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Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


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58 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

What do you make of this?

I highly question their methods and interpretation of results.

It is a contagious infectious disease, how could quarantines not have any effect on the spread of the disease?  Anyone who suggests that quarantining doesn't affect the spread of infectious disease needs to be seriously questioned. 

Once you factor in lag-time, I don't know how one can't correlate the lock down's with the first wave, and second wave clearly defined below.  What else could possibly explain the dip and spike?  Notice that testing is the only measure that has been fairly consistent and was not affected by the lockdowns.  How can they explain and reconcile a dramatic and steady increase in testing with the dip in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, that we saw - and subsequent spike after opening?

image.png.0d7d325ef3dd12adf6326da865a6f37c.png

 

Edited by pogi
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57 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I reject your CFR as putting words in my mouth and your assumption I meant country wide was never stated.  And since on this we agree...

These are your words.  Perhaps you can clarify.

I have been reading a lot of the data and reports and there is emerging two different sets of opinions and they are both supported by data. One opinion is, continue lockdowns and quarantines until we have a vaccine.

You stated that 2 dominant opinions exist.  1 of them is "continue lockdowns and quarantines until we have a vaccine".  That seems to be a misrepresentation of any dominant opinion to me.   Is that a dominant opinion?  Even on a local level?  I think you either need to clarify or provide a reference.  Who is saying that we should lockdown and quarantine "until we have a vaccine".  Can you name even one person, let alone a dominant opinion? 

You can see how this might  come off as a misleading smear attempt on those who back Fauci (the dominant opinion that seems to be in reference), even if it wasn't intended.  

 

Edited by pogi
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45 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That more urbanized areas have higher caseloads? Are we supposed to be surprised at that?

Using the same logic you can argue that Kansas obviously has better containment procedures because the first outbreaks were in coastal cities and near international airports.

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10 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

When is the $10 spit  test going to be available?

And how accurate is it? I know it was fast tracked and I have not been able to find independent test results.

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10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

While I like the JFK speech about going to the moon I found this quote about it amusing:

"Also, if you read his speech at Rice, all his arguments for going to the moon work equally well as arguments for blowing up the moon, sending cloned dinosaurs into space, or constructing a towering obviously phallic obelisk on Mars."

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That more urbanized areas have higher caseloads? Are we supposed to be surprised at that?

Using the same logic you can argue that Kansas obviously has better containment procedures because the first outbreaks were in coastal cities and near international airports.

Read the whole article? I heard him interviewed today. That’s not what he was arguing. But what do I know?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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Support for one of the hypotheses for how Covid works:

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

If it pans out this would be good news. It would probably mean that most (but not necessarily all) of the damage we have seen in corpses and those who recover will repair in time after recovery. It also can be used to help figure out better treatments. Vitamin D may be the most basic one to mitigate symptoms. It is unlikely to lead to a cure or a vaccine (we already have a pretty good idea how it attacks and what it is) but hopefully this will lower the mortality rate and decrease the suffering of those who get it.

There are also more reports of myocarditis in about a third of survivors which is why while I am hopeful but still worried about the long term impact.

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According to the team’s findings, a Covid-19 infection generally begins when the virus enters the body through ACE2 receptors in the nose, (The receptors, which the virus is known to target, are abundant there.) 

I wonder if nose plugs would make a difference. Especially with masks. We all become mouth breathers for awhile. 

Are people with constant stuffed noses due to allergies less likely to get it?  It would be nice if one issue of mine was actually beneficial.

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Because COVID has lots of social policy implications, I am posting this

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Lawsuit challenges Gov. Herbert's COVID-19 executive orders
By: Ben Winslow
Posted at 12:30 PM, Sep 04, 2020 and last updated 12:31 PM, Sep 04, 2020

PROVO, Utah — A lawsuit has been filed over Governor Gary Herbert's COVID-19 executive orders, challenging his authority and accusing him of violating their civil rights.

The lawsuit, filed late Thursday in Provo's 4th District Court, alleges the governor's orders during the pandemic of depriving the plaintiffs "of their right to be free from any governmental action that is in opposition to their educational desires for their children, particularly where parent’s in Utah have a constitutional entitlement to heightened protection against such interference."

The litigation by eight people across the state attacks the governor's orders, particularly those limiting social gatherings and imposing health restrictions on schools. They also named interim Utah Department of Health Director Rich Saunders in the lawsuit.

"Defendants have perpetrated a campaign of false information related to school age children and the respective risks that the Plaintiffs, their children, and the public system of education face during the unlawful state of emergency that was declared by Gov. Herbert through the exercise of powers prohibited to him," the plaintiff's attorney, J. Morgan Philpot, wrote. "The actions of the Defendants constitute a form of governmentally enforced mental, emotional, and social child abuse that is harming Plaintiffs, their children, and depriving the people of Utah of their rights to free and open schools."

