Ex-Mormons on Shrooms

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

You said, "it is the legal ones, alcohol and tobacco, that create the most addicts." I agree with you, I've probably picked up 40 or 50 guys that I've hired  from bus stops or their parents house because they've had their licenses revoked because of alcohol. They lose their license and have a terrible time trying to get it back. So they're stuck relying on public transportation or friends to move them around place to place which just makes them more depressed and in turn more likely to start drinking again. When I was young I didn't think alcoholism was a disease, I thought it was a matter of will and people were weak. Nope! It's a disease, some people cannot help themselves. 

     I think all drugs should be researched and if beneficial medically, used to there full potential. But, for the life of me I dont understand this trend of wanting to legalize pot. We have spent years and billions of dollars trying to convince kids that tobacco is bad for your health, which it is, but now people want to legalize another plant you inhale unfiltered and supposedly can reap all kinds of benefits, bullcrap.  Like I said, medically, perfectly fine with it.

      I have seen more felons have their probation revoked because their drug test comes back positive for cannabis then any other drug, legal or illegal. It's sad to watch really, totally tears families apart. I've made dozens of personal loans to employees knowing full well that I will never get paid back. They'll want $2 or $300 to pay a phone bill or electric bill. Now I take the time to call the company they owe money to and pay them directly, but 95% of the time I'll still never get paid back. Drugs if used in excess has the potential to tear a family apart trying to deal with the problems of the family drug user. 

      I'm all for legalizing as much as possible in America, but drugs I dont know. Legalizing drugs like pot and possibly heroin, which will be next after pot, has the potential to be just as damaging as alcohol. 

     I like the way you use cannabis. If its beneficial, that's the way it should be used.

 

Ps. But, then again, alot of things can be detrimental to individuals and families if someone goes totally overboard, including religion. 

Don't forget the opiod epidemic and its devastating impact!

[AtlanticMike]

45 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Don't forget the opiod epidemic and its devastating impact!

True that!

[Calm]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

but now people want to legalize another plant you inhale unfiltered and supposedly can reap all kinds of benefits, bullcrap

Unlike tobacco, you can use cannabis without inhaling. It is illegal to smoke it in Utah, though vaping is allowed. 

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Do you cuss when you can't focuss?

Actually, yes I have, sometimes!

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Unlike tobacco, you can use cannabis without inhaling. It is illegal to smoke it in Utah, though vaping is allowed. 

True. Like I said, I think medically it should definitely be in use. But on tv all you see is people smoking it and its considered cool and trendy. It's still smoke in your lungs, even though some studies say it's not as bad as tobacco when inhaled. I have a guy that works for me now who went to jail for possession and intent to distribute. He's been back once because of a parole violation. He cant get it through his head that if he doesn't stop smoking pot, he'll end back up in jail. To him, it's a life style, all his friends are doing it so he feels like he has to so he fits in. It's ridiculous. That's one of my biggest gripes about pot, people make it out to be cool. It's no different than tobacco advertisers in the 80s and 90s. 

     I'm tired of paying $1700 a month for health insurance because people cant learn how to treat their bodies correctly. Honestly, sugar is probably a bigger problem, x10 compared to pot.

 

[Stargazer]

8 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Honestly, sugar is probably a bigger problem, x10 compared to pot.

Some might consider this to be some kind of hyperbole, but carbohydrate addiction is mainly focused on sugar and it leads to obesity, and hence to all the health problems obesity causes. Marijuana doesn't cause anywhere near the problems that obesity causes. Except that obese drivers don't cause car accidents because of their obesity, whereas pot-stoned drivers are accidents waiting to happen.

[AtlanticMike]

52 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Some might consider this to be some kind of hyperbole, but carbohydrate addiction is mainly focused on sugar and it leads to obesity, and hence to all the health problems obesity causes. Marijuana doesn't cause anywhere near the problems that obesity causes. Except that obese drivers don't cause car accidents because of their obesity, whereas pot-stoned drivers are accidents waiting to happen.

Removing sugar from your diet can be life changing. Same for caffeine.

    If someone helpds a gun to my head and said I had to choose between adding sugar or pot to my daily intake, I would choose pot. That's how bad I think sugar is to our bodies.

Edited February 27, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Removing sugar from your diet can be life changing. Same for caffeine.

    If someone helpds a gun to my head and said I had to choose between adding sugar or pot to my daily intake, I would choose pot. That's how bad I think sugar is to our bodies.

The only way to remove all sugar from your diet is to stop eating fruits and vegetables and not include things like milk and honey in what you take in.

Sugar is not bad for your body.  It is when you start adding sugar to foods that it starts to be a problem.  

[AtlanticMike]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

The only way to remove all sugar from your diet is to stop eating fruits and vegetables and not include things like milk and honey in what you take in.

Sugar is not bad for your body.  It is when you start adding sugar to foods that it starts to be a problem.  

Sorry for not being more clear. I'm talking about nutty buddy bars, swiss cake rolls, cereals, including granola, muffins, cakes, milk, fruit drink boxes, orange juice, and so and so and so on. 1000s of unhealthy options. I eat fruit and a ton of vegetables, very little honey though. 

