

We have the ability to shoot down ICBM missiles from the ground.

[Orthodox Christian]

On 12/5/2021 at 4:51 PM, longview said:

At what point do you think the temple will be built in the latter day Old Jerusalem?  There are many scriptures that relate to it.

Good morning, this is interesting. Do you mean a Jewish temple, in which case all the rituals if the old testament should be restored despite the OT being fulfilled in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ? I don't think the Muslims will give up the temple mount without a serious fight because it is sacred to them also, so actual site might be a problem. Also, I think if ritual sacrifice which was integral to Jewish temple worship was reinstated, there would be an outcry from animal rights groups.

[longview]

5 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Good morning, this is interesting. Do you mean a Jewish temple, in which case all the rituals if the old testament should be restored despite the OT being fulfilled in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Sounds like you are not LDS.  The commentary from some LDS leaders is that the temple will be built under the authority of the Church.

5 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I don't think the Muslims will give up the temple mount without a serious fight because it is sacred to them also, so actual site might be a problem.

Other LDS commentators believe the Mosque will actually be moved to another location.

5 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Also, I think if ritual sacrifice which was integral to Jewish temple worship was reinstated, there would be an outcry from animal rights groups.

Not sure about that.  However, I seem to recall some obscure notes that as part of the "Restoration of All Things" animal sacrifices will be performed in some limited fashion.

In this day and age, moslems continue their ritual of animal sacrifices.  But there is NO hue and cry, it would be VERY un-PC to criticize Islam.

[Orthodox Christian]

3 hours ago, longview said:

Sounds like you are not LDS.  The commentary from some LDS leaders is that the temple will be built under the authority of the Church.

Other LDS commentators believe the Mosque will actually be moved to another location.

Not sure about that.  However, I seem to recall some obscure notes that as part of the "Restoration of All Things" animal sacrifices will be performed in some limited fashion.

In this day and age, moslems continue their ritual of animal sacrifices.  But there is NO hue and cry, it would be VERY un-PC to criticize Islam.

Why would there be a need for animal sacrifice when Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was the final, ultimate sacrifice rendering the OT sacrificial worship obsolete. I can't understand how any Christian tradition could reinstate it.

[longview]

3 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Why would there be a need for animal sacrifice when Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was the final, ultimate sacrifice rendering the OT sacrificial worship obsolete. I can't understand how any Christian tradition could reinstate it.

I agree with you.  The Law of Moses with its many rituals and endless sacrifices pointed people to the ultimate great and last sacrifice by the Savior.  However, I have read that important symbolism as practiced by Adam and Eve and their posterity need to be re-enacted.  As I said, in some limited fashion.  Here is a website that explains the need for the "re-enactment" - - -

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_teach_animal_sacrifice_as_part_of_the_"restoration_of_all_things"%3F

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role as part of the restoration of all things in this dispensation:

Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character. (Doctrines of Salvation 3:94)

[Stargazer]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:30 PM, strappinglad said:

You are welcome to take this with a teaspoon of salt. A colleague of mine served in the US army posted in Germany during the cold war. He said that when he first arrived, he was told that his group were likely to experience 90+% casualties if the Russians attacked. Later on he was informed that nuclear devices had been planted along the border and those would be used to stop any invasion in its tracks. Maybe that was said just to improve morale but whatever. 

We were told that critical bridges in Germany that had been built during the Cold War had built-in features to enable easily blowing them up in order to help slow down a Warsaw Pact invasion. As I mentioned above, long after my service in the Army I ran into a guy who said that he was in a rather elite unit whose job was to hunker down and let the invaders pass by, and then emerge to provide intelligence and fight in their rear areas to disrupt their operations. The gentleman in question was not some rando with a boast -- I knew him, and he was an administrative law judge for the state of Washington. I assume he wasn't making things up. So the idea that some bridges were built with destruction in mind was perfectly believable.

[Stargazer]

On 12/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, The Nehor said:

Probably cautionary moves based on the situation in the Ukraine.

