Covid stats

[Emily]

So, I decided to Google up a couple of articles on why this weird obsession with de-worming medication ever got started. I really am mystified -- people are poisoning themselves with dog wormers just to avoid a vaccine? Seriously? Why?

 And I found a surprise toy in the bottom of the cereal box. I'm offering it to all the investigative afficiendos out there (you know who you are):

THE CASE OF THE “Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic” RESEARCH STUDY... A Fascinating Study of a Potential Fraud

A fun highlight in a rather long read to encourage you to keep going:

"For example, the study reports getting ethical approval and beginning on the 8th of June, 2020, but in the data file uploaded by the authors onto the website of the preprint fully 1/3 of the people who died from COVID-19 were already dead when the researchers started to recruit their patients. "

https://gidmk.medium.com/is-ivermectin-for-covid-19-based-on-fraudulent-research-5cc079278602

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

The good news is, those readers who refuse to be vaccinated.. once you get sick, you can join a study to take Invermectin, or other trial treatments at this site:

https://secure.phc.ox.ac.uk/sentry/national111/live/survey/open?id=screening&path=dept

(Note to potential participants, they don't promise you'll survive COVID. But at least they won't poison you with horse pills.)

More about current research on various proposed COVID treatments can be found here: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57570377

[mburgess1982]

1 hour ago, Emily said:

A business would be pretty awful to wait until all the staff was sick or dead before they closed.

A great many businesses closed down without government mandates. My son's company moved to telecommute extremely early in the COVID crises, long before mandates were extended, and stayed telecommute well after the state "reopened." 

My husband, who works from a home office, also went full telecommute very early in the crises - no longer visiting clients. To date, only one of his clients has asked him to travel to their company, and many of his client companies are only now slowly reopening their offices and being very liberal with employees who prefer to continue working from home.

Government mandates wouldn't be needed if people would simply act like rational human beings on their own. Rational behaviors like, go get vaccinated, eradicate a virus before it mutates and starts killing children  

Personal decisions to close businesses due to fear, and or closing due to Government lockdowns were all primarily driven by the fear from the massive CCP propaganda campaign on social media that started in China, NOT because everybody was getting sick and dying 

Remember all of those people that dropped dead in the streets in China from the Coronavirus back in Feb March 2020? How many other cities across the globe did you see people randomly dropping dead in the streets from the Virus? Zero
 

 

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, Emily said:

So, I decided to Google up a couple of articles on why this weird obsession with de-worming medication ever got started. I really am mystified -- people are poisoning themselves with dog wormers just to avoid a vaccine? Seriously? Why?

 And I found a surprise toy in the bottom of the cereal box. I'm offering it to all the investigative afficiendos out there (you know who you are):

THE CASE OF THE “Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic” RESEARCH STUDY... A Fascinating Study of a Potential Fraud

A fun highlight in a rather long read to encourage you to keep going:

"For example, the study reports getting ethical approval and beginning on the 8th of June, 2020, but in the data file uploaded by the authors onto the website of the preprint fully 1/3 of the people who died from COVID-19 were already dead when the researchers started to recruit their patients. "

He has a gift:

Quote

There’s no nice, easy ending for me to close on here. The investigation about this study is ongoing, and one day maybe we’ll have the story in its totality, but in the meantime the damage has been done. The horse has left the room, lived a long and full life in the fields, and its descendants are taking steaming dumps on the broken wasteland where there once was a barn.

 

[mburgess1982]

23 minutes ago, Emily said:

So, I decided to Google up a couple of articles on why this weird obsession with de-worming medication ever got started. I really am mystified -- people are poisoning themselves with dog wormers just to avoid a vaccine? Seriously? Why?

