Covid stats

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Chum said:

Dang. I missed where you said you were going to vet your info before posting.

And the part where I spoke about "crowd sourcing" the vetting by having multiple people with differing perspectives, thought processes, etc. weigh in.  

As Joseph Smith put it: “By proving contraries, truth is made manifest.”

Thanks,

-Smac

[Chum]

1 hour ago, mburgess1982 said:

Again it is not the actual virus that is shuttering businesses

This is false. Sick and dead people cause every level of damage to a business. Again, I mitigate this for a living. Please stop claiming false things.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, webbles said:

So you think we shouldn't have tried to make a vaccine for polio?  That we should have just left polio to keep running in the population?

And the cancer causing stuff in the polio vaccine is nothing compared to the fact that the first vaccine actually caused polio.  Imagine being given a covid-19 vaccine and having a decent chance of getting covid-19.

The vaccine that caused polio wasn’t the first. It was just one manufacturer that failed to deactivate the virus correctly. This was before the federal government regulated vaccine production and this event was part of what caused it to happen.

[pogi]

15 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

 

1. Social motives: the need to feel good about oneself. This springs from low self-esteem. A huge boost to self-esteem is standing out from the crowd in some way (not being a 'sheep') or having access to special knowledge.

 

1 hour ago, mburgess1982 said:

I find it odd that so many aren't able to figure THIS out

Check✔️

Our first precedency and apostles can't figure it out, but mgbrgess1982 sure can! 

[webbles]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

Elder Bednar was, I think, "giving this virus the respect it has earned" while still expressing substantial concerns about governmental reactions to it.

If he can, then so can I.

It felt to me that you weren't "giving this virus the respect it has earned".  Some of the "facts" that you pasted tried to downplay the virus and make it seem like it wasn't actually causing a great many deaths (see the facts about comorbidities, covid death age vs life expectancy, overinflated numbers, etc).  Covid-19 is real and it is killing people and causing long-term harm to people.

I have major concerns about government reaction.  I, personally, wish that we would voluntarily do the lockdowns instead of requiring the government to do it.  Before lockdowns, etc started happening, I was already wearing masks, limiting my travels, etc.  If we, as a population, had done that voluntarily, then I don't see why the government would have needed to do mandatory lockdowns.

[mburgess1982]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

No, I want you to convince me that there is a secret combination of Satanic GMO's trying to get us all to wear masks.  I want to know what their motive is, and I want to know how a group of GMO's could control the reporting systems of local hospitals, local and world governments.  A good conspiracy theory at least attempts some explanations and evidence.  I need something here.  Apparently you suggest that their power is wielded through fear of their employees being fired.  Does that sound truly reasonable to you? 

I also want to know how our prophets could be so easily deceived by this Satanic GMO secret combination leading the world astray...  

You said that you would answer my questions if I answer yours (despite the fact that I asked mine first).  How do you expect us to take you seriously if you continue to dodge?  Those are some pretty hefty allegations that deserve some explanations.  If Covid deserves scrutiny, why don't your conspiracy theories deserve the same scrutiny? 

Money, control, power, are ALWAYS the motives. Masks were initially opposed by all of the authorities, and then almost overnight the WHO switched their stance and pushed them on the world. It was later confirmed by a UK reporter that they recommended them due to political lobbying. Nothing to do with health. If you follow the World Economic Forum on Twitter you will notice they often talk about the future of jobs in 2025 and everybody is wearing a mask. They also advertise the "mask of the future". Why would we need a mask of the future for a temporary pandemic. These groups obviously want people masked for the foreseeable future, possibly forever. If this was about health, ask yourself why?

And nobody is controlling local hospital reporting systems, not sure where you get that idea from. The message we get from the media regarding hospitals and everything we see and understand regarding this "Pandemic" is however VERY controlled 

But again I'm not here to convince you of anything. If you can't recognize the lies by now you probably never will. 

Have a good one

[mburgess1982]

19 minutes ago, webbles said:

You say that as if that is supposed to comfort me.  But that number terrifies me.  It is too low of a survival rate.

Covid-19 has an R value greater than 1, meaning it will spread to everyone if left unchecked.  Delta currently has an R value estimated at 5-9!  That means that 1 infected person will spread to 5-9 people.  We also know of re-infections so we aren't even sure if herd immunity is possible.  But let's give a liberal value and say that we can achieve herd immunity at 80%.