[Tacenda]

27 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Sorry for not being more clear. I'm talking about nutty buddy bars, swiss cake rolls, cereals, including granola, muffins, cakes, milk, fruit drink boxes, orange juice, and so and so and so on. 1000s of unhealthy options. I eat fruit and a ton of vegetables, very little honey though. 

Boring!

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

It’s obvious in this thread that none of you have any real experience with drugs and the drug culture. ..........................

Be careful what you assume.  Some people in this thread are experts in drug addiction and rehab (Kevin Christensen, for example).  I have extensive experience with drugs and drug abuse at the street level, and have busted quite a few people for possession.  In addition, my late wife lectured as a professional on drugs -- she was an Advanced Practice RN.  I still have one of her charts describing and illustrating the wide variety of drugs.

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Boring!

Haha, yes I understand my approach is boring to some and even possibly most people. But to me food is a necessity, I dont get any comfort from it mentally. I had to train my brain to realize food doesn't have to be comforting. 

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

You said, "it is the legal ones, alcohol and tobacco, that create the most addicts." I agree with you, I've probably picked up 40 or 50 guys that I've hired  from bus stops or their parents house because they've had their licenses revoked because of alcohol. They lose their license and have a terrible time trying to get it back. So they're stuck relying on public transportation or friends to move them around place to place which just makes them more depressed and in turn more likely to start drinking again. When I was young I didn't think alcoholism was a disease, I thought it was a matter of will and people were weak. Nope! It's a disease, some people cannot help themselves. 

     I think all drugs should be researched and if beneficial medically, used to there full potential. But, for the life of me I dont understand this trend of wanting to legalize pot. We have spent years and billions of dollars trying to convince kids that tobacco is bad for your health, which it is, but now people want to legalize another plant you inhale unfiltered and supposedly can reap all kinds of benefits, bullcrap.  Like I said, medically, perfectly fine with it.

      I have seen more felons have their probation revoked because their drug test comes back positive for cannabis then any other drug, legal or illegal. It's sad to watch really, totally tears families apart. I've made dozens of personal loans to employees knowing full well that I will never get paid back. They'll want $2 or $300 to pay a phone bill or electric bill. Now I take the time to call the company they owe money to and pay them directly, but 95% of the time I'll still never get paid back. Drugs if used in excess has the potential to tear a family apart trying to deal with the problems of the family drug user. 

      I'm all for legalizing as much as possible in America, but drugs I dont know. Legalizing drugs like pot and possibly heroin, which will be next after pot, has the potential to be just as damaging as alcohol. 

     I like the way you use cannabis. If its beneficial, that's the way it should be used.....................

We have had a "War on Drugs" now for over 50 years with no progress to show for it.   Same as for failed Prohibition of alcohol in the 20s and 30s.  In each case, all we have done is to create ever more powerful drug cartels and jailed drug users.  People want their recreational drugs, even if it is bad for them.  In the case of alcohol, we gave up on incarceration and switched to regulation and taxation.  Didn't solve the problem, but it brought it under control, and got taxes for public use (instead of enriching the cartels).  Same with tobacco.  We regulate and tax it.  Instead of billion dollar cartels, we could have well-funded rehab programs, but the politicians are afraid to do anything rational.

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

We have had a "War on Drugs" now for over 50 years with no progress to show for it.   Same as for failed Prohibition of alcohol in the 20s and 30s.  In each case, all we have done is to create ever more powerful drug cartels and jailed drug users.  People want their recreational drugs, even if it is bad for them.  In the case of alcohol, we gave up on incarceration and switched to regulation and taxation.  Didn't solve the problem, but it brought it under control, and got taxes for public use (instead of enriching the cartels).  Same with tobacco.  We regulate and tax it.  Instead of billion dollar cartels, we could have well-funded rehab programs, but the politicians are afraid to do anything rational.

I wonder sometimes how much we could have advanced medically if money had been put into studying addiction rather than criminalizing possession, etc.  If we could understand addiction and prevent it, while there would still be those who chose to live a life around drugs, at least it would be a choice and less of a need.  Not that lung cancer or cirrhosis of the liver has been solved, but if companies could actually think long term rather than immediate profits, if they could lessen health risks dramatically, their market would likely expand significantly...but that would take a generation or two and who is going to sacrifice their current wealth that way.... because after all, they would have to first admit their product is harmful.

[Meadowchik]

Someone I know and love has been dealing with anxiety for 25+ years, and (legal) cannabis has really helped. I am very happy he has found a healthy way to feel healthier. Doubtless, an improved well being enhances his spiritual life as well.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Meadowchik

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

Someone I know and love has been dealing with anxiety for 25+ years, and (legal) cannabis has really helped. I am very happy he has found a healthy way to feel healthier. Doubtles, an improved well being enhances his spiritual life as well.

Cannabinoids have been used experimentally at the UofU Medical Center on children with epilepsy for years.  It calms the brain.  Of course that doesn't involve kids smoking a joint or two.

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Cannabinoids have been used experimentally at the UofU Medical Center on children with epilepsy for years.  It calms the brain.  Of course that doesn't involve kids smoking a joint or two.