 And I found a surprise toy in the bottom of the cereal box. I'm offering it to all the investigative afficiendos out there (you know who you are):

THE CASE OF THE “Efficacy and Safety of Ivermectin for Treatment and prophylaxis of COVID-19 Pandemic” RESEARCH STUDY... A Fascinating Study of a Potential Fraud

A fun highlight in a rather long read to encourage you to keep going:

"For example, the study reports getting ethical approval and beginning on the 8th of June, 2020, but in the data file uploaded by the authors onto the website of the preprint fully 1/3 of the people who died from COVID-19 were already dead when the researchers started to recruit their patients. "

https://gidmk.medium.com/is-ivermectin-for-covid-19-based-on-fraudulent-research-5cc079278602

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

The good news is, those readers who refuse to be vaccinated.. once you get sick, you can join a study to take Invermectin, or other trial treatments at this site:

https://secure.phc.ox.ac.uk/sentry/national111/live/survey/open?id=screening&path=dept

(Note to potential participants, they don't promise you'll survive COVID. But at least they won't poison you with horse pills.)

More about current research on various proposed COVID treatments can be found here: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57570377

Rather than "googling" it, why not seek out doctors who are actually treating patients with it and see what they have to say. Get some real boots on the ground information 




 

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Remember all of those people that dropped dead in the streets in China from the Coronavirus back in Feb March 2020? How many other cities across the globe did you see people randomly dropping dead in the streets from the Virus? Zero

You mean the video fact-checked by MSM and found to be false?

https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-art-performance/false-claim-picture-shows-people-dying-of-coronavirus-in-the-streets-idUSKBN21F05U

A similar one:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/12/blog-posting/no-video-doesnt-show-man-dropping-dead-covid-19-ne/

However, it occurred in India to a few at least forced to wait outside hospitals to be treated due to lack of room apparently.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-india-covid/fact-check-authentic-covid-19-news-reports-from-india-show-people-have-died-outside-hospital-while-waiting-for-treatment-idUSL1N2MM0Q9

Edited September 27, 2021 by Calm

[Emily]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/09/23/people-end-up-in-icu-after-attending-covid-party/?sh=3baff5e776af

My first four children were in preschool/elementary before the chicken pox vaccine was available. The pox was making it's rounds at the school one year, and this one mother at church asked if anyone had children with chicken pox because they had a big vacation planned that summer and she wanted to get them all exposed so they wouldn't get sick that summer. It didn't set well with me at the time --  one of the kids was a baby, too young to develop proper immunity with an infection, so I thought she was misinformed as well as being rather heartless. How much individual care could she give her kids if all four got sick at the same time?

News came out about the vaccine after my first two children had already been infected, and I started asking my pedestrian about it, but it wasn't available yet. I did my darndest to prevent the other two children from being exposed, hoping I could hold off until the vaccine was available, but the two year old was exposed in nursery by a child whose parent knew their child was sick, but brought him to church anyway, because "everyone will catch it eventually anyway."  Never mind that children under two didn't develop proper immunity and could catch it again.

My daughter caught it from her brother and ended up in the hospital with an uncontrolled fever. She was semi-comatose for three days and at risk of having meningitis. We lived in terror for three days because an idiot at church thought she had the personal right to allow her child to spread a disease.

By the time my fifth child was born, the vaccine was available and he never had to experience the discomfort and potential scarring of chicken pox. I'd already had the other four children vaccinated as well, as soon as it was available, because two of them had caught it before they were two.

I wish I'd had the sense to have myself vaccinated as well, because despite having it as a child, my immunity waned and I was in my fifties and caught the pox from an UNVACCINATED child.  Only we call it shingles at that age. And it's painful. Very, very painful. I might have still caught it even if I'd been vaccinated. But I would not have caught it had the child in question been properly vaccinated.

In other words, anti-vaxxers shouldn't be trotting out chicken pox as a good example of the wisdom of letting a virus run wild. It was stupid and inconsiderate to spread the Pox around willy-nilly with no thought about immune compromised or elderly people before the vaccine was invented, and it is still stupid and irresponsible now.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Emily

[pogi]

57 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Johns Hopkins gets their numbers from the US Dept of Health and Human Services.  Perhaps Utah is underreporting their numbers to the feds?

You think that UDOH is giving accurate info to John Hopkins, but lying to the feds and Utahn’s on the state dashboard?  Isn’t it more reasonable to conclude that John Hopkins made a clerical error as their reported numbers don’t match up with what UDOH reports?  Not only must you conclude that UDOH is lying, but you must also conclude that local Heath departments in every county are lying, that hospital systems like IHC and UofU health are lying, that ICU doctors and nurses are lying to the media, that the Utah Hospital Association is lying...  It gets kind of ridiculous that you would rather accuse all of these distinct organizations and individuals of fueling the same lie instead of seeing a mistake on John Hopkins end.  That how conspiracy theories work I suppose.