There are 7.8 billion people on the earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population).  Herd immunity will be achieved when 80% are infected, which is 6.24 billion people.  With a survival rate of 99.8%, that means that we'll have 12,480,000 deaths!

You really want to just let this disease run unchecked and kill over 12 million people?  And that doesn't take into the account that our hospital system is not meant to handle that many deaths and sick people.  Many of the 3rd world countries will have a lot more deaths because their hospital systems will be swamped and they'll have secondary deaths.

99.8% is not a great survival rate for a disease that will spread to everyone.

You are under the assumption that its not treatable and it just runs rampant and kills people. Not true, its very treatable. Too bad our media has been lying to us in regards to early treatment from the beginning so they could push the EUA for the vaccine

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

This is literally an imagined parade of horror. It's the end product of "We want to politicize mask wearing. Drink 12 Red Bulls and come up with something to own the libs. If it terrorizes elementary school teachers, more the better".

It is a bunch of people who are whiny brats about masks projecting their childishness onto actual children to hide from self-reflection.

It is a facile and obvious trick where you pretend your whining is a defense of someone else. Laman used it in the Book of Mormon:

“And thou art like unto our father, led away by the foolish imaginations of his heart; yea, he hath led us out of the land of Jerusalem, and we have wandered in the wilderness for these many years; and our women have toiled, being big with child; and they have borne children in the wilderness and suffered all things, save it were death; and it would have been better that they had died before they came out of Jerusalem than to have suffered these afflictions.”

[webbles]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The vaccine that caused polio wasn’t the first. It was just one manufacturer that failed to deactivate the virus correctly. This was before the federal government regulated vaccine production and this event was part of what caused it to happen.

This is a derail, but the first vaccine was developed by Dr. Kolmer in 1934 and it used a live denatured virus.  It caused at least 10 polio cases.  You are talking about the Salk vaccine which was created in 1952.

[The Nehor]

Just now, mburgess1982 said:

You are under the assumption that its not treatable and it just runs rampant and kills people. Not true, its very treatable. Too bad our media has been lying to us in regards to early treatment from the beginning so they could push the EUA for the vaccine

WRONG!

3 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Money, control, power, are ALWAYS the motives. Masks were initially opposed by all of the authorities, and then almost overnight the WHO switched their stance and pushed them on the world. It was later confirmed by a UK reporter that they recommended them due to political lobbying. Nothing to do with health. If you follow the World Economic Forum on Twitter you will notice they often talk about the future of jobs in 2025 and everybody is wearing a mask. They also advertise the "mask of the future". Why would we need a mask of the future for a temporary pandemic. These groups obviously want people masked for the foreseeable future, possibly forever. If this was about health, ask yourself why?

And nobody is controlling local hospital reporting systems, not sure where you get that idea from. The message we get from the media regarding hospitals and everything we see and understand regarding this "Pandemic" is however VERY controlled 

But again I'm not here to convince you of anything. If you can't recognize the lies by now you probably never will. 

Have a good one

Conspiracy nonsense. You are willing to nitpick about everything wrong with the response to the pandemic but ignore the gaping holes in your own vast declarations of conspiracies requiring the silent complicity of hundreds of thousands of people.

[pogi]

21 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I don't understand what you are saying here.  I can recognize the seriousness of Covid (which I do) and also have and express concerns about how we are responding to it, particularly as to governmental overreach and infringements onto individual liberty and autonomy.  I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I wouldn't have near as big a problem with your posts if it was limited to government overreach and infringements into individual liberty and autonomy.  Those are questions of liberty and government roles/powers, your questions are about the virus itself, hospitalizations, PCR tests, etc. 

23 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Elder Bednar was, I think, "giving this virus the respect it has earned" while still expressing substantial concerns about governmental reactions to it.

Elder Bednar never once questioned the efficacy of PCR tests, he never questioned positive rates, death rates, hospitalizations, he never questioned mask efficacy, he never questioned vaccines, he didn't give room for such destructive narratives in an effort to hedge up liberty. 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, webbles said:

This is a derail, but the first vaccine was developed by Dr. Kolmer in 1934 and it used a live denatured virus.  It caused at least 10 polio cases.  You are talking about the Salk vaccine which was created in 1952.