And it's making strides in reducing tumors as well. 

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And it's making strides in reducing tumors as well. 

Have they actually shown this for humans yet?  A quick look at the ACS has this:

Quote

More recently, scientists reported that THC and other cannabinoids such as CBD slow growth and/or cause death in certain types of cancer cells growing in lab dishes. Some animal studies also suggest certain cannabinoids may slow growth and reduce spread of some forms of cancer.

There have been some early clinical trials of cannabinoids in treating cancer in humans and more studies are planned. While the studies so far have shown that cannabinoids can be safe in treating cancer, they do not show that they help control or cure the disease.

https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/marijuana-and-cancer.html

[Robert F. Smith]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Have they actually shown this for humans yet?  A quick look at the ACS has this:

https://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatments-and-side-effects/complementary-and-alternative-medicine/marijuana-and-cancer.html

Some people claim that cannabis helps reduce the pain or discomfort of stomach cancer.

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Some people claim that cannabis helps reduce the pain or discomfort of stomach cancer.

It is the shrinking of tumors I am wondering about specifically, I know there is documented evidence for help in relieving cancer symptoms as well as helping endure treatments, but contributing to a cure or preventing recurrences would be great.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It is the shrinking of tumors I am wondering about specifically, I know there is documented evidence for help in relieving cancer symptoms as well as helping endure treatments, but contributing to a cure or preventing recurrences would be great.

I am on a private FB group called: Cannabis Oil Success Stories. If you join then you can read of those that say it reduced tumors.

This article shows that it worked to reduce tumors in mice: https://www.marijuanadoctors.com/conditions/brain-tumor/?fbclid=IwAR0pmwqVQeCDorNv_3sxi3kedAVg7vSurFLKpBF5h0pxWJibZFn0AQdoEXM

And here is a Netflix documentary: https://medicalcannabisnews.com/en/netflix-documentary-shows-how-cannabis-reduces-cancer-tumors/

Not sure if this is strong enough evidence to convince most but looks promising. But I believe this is so new, that testing needs to get the right recipes for treatment in case it could do the opposite of what is wanted. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Tacenda

[JustAnAustralian]

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

creating out of thin air motives

Except that smac's comment "I think Urquhart is attempting to replace Jesus Christ, as discerned and accepted through the Spirit, with magic mushrooms and dope." is quite similar to what their website actually says "Humans lack the vocabulary to describe the Divine. To understand the Divine, we need to experience the Divine through communion." (In their case their sacrament includes magic mushrooms). So instead of LDS teachings relating to the spirit, the Divine Assembly church, explicitly uses magic mushrooms for the same purpose.

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

One could similarly say that Mormonism is merely a pale imitation of Catholicism, people chafing at the demands of it and trying to replace their belief in a Christ of the Trinity with a false Christ of the Godhead, and that LDS folks are doomed to fail because of this sandy foundation.

And Jews would say similar things about Catholics. But that's not the point.

 

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

framing their choices in terms of how they have distanced from the church and then are necessarily doomed to fail.

This is specifically about Ex-Mormons. Ex-Mormons replacing some of what they experienced in the church with something else. Are you saying we're not allowed to discuss what Ex-Mormons do with their lives, and what we think about it?

[Meadowchik]

10 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Except that smac's comment "I think Urquhart is attempting to replace Jesus Christ, as discerned and accepted through the Spirit, with magic mushrooms and dope." is quite similar to what their website actually says "Humans lack the vocabulary to describe the Divine. To understand the Divine, we need to experience the Divine through communion." (In their case their sacrament includes magic mushrooms). So instead of LDS teachings relating to the spirit, the Divine Assembly church, explicitly uses magic mushrooms for the same purpose.

And Jews would say similar things about Catholics. But that's not the point.

 

This is specifically about Ex-Mormons. Ex-Mormons replacing some of what they experienced in the church with something else. Are you saying we're not allowed to discuss what Ex-Mormons do with their lives, and what we think about it?

I'm saying that his OP as written lacks charity. It centers his viewpoint where LDS beliefs are supreme rather than acknowledging that other reasonable, moral people make different decisions.  

It fails to acknowledge that, to some, *his* beliefs are seen as counterfeit and *his* approach to the Divine can be likened to Babel.

All that stands between one sincerely-held dogma and another is personal, unprovable belief.

This is a human tendency, to be expected, but while it is a constant effort to maintain common ground in things like law and reason, humility goes a long way too.

 

 

[JustAnAustralian]

52 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It centers his viewpoint where LDS beliefs are supreme

This forum is called MormonDialogue. I would expect that in general comparisons would come from a ProLDS perspective, just as I would expect respective leanings on a CatholicDialogue, JewishDialogue, or IslamicDialogue forum.

[Meadowchik]

22 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

This forum is called MormonDialogue. I would expect that in general comparisons would come from a ProLDS perspective, just as I would expect respective leanings on a CatholicDialogue, JewishDialogue, or IslamicDialogue forum.

It's not an exclusively pro-Mormon board, but more like dialogue pertaining to Mormonism. You can find out more about board guidelines in the stickied post.