It didn’t go unnoticed that you failed to address what is happening in Idaho.  All a bunch of liars there too?

Edited September 28, 2021 by pogi

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Emily said:

We lived in terror for three days because an idiot at church thought she had the personal right to allow her child to spread a disease.

Did you tell them?

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Rather than "googling" it, why not seek out doctors who are actually treating patients with it and see what they have to say. Get some real boots on the ground information 

My personal track record with doctors using off label drugs is poor.  I prefer to refer to credible studies (as opposed to possibly fraudulent ones).

To be thorough, I have been very grateful in one case only, though the drug had small studies done already for this use and I had noticed its effectiveness when taking it for a different issue.  The decision to use it was therefore based even more on my personal experience.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, mburgess1982 said:

He 100% made it up 

Nope, but just keep repeating it until it becomes a fact to you. Standard operating procedure. You might want to spice it up a bit though. Claim I am an evil clone of JFK Jr who is being paid to spread lies by George Soros or something. As it stands it will never go mainstream amongst the conspiracy nuts.

[Harry T. Clark]

8 minutes ago, pogi said:

You think that UDOH is giving accurate info to John Hopkins, but lying to the feds and Utahn’s on the state dashboard?  Isn’t it more reasonable to conclude that John Hopkins made a clerical error as their reported numbers don’t match up with what UDOH reports?  Not only must you conclude that UDOH is lying, but you must also conclude that local Heath departments in every county are lying, that hospital systems like IHC and UofU health are lying, that ICU doctors and nurses are lying to the media, that the Utah Hospital Association is lying...  It gets kind of ridiculous that you would rather accuse all of these distinct organizations and individuals of fueling the same lie instead of seeing a mistake on John Hopkins end.  That how conspiracy theories work I suppose.

It didn’t go unnoticed that you failed to address what is happening in Idaho.  All a bunch of liars there too?

I looked at the UDOH website and couldn't find any hospital data like the federal government supplies to Johns Hopkins.  Perhaps you could point me to where you get your numbers/data?  Maybe this will resolve our mystery?  (Although, I kinda like the conspiracy theory you invented about everyone lying.  It fails to diminish my points, but, was a nice try.) 

Thinking about it and making a guess, the differences in numbers probably lies in how, wherever you get your numbers, available beds are defined.  Perhaps a little massaging in the numbers you get is occurring?  Perhaps the Utah hospitals are reporting the available beds to the federal government (the true number) but only reporting the beds that the hospitals believe can be adequately staffed without hiring more staff to the newspapers?  Maybe it's like last year when the UofU focused on their capacity and how it was close to being filled, while conveniently leaving out the available capacity in other nearby hospitals?

[mburgess1982]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

You mean the video fact-checked by MSM and found to be false?

https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-8509320385

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-art-performance/false-claim-picture-shows-people-dying-of-coronavirus-in-the-streets-idUSKBN21F05U

A similar one:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/12/blog-posting/no-video-doesnt-show-man-dropping-dead-covid-19-ne/

However, it occurred in India to a few at least forced to wait outside hospitals to be treated due to lack of room apparently.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-india-covid/fact-check-authentic-covid-19-news-reports-from-india-show-people-have-died-outside-hospital-while-waiting-for-treatment-idUSL1N2MM0Q9

What do you mean found to be false, of course it was false but it was presented in the media at the time as being true and the masses believed it. People were collapsing in the streets of China due to the Coronavirus so you should be afraid. Very afraid

This entire scary "Pandemic" started out as a lie, right from the very beginning

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10808633/coronavirus-wuhan-zombieland/


 

[mburgess1982]

19 minutes ago, Calm said:

My personal track record with doctors using off label drugs is poor.  I prefer to refer to credible studies (as opposed to possibly fraudulent ones).

To be thorough, I have been very grateful in one case only, though the drug had small studies done already for this use and I had noticed its effectiveness when taking it for a different issue.  The decision to use it was therefore based even more on my personal experience.