Ah, yes, I wasn’t thinking of the earlier forays as part of the vaccine program but you are correct.

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, smac97 said:

And the part where I spoke about "crowd sourcing" the vetting by having multiple people with differing perspectives, thought processes, etc. weigh in. 

That might be the outcome you desire and in most other scenarios that might be the whole of it. However, the enormous stinking volume of Covid misinfo being posted here is poisoning the bed where you plant these conjectures. Instead of further overtaxing the worn out people cleaning this up, you are being asked to vet (not just evaluate) info yourself; don't just dump another wall of unsubstantiated links on their heads.

[mburgess1982]

22 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They should consume horse dewormer instead?

Horse Dewormer? lol. You realize Ivermectin which won the Nobel prize in 2015 for HUMANS right?  Horse De-wormer was put in your brain by the MSM propaganda campaign. Stop watching the news

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

And the part where I spoke about "crowd sourcing" the vetting by having multiple people with differing perspectives, thought processes, etc. weigh in.  

As Joseph Smith put it: “By proving contraries, truth is made manifest.”

Thanks,

-Smac

It was the equivalent of trying to figure out the moon landing by posting random internet posts from a conspiracy website. It doesn’t help confirm the truth. It spreads the lies.

[mburgess1982]

14 minutes ago, Chum said:

This is false. Sick and dead people cause every level of damage to a business. Again, I mitigate this for a living. Please stop claiming false things.

Show me one business that closed due to the actual virus and NOT Government intervention forcing them to close due to lockdowns. 

 

[webbles]

4 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

You are under the assumption that its not treatable and it just runs rampant and kills people. Not true, its very treatable. Too bad our media has been lying to us in regards to early treatment from the beginning so they could push the EUA for the vaccine

Ok, so let's say the survival rate is even better than you said.  Let's say it is 99.9% survival.  They can treat all of those people.  You are still dealing with 6 million deaths!

And initially, we didn't know of any treatments for it.  Lots of studies were done, lots of theories were speculated, and lots of people tried lots of different things.  If any one of those things had been discovered to be a real treatment, do you think that the overworked hospitals, doctors, nurses, would just ignore it?  You really think the million or so doctors or nurses are part of a big conspiracy?  And what about the manufacture of these treatments?  Why wouldn't they want to make a ton of money selling it?

Also, your survival rate of 99.8% is actually incorrect.  It is lower than that.  I don't know where you got that number but the IFR is closer to 1% so the survival rate is only 99%.  Which means that 63 million will die.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Horse Dewormer? lol. You realize Ivermectin which won the Nobel prize in 2015 for HUMANS right?  Horse De-wormer was put in your brain by the MSM propaganda campaign. Stop watching the news

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

I haven’t watched “the news” in about a decade. I don’t have cable.

Ivermectin’s creator DID deservedly win a Nobel prize for coming out with an anti-parasitic that saved a lot of lives. There is the small problem in this situation that Covid is NOT a parasite and Ivermectin doesn’t prevent or mitigate Covid. Disinformation has led to people buying livestock grade Ivermectin and they are literally poisoning themselves with it.

If you broke your leg and I started extolling the virtues of chemotherapy as a miracle that has saved many people from dying of cancer and suggest that you should start treatment immediately to get the benefit of it you would look at me as if I were insane.

That is exactly how I am looking at you right now. Well, except add in some contempt because you are also actively working to get more people killed.

Edited September 27, 2021 by The Nehor

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

You are under the assumption that its not treatable and it just runs rampant and kills people.

He is under the fully correct assumption that vaccinations prevent most need for treatment. Presenting treatments in a way to lead people to consider them a viable alternative to vaccines -  this false misinfo might be a delusion the first time it's done. However, once it gets called out, it's a bald faced lie every time it's told.

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Show me one business that closed due to the actual virus and NOT Government intervention forcing them to close due to lockdowns. 

 

This is stupid and you know it. If enough of the owners and/or employees die the business has to shut down.

Yes, I have seen this happen with a local business. It is happening all over. The news is full of schools closing because teacher hospitalizations and fatalities make it impossible to continue operating.