Yep. I wouldn't put too much stress on it. When I was serving in the Army (1975-1983) we would find ourselves being put on one level of alert or another on the occasion of various overseas events. In the 9th Infantry Division the task of being the alert subunit would rotate among all the subordinate combat units on a fixed schedule, even when things were quiet. When it was our battalion's turn, the "alert company" would go from Company A to Company C (3 companies in an infantry battalion at that time), and when you were in the "alert company" they would require that everyone in the company stay in barracks for that week (including the married soldiers) with all equipment in readiness to head immediately for the nearby air base for deployment in advance of the rest of the division, with the remainder of the battalion ready to follow on within a few days (in our case, we were designated for Korea, since we were on the west coast). Fun times.

In other words, some combat unit or another is always in alert status.

[Orthodox Christian]

8 hours ago, longview said:

I agree with you.  The Law of Moses with its many rituals and endless sacrifices pointed people to the ultimate great and last sacrifice by the Savior.  However, I have read that important symbolism as practiced by Adam and Eve and their posterity need to be re-enacted.  As I said, in some limited fashion.  Here is a website that explains the need for the "re-enactment" - - -

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_teach_animal_sacrifice_as_part_of_the_"restoration_of_all_things"%3F

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role

Joseph Fielding Smith stated that animal sacrifice would happen again to fulfill a symbolic role as part of the restoration of all things in this dispensation:

Now in the nature of things, the law of sacrifice will have to be restored, or all things which were decreed by the Lord would not be restored. It will be necessary, therefore, for the sons of Levi, who offered the blood sacrifices anciently in Israel, to offer such a sacrifice again to round out and complete this ordinance in this dispensation. Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored.

The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character. (Doctrines of Salvation 3:94)

Is there a need to restore something that is obsolete, that serves no purpose, new wine in old skins comes to mind. What can it symbolise, when the sacrifice made by Christ is the ultimate? What can it point to or be a type of now that Christ has died for us once and for all, and His great work has been completed for us in His glorious Resurrection? To restore any kind of symbolic animal sacrifice surely would mean nothing and actually would be akin to throwing the salvific work of the Lord in His face. 

[longview]

9 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Is there a need to restore something that is obsolete, that serves no purpose, new wine in old skins comes to mind.

Not obsolete considering the current dispensation we are now in:

Ephesians 1:10. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Acts 3:21. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

9 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

What can it symbolise, when the sacrifice made by Christ is the ultimate?

There are priesthood ordinances and rituals that must be observed and performed.  Please re-read the explanation by Joseph Fielding Smith in the earlier post.  Another priesthood ordinance that has been prophesied thousands of years past will be performed in the Latter Days: 

Daniel 7:13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Doctrine & Covenants 116:1. Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

There will be a meeting at Adam-ondi-Ahman where all the heads (leaders) of past dispensations will make an accounting of their priesthood stewardships and to return the priesthood keys to the Lord Himself.

10 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

What can it point to or be a type of now that Christ has died for us once and for all, and His great work has been completed for us in His glorious Resurrection?

The sacrifices were types and foreshadowing before the First Coming of the Lord in the flesh.  Those rituals that are observed afterwards, such as the sacrament of the Lord's Supper of bread and water (wine) as a memorial.  In remembrance of the Lord's ultimate sacrifice.  These are all done by priesthood ordinance and authority.

10 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

To restore any kind of symbolic animal sacrifice surely would mean nothing and actually would be akin to throwing the salvific work of the Lord in His face. 

No, it would not because all these ordinances were commanded by God.  Many of them were prophesied for centuries and millenia, many to be fulfilled in the Latter Days.

 

[Tacenda]

17 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Is there a need to restore something that is obsolete, that serves no purpose, new wine in old skins comes to mind. What can it symbolise, when the sacrifice made by Christ is the ultimate? What can it point to or be a type of now that Christ has died for us once and for all, and His great work has been completed for us in His glorious Resurrection? To restore any kind of symbolic animal sacrifice surely would mean nothing and actually would be akin to throwing the salvific work of the Lord in His face. 

Agree!