If you had to choose between a doctor that had treated 6000 Covid patients successfully with virtually no deaths using an early treatment protocol that involved Ivermectin as well as a suite of multiple other drugs vs going to the hospital and being put on remdesivir and then possibly a ventilator where over half the patients die which would you pick? I would pick the doctor with the better track record, wouldn't really care what he was giving me as long as it worked

[mburgess1982]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Nope, but just keep repeating it until it becomes a fact to you. Standard operating procedure. You might want to spice it up a bit though. Claim I am an evil clone of JFK Jr who is being paid to spread lies by George Soros or something. As it stands it will never go mainstream amongst the conspiracy nuts.

You claimed schools were closing due to teachers dying. Literally never happened anywhere. 

You made it up

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

You claimed schools were closing due to teachers dying. Literally never happened anywhere. 

 Not true:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-school-district-closes-teachers-die-covid/story?id=79773758

https://www.wtvq.com/2021/08/25/greenup-county-health-teacher-dies-from-covid-19-schools-closed-rest-of-week/

Edited September 28, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

you had to choose between a doctor that had treated 6000 Covid patients successfully with virtually no deaths using an early treatment protocol that involved Ivermectin as well as a suite of multiple other drugs vs going to the hospital and being put on remdesivir and then possibly a ventilator where over half the patients die which would you pick?

You assume only two options when there are more.  My brother was given Remdesvir and was never put on a ventilator.  Which is what I expect would likely happen to me if I actually was hospitalized because I am vaccinated.

Plus I would want more info about the doctor, what type they were and details about if the patients were tested, if they were all of their Covid patients or not, the severity of their infection, if asymptotic or not…for example, if most their patients with a serious condition went to another doctor because the first doctor was a specialist in an unrelated field, one could expect a vey low mortality rate.  Also if most patients were younger or they treated anyone who came in and said “I have been exposed to Covid” without testing, even if there were no symptoms (preventative care), that would lower probability of mortality.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Calm

[mburgess1982]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

You assume only two options when there are more.  My brother was given Remdesvir and was never put on a ventilator.  Which is what I expect would likely happen to me if I actually was hospitalized because I am vaccinated.

Plus I would want more info about the doctor, what type they were and details about if the patients were tested, if they were all of their Covid patients or not, the severity of their infection, if asymptotic or not…

Fair enough

[mburgess1982]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

 Not true:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-school-district-closes-teachers-die-covid/story?id=79773758

https://www.wtvq.com/2021/08/25/greenup-county-health-teacher-dies-from-covid-19-schools-closed-rest-of-week/

I take that back, I hadn't heard that. So two schools temporarily closed

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

I take that back, I hadn't heard that. So two schools temporarily closed

Those were only the ones I found in the first minute or two.  I wasn’t going for an exhaustive list or even a general survey, but simply to disprove the absolute.

Unfortunately the Texas case has flooded the news, so it is harder to dig out the other cases.  Here is another after another minute:

https://www.wflx.com/2021/08/27/indian-river-county-dealing-with-school-closure-teacher-deaths/

There could be a problem in finding examples because a closure may or may not be publicized or attached to the deaths of teachers even when the deaths are the reason for the closure.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Calm

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Perhaps you could point me to where you get your numbers/data? 

https://coronavirus-dashboard.utah.gov/hosp.html

It shows 471/519 ICU beds occupied. 

1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

(Although, I kinda like the conspiracy theory you invented about everyone lying.  It fails to diminish my points, but, was a nice try.) 

When you suggest that hospitals are not full and that the numbers are exaggerated, then all of those people I listed would have to be lying for that to be true.  

1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Thinking about it and making a guess, the differences in numbers probably lies in how, wherever you get your numbers, available beds are defined.  Perhaps a little massaging in the numbers you get is occurring?  Perhaps the Utah hospitals are reporting the available beds to the federal government (the true number) but only reporting the beds that the hospitals believe can be adequately staffed without hiring more staff to the newspapers?  Maybe it's like last year when the UofU focused on their capacity and how it was close to being filled, while conveniently leaving out the available capacity in other nearby hospitals?