This kind of idiotic reasoning and demand for a specific incident you expect no one to provide is pathetic and contemptible and reveals how weak your assertions are.

[mburgess1982]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

WRONG!

Conspiracy nonsense. You are willing to nitpick about everything wrong with the response to the pandemic but ignore the gaping holes in your own vast declarations of conspiracies requiring the silent complicity of hundreds of thousands of people.

Conspiracies only take a tiny handful of people to work. You don't need the silent complicity of hundreds of thousands of people, that would imply that hundreds of thousands of people know exactly what's going on, which they don't. Evil people have conspired together since the beginning of time you don't think its happening right now, right in front of us?

[mburgess1982]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This is stupid and you know it. If enough of the owners and/or employees die the business has to shut down.

Yes, I have seen this happen with a local business. It is happening all over. The news is full of schools closing because teacher hospitalizations and fatalities make it impossible to continue operating.

This kind of idiotic reasoning and demand for a specific incident you expect no one to provide is pathetic and contemptible and reveals how weak your assertions are.

The news is full of schools closing due to teachers being hospitalized and fatalities? Hadn't heard anything like that in 18 months, do you have a link?

[webbles]

15 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Horse Dewormer? lol. You realize Ivermectin which won the Nobel prize in 2015 for HUMANS right?  Horse De-wormer was put in your brain by the MSM propaganda campaign. Stop watching the news

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34466270/

I wonder why you think Ivermectin is better than the vaccine?  The vaccine has had a lot more studies done on it and has a lot more human trials.  Ivermectin has had very little studies done in regards to covid-19.  Sure, some of the studies look like it might be useful, but if you are deciding between ivermectin and the vaccine, I would go with the vaccine.  If I already had the vaccine and I was hoping for a little extra something, I might go with ivermectin, though I'm still waiting on a few more studies to be done to decide on whether it will be worth it.

[smac97]

Just now, pogi said:

I wouldn't have near as big a problem with your posts if it was limited to government overreach and infringements into individual liberty and autonomy.  Those are questions of liberty and government roles/powers, your questions are about the virus itself, hospitalizations, PCR tests, etc. 

Which in turn inform discussions about the justification of governmental overreach and infringements into individual liberty and autonomy.

Just now, pogi said:

Elder Bednar never once questioned the efficacy of PCR tests, he never questioned positive rates, death rates, hospitalizations, he never questioned mask efficacy, he never questioned vaccines, he didn't give room for such destructive narratives in an effort to hedge up liberty. 

The scope and contours of these individual issues deserve some real scrutiny and attention.  If prevailing government-endorsed narratives are substantively correct, then I want to know that.  If there are legitimate questions and concerns about the factual / empirical accuracy of such narratives, I want to know that too.  And if there are concerns about governmental overreach, I want to discuss those too.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

Just now, mburgess1982 said:

Conspiracies only take a tiny handful of people to work. You don't need the silent complicity of hundreds of thousands of people, that would imply that hundreds of thousands of people know exactly what's going on, which they don't. Evil people have conspired together since the beginning of time you don't think its happening right now, right in front of us?

It depends on the conspiracy. If it is a conspiracy to raid a government or corporate account to steal the money then yes, a small conspiracy does work.

This is not that kind of a situation. It is a vast pandemic that the whole world has their eyes on. It involves quiet international consensus to lie openly and repeatedly. It requires treatment options that would be known to thousands being suppressed. It would involve the manufacturer of your treatment to be complicit in hiding the health benefits of the treatment and costing themselves billions of dollars. It involves massive comprehensive coverups across literally hundreds of government agencies across the world.

It is not feasible. Such a conspiracy requires hundreds of thousands of people to have no feeling of duty towards the truth and even to circumvent their own baser instincts for greed and/or publicity.

I honestly see why you can believe such a conspiracy. I think you would be fooled by it. You are actively working against your own interests right now so it is probably not that foreign to you. While claiming loudly that we should stop virtually all mitigation measures against a pandemic your recommendations, if followed, would perpetuate the pandemic and increase the body count. Unless you run a funeral home or a crematorium I don’t see how this helps you but you are doing it anyway.

Long live the death cult! Glory to Grandfather Nurgle!