The lawsuit cites the state and U.S. Constitution and Book of Mormon (a scripture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) as authority.

Oi.  I really don't care for using the civil courts for religious posturing.  The Book of Mormon has no business being cited as a legal authority in a secular court of law.  It makes me take the case less seriously.

Nevertheless, I have substantial concerns about the legality of the lockdowns.

The attorney who filed this suit is Jay Morgan Philpot.

Thanks,

-Smac

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5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Because COVID has lots of social policy implications, I am posting this

Oi.  I really don't care for using the civil courts for religious posturing.  The Book of Mormon has no business being cited as a legal authority in a secular court of law.  It makes me take the case less seriously.

Nevertheless, I have substantial concerns about the legality of the lockdowns.

The attorney who filed this suit is Jay Morgan Philpot.

Thanks,

-Smac

Very disappointed in these types of people. I want this virus over, and when I see people like them balk at prevention of it, that takes all our freedom away. :(

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11 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Oi.  I really don't care for using the civil courts for religious posturing.  The Book of Mormon has no business being cited as a legal authority in a secular court of law.  It makes me take the case less seriously.

Where do they find these people (and lawyers)?

13 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Nevertheless, I have substantial concerns about the legality of the lockdowns.

Did Gov Herbert lockdown any schools?  "Limiting social gatherings" and imposing "health restrictions" on schools is not the same as a lockdown.  In an outbreak situation, of course he has every legal authority to lockdown a school if he so chooses, however.  

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1 minute ago, pogi said:

Where do they find these people (and lawyers)?

Did Gov Herbert lockdown any schools?  "Limiting social gatherings" and imposing "health restrictions" on schools is not the same as a lockdown.  In an outbreak situation, of course he has every legal authority to lockdown a school if he so chooses, however.  

True! We were not closed as much as California and other places here in Utah.

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1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Nevertheless, I have substantial concerns about the legality of the lockdowns.

If you want to get into an extended discussion, please start a new thread. Just a post that includes quote of a criticism of medical info is barely relevant enough, but unless the discussion focuses on whether or not they are accurate in their medical claims, it is a political discussion imo...religious freedom is not a medical issue imo, though important to discuss. 

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The more people physically distance and wear the masks the more the infection rate goes down.

The health rules, regulations, and restrictions in no way, shape, or form restrict religious belief or faith.

No one has a political or religious right to act in such a way that increases a health danger to the public.

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Facebook series of posts on Covid by a epidemiologist who has a very accessible way of writing. She is moving her posts to a blog which will likely be easier to read, but for now they are located here:

https://m.facebook.com/friendlyneighborepidemiologist/
 

I have only read a couple, but so far seem both accurate and balanced. 

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From Everyday Health update:

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Health experts are warning against "coronasomnia." The Washington Post this week presented words of caution from physicians and researchers who say that heightened stress and upset routines caused by the pandemic are leading to sleep difficulties they have dubbed “coronasomnia.”

Also:

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Signs of depression have tripled. A study published this week in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed that the prevalence of sleep troubles, lethargy, feelings of hopelessness, and other depression symptoms in adults in the United States has more than tripled since the pandemic began.

 

Edited by Calm
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Interesting and tragic fact in view of other events happening:

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COVID-19 has killed more police officers than all other causes combined. Information compiled by the Officer Down Memorial Page (ODMP) and the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund indicated that more police officers have died this year from the coronavirus than from all other causes combined, according to the Washington Post. Chris Cosgriff, executive director of ODMP, said that corrections officers and corrections departments have been hit especially hard by the virus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/covid-19-has-killed-more-police-officers-this-year-than-all-other-causes-combined-statistics-show/

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As of Sept. 2, on-the-job coronavirus infections were responsible for more officer deaths than all other causes combined, including gun violence and car accidents, according to the Officer Down group, which received a grant from the U.S. Department of Justice for its work.

NLEOMF reported a nearly identical number of COVID-related law enforcement deaths. It also noted that fatalities due to non-COVID causes are actually down year-over-year, undermining President Donald Trump’s claims that “law enforcement has become the target of a dangerous assault by the radical left.”

Both organizations only count COVID deaths “if it is determined that the officer died as a result of exposure to the virus while performing official duties,” as the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund put it. “Substantive evidence will be required to show the death was more than likely due to the direct and proximate result of a duty-related incident.” 

In addition to the 100 confirmed coronavirus fatalities listed on the Officer Down website, the nonprofit said it’s in the process of verifying an additional 150 officer deaths due to COVID-19 and presumed to have been contracted in the line of duty, said Chris Cosgriff, executive director of ODMP, in an email.

The article goes on to say it is likely Covid will surpass 9/11 as the "largest incident cause".  Hopefully we will learn from this and develop better protections for first responders and those who are forced to interact with those who are or could be infectious.

Edited by Calm
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