Here is an interpretation of the numbers UDOH lists in terms of capacity:

Quote

Note about ICU Utilization: The UDOH receives reports about the total number of available ICU beds in the state. However, this reporting does not reflect the number of staffed beds able to care for patients. At about 69% overall ICU utilization, ICUs in Utah’s major hospitals with the ability to provide best care for COVID-19 patients begin to reach staffing capacity. Seventy-two percent use among all hospitals and 77% in Referral Center hospitals creates major strains on the healthcare system. When 85% capacity is reached, Utah will be functionally out of staffed ICU beds, indicating an overwhelmed hospital system.

I am interested in what the bold section means.  It certainly seems unclear what they are reporting and you may be correct that it is based on staffing capacity.  Either way you look at it they are beyond functional capacity a.k.a "full", which is basically 69% - beyond that care starts to diminish.  That is what they are telling us in the news.  I don't think they are lying.  Do you?

I did look up the number being reported on the US Department of Health web site.  It looks like it is not John Hopkin's error.  They are accurately reporting the numbers reported there:

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

What do you think of Idaho and other states implementing crisis standards of care (a first in Idaho history)?  Is that an exaggeration? 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by pogi

[Emily]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

2 hours ago, Emily said:

We lived in terror for three days because an idiot at church thought she had the personal right to allow her child to spread a disease.

Did you tell them?

I never talked to the mother about it because I never knew the exact person involved.

The primary leaders told us the kids had been exposed and several other kids came down with it at the same time, so we knew the source of the infection.

I asked the nursery leader about the situation several weeks later when I was able to go back to church. She told me one of the parents had brought a child to nursery and the leader had noticed suspicious spots that didn't look completely healed and asked the mother about it. The mother admitted her son had the Pox but he was feeling better, and "everyone would catch it anyway" so she didn't think it would be a problem. 

The nursery leader was exasperated as well, but she didn't divulge the name of the child or the parents. Probably just as well - in her position I wouldn't have named any names either. It had been over a month by the time all my kids had recovered and I was sure they were no longer infectious, so it was water under the bridge at that point. But I still think it was irresponsible of the parents.

 

[Emily]

3 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

Rather than "googling" it, why not seek out doctors who are actually treating patients with it and see what they have to say. Get some real boots on the ground information 

I like to get my information from studies conducted with proper and proven scientific methodology and large enough populations to rule out coincidence and bias. And I tend to treat even those with a grain of salt until the findings have been replicated numerous times.

But if you have links to the "boots on the ground" testimonials you have in mind, I'll be happy to read them. Mind you, I have a very large salt shaker and a tendency to spread it around if something tastes a bit off.

[Emily]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Either way you look at it they are beyond functional capacity a.k.a "full", which is basically 69% - beyond that care starts to diminish.  That is what they are telling us in the news.  I don't think they are lying.  

You make a good point Pogi. I've posted before about the sub- standard conditions my father had during his last hospital visit. Yes, technically, the hospital had a bed for him, but it was M*A*S*H* level care conditions, without any of the humor. He was confused and frightened for most of his stay and visitors were so limited, we couldn't even have family members take shifts to help take care of him.

Hospital bed numbers mean nothing if there aren't staff members and equipment to go with them.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

 Not true:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/texas-school-district-closes-teachers-die-covid/story?id=79773758

https://www.wtvq.com/2021/08/25/greenup-county-health-teacher-dies-from-covid-19-schools-closed-rest-of-week/

And here I was thinking I made it up.

/sarcasm

[Hamba Tuhan]

54 minutes ago, Emily said:

I've posted before about the sub- standard conditions my father had during his last hospital visit.

Last week, one of my American acquaintances posted on Facebook how horrible Covid is. She's unvaccinated, of course, and is now experiencing what she describes as 'the worst pain of my entire life'. She then went on to complain about the poor care she has received. She has gone to emergency three times, and all three times she has been sent home instead of placed on a ward. My niece works at the hospital and has told me what is going down (such as ICU nurses working eight 12-hours shifts in a row). As politely as I could, I reminded this woman that no doubt the local hospital and its staff are doing everything they can, but this is what happens when people make 'personal medical decisions' that overwhelm their local health systems.

It's crazy to me that people think they have a right to gold-standard medical treatment after they and all their friends make a conscious, 'informed' decision to fall seriously sick at roughly the same time.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan