Temples in the Middle East (Dubai) and China (Shanghai)

[smac97]

Wow!

I served my mission in Taiwan, so I have great affection and respect for the Chinese people.  I remember being amazed when I heard the announcement of the Hong Kong Temple.  Now this.

And a temple in the Middle East, too.  I am at a loss for words.

Pres. Nelson sure know how to wind up General Conference.

-Smac

Edited April 5, 2020 by smac97

[strappinglad]

Very interesting development . I did notice the considerable restrictions on the Shanghai building. 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Very interesting development . I did notice the considerable restrictions on the Shanghai building. 

It is a start.

[smac97]

1 minute ago, strappinglad said:

Very interesting development . I did notice the considerable restrictions on the Shanghai building. 

Yep.  I think those will relax in time. 

KSL is reporting:

Quote

Speaking at the Sunday afternoon session at the 190th Annual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, President Russell M. Nelson announced plans for eight more temples around the world — including one in Utah.

The 95-year-old church leader announced the church’s intention to build temples in the following locations:

• Bahia Blanca, Argentina
• Tallahassee, Florida
• Lubumbashi, Democratic Republic of the Congo
• Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
• Benin City, Nigeria
• Syracuse, Utah
• Dubai, United Arab Emirates
• Shanghai, People’s Republic of China

The Syracuse temple would be the 24th temple in Utah.

The temple in Shanghai will be the first in China, and will be in a multipurpose meeting place, President Nelson said. It comes after the church's temple in Hong Kong was closed for renovation. It will be available for Chinese members to participate in ordinances for themselves and their ancestors.

In accordance with the church's teachings to obey nations' laws, the church will still avoid sending proselyting missionaries to the People's Republic of China. Expatriate and Chinese congregations will continue to meet separately.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Duncan]

Elder Matthew Cowley prophesied in July 1949 that there would be a Temple in China and that day has arrived! I have his wife's autobiography that indicates such

[smac97]

Deseret News:

Quote

President Russell M. Nelson announced eight new temples, including historic ones in Shanghai and Dubai, during the final session of the 190th Annual General Conference on Sunday afternoon.

The eight temples are in Bahía Blanca, Argentina; Tallahassee, Florida; Lubumbashi, Democratic Republic of the Congo; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; Benin City, Nigeria; Syracuse, Utah; Dubai, United Arab Emirates; and Shanghai, People’s Republic of China.

“The plan for a temple in Dubai comes in response to their gracious invitation, which we gratefully acknowledge,” President Nelson said.

“Context for the plan for Shanghai is very important,” he said. “For more than two decades, temple-worthy members in the People’s Republic of China have attended the Hong Kong China Temple. But in July 2019, that temple was closed for long-planned and much-needed renovation.

“In Shanghai, a modest multipurpose meeting place will provide a way for Chinese members to continue to participate in ordinances of the temple — in the People’s Republic of China — for them and their ancestors.

“In every country, this church teaches its members to honor, obey and sustain the law. We teach the importance of the family, of being good parents and exemplary citizens. Because we respect the laws and regulations of the People’s Republic of China, the church does not send proselyting missionaries there; nor will we do so now.

“Expatriate and Chinese congregations will continue to meet separately. The church’s legal status there remains unchanged. In an initial phase of facility use, entry will be by appointment only. The Shanghai Temple will not be a temple for tourists from other countries.”

"A modest multipurpose meeting place."  This sounds like there will be a chapel used for weekly services, and that part of the facility will be dedicated as a temple.

Also, I wonder if the temple in Shanghai will be temporary.  It will be a building that will be dedicated for the duration of the renovation of the Hong Kong Temple, then decommissioned.

Thanks,

-Smac

[boblloyd91]

President Nelson said we were invited to Dubai. As interesting as a temple in Shanghai is, I myself am more curious about the backstory of what led to us being invited to a middle eastern country to build a temple

[Scott Lloyd]

28 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Deseret News:

"A modest multipurpose meeting place."  This sounds like there will be a chapel used for weekly services, and that part of the facility will be dedicated as a temple.

Also, I wonder if the temple in Shanghai will be temporary.  It will be a building that will be dedicated for the duration of the renovation of the Hong Kong Temple, then decommissioned.

Thanks,

-Smac

I think once there is a foothold there it would be foolish to abandon it. 

[Scott Lloyd]

I want to hear more about the temple in Dubai being put there “at their invitation.” How often does it happen that a national government invites the Church to come build a temple?

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Deseret News:

"A modest multipurpose meeting place."  This sounds like there will be a chapel used for weekly services, and that part of the facility will be dedicated as a temple.

Also, I wonder if the temple in Shanghai will be temporary.  It will be a building that will be dedicated for the duration of the renovation of the Hong Kong Temple, then decommissioned.

Thanks,

-Smac

I hope not and location might be an indicator. Shanghai is not close to Hong Kong. It is about 1,000 miles away if I remember right. Having two temples in the country would be much more convenient.

[Scott Lloyd]

Nice that the prophet did not have to remind a live congregation to refrain from hooting and hollering this time. 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I want to hear more about the temple in Dubai being put there “at their invitation.” How often does it happen that a national government invites the Church to come build a temple?

I pulled up the info on the church in the country. One stake with five wards and a branch.

Just over 1,600 members and I am guessing most of them are westerners.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Nice that the prophet did not have to remind a live congregation to refrain from hooting and hollering this time. 

I was waiting for it and then giggled when I realized there was no need.

[eddie]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I pulled up the info on the church in the country. One stake with five wards and a branch.

Just over 1,600 members and I am guessing most of them are westerners.

I was interviewing for a job (that thankfully I did not get) about 6 years ago.   I needed to practice using pivot tables on excel, so I decided to put all of the church's membership numbers from every state and country in several different excel sheets based on the no longer printed Church Almanac and the Church's website.

As late as 2013, the church did not list membership numbers in Dubai, much like they don't list them in Russia, China, or Belarus.  The change that occurred for them to do that was pretty rapid.   I update them every few years, and Kuwait's membership numbers are now listed as well. (And were not in 2013.)

[rongo]

I taught some amazing Pakistani graduate students in Germany (media referrals requesting Book of Mormons. Sorry, Scott --- I just don't wanna say "copies of the Book of Mormon."  It's the title of the Book --- like saying "I bought 18 Gone with the Winds"). Sharp, interested in religion, anxious to compare/contrast with Islam (I learned a lot about what the Koran says about Jesus and the patriarchs from them), and above all, interested and open to the message of the Restoration. They were ecstatic that we are not Trinitarian (a big hangup they have with orthodox Christianity). I thought then, and still think, that if we can somehow get past the radical Islam element in Pakistan (no small hurdle), Pakistan will be a fruitful field. 

Pakistan was not on the verboten list of countries to teach citizens of in the mid 90s (Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and Israel) but post 9-11, it might be (Afghanistan, too). While the UAE is not a bastion of orthodox Islam (it has a lot of international business interests, and thus has a lot of factors opposing radical Sunni or Shiite Islamic hatred of the West) maybe this will be a beachhead in getting our foot in the door.   

[Duncan]

42 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think once there is a foothold there it would be foolish to abandon it. 

That's what I was thinking as well, if you could secure that "deal" for lack of a better word, you'd hope to have it written in stone

[Duncan]

41 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I want to hear more about the temple in Dubai being put there “at their invitation.” How often does it happen that a national government invites the Church to come build a temple?

The Freiberg Germany Temple was that way. The Church had to guarantee Eastern Bloc countries' members would return from Bern? Temple and all this Visa gunk, so some official from East Germany said why not just build a Temple here, make it easier. They did just that and it was dedicated in 1985, 4 years before the wall fell, as we recall

[Hamba Tuhan]

A good mate of mine just returned to the UAE two Saturdays ago after securing a seat on a flight. He's a devout Muslim (so much so that he considers most of his family apostate) who came here to study and then hoped to stay. He first met our missionaries about four years ago, and then he met me. He has attended both church and Church activities with me, and for a while even took the sacrament. More than that, he has been a regular guest in my home for dinner and discussions, usually with missionaries but lately without. (We had just Sisters for about a year and then, of course, lost them too.) He has zero interest in our doctrines, from what I can tell, but he loves the Saints. He has repeatedly told me that we're the best people he has ever met anywhere. He sent me a message on the aeroplane apologising that his departure had been so sudden, thanking me for my friendship, and telling me that he would never forget my many kindnesses, which he never deserved.

I just sent him a message to let him know about the temple and to thank his leaders for the invitation. He was here supported by the UAE government and will be working for them now. I honestly don't know if he'll ever join the Church, but I know we have a good friend in the UAE, and I strongly suspect he is not alone.

19 minutes ago, rongo said:

I thought then, and still think, that if we can somehow get past the radical Islam element in Pakistan (no small hurdle), Pakistan will be a fruitful field. 

One of the translators of the Book of Mormon into Urdu lives in my ward, and I belong to a social media group for Saints in Pakistan. It is already a fruitful field and growing more fruitful all the time. Wisely, the Church doesn't report on the full extent of its presence in the nation, but we have many dozens of branches. When I was working in Indonesia, we actually had an American couple working for USAID on one of the islands who had joined in Pakistan!

[Judd]

I’m curious about the invitation from UAE that President Nelson was talking about. I’m also curious about some of the wording regarding the Shanghai temple. Though there are a handful of temples that are multi-purpose, it (to me) almost sounded like it was more of an endowment house. Also, when he said it wasn’t for international tourists, I assume that means for actual going in to the temple, but I’m curious if he means even that it may be considered “sensitive” in the same ways that some of their units there are, where its location may not even be known.

[rongo]

25 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

A good mate of mine just returned to the UAE two Saturdays ago after securing a seat on a flight. He's a devout Muslim (so much so that he considers most of his family apostate) who came here to study and then hoped to stay. He first met our missionaries about four years ago, and then he met me. He has attended both church and Church activities with me, and for a while even took the sacrament. More than that, he has been a regular guest in my home for dinner and discussions, usually with missionaries but lately without. (We had just Sisters for about a year and then, of course, lost them too.) He has zero interest in our doctrines, from what I can tell, but he loves the Saints. He has repeatedly told me that we're the best people he has ever met anywhere. He sent me a message on the aeroplane apologising that his departure had been so sudden, thanking me for my friendship, and telling me that he would never forget my many kindnesses, which he never deserved.

The Pakistani students I taught wanted to discuss doctrine, and I was impressed by their questions and interest. I remember one who showed us where the Koran refers to Jesus, and I remember saying, "Wait, he rose from the dead and was born of a virgin? How is he just one of many prophets, then? That sounds really unique." He calmly explained that Jesus is nowhere as important as Muhammed (Blessed be his name!), but yes, Jesus was involved with some unique miracles. 

Like your friend, interested devout Muslims who know really like the Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity. And, like I said, non-trinitarian Christians! Books from angels is also not a foreign concept to them . . . 

I got a call from a Turkish businessman in Braunschweig who was confirming meeting times. He was baptized in Germany while on business, and paid tithing when he was in town every year. He had never told his wife, but he had been attending church and paying tithing for a couple of years by then. 

I just sent him a message to let him know about the temple and to thank his leaders for the invitation. He was here supported by the UAE government and will be working for them now. I honestly don't know if he'll ever join the Church, but I know we have a good friend in the UAE, and I strongly suspect he is not alone.

One of the translators of the Book of Mormon into Urdu lives in my ward, and I belong to a social media group for Saints in Pakistan. It is already a fruitful field and growing more fruitful all the time. Wisely, the Church doesn't report on the full extent of its presence in the nation, but we have many dozens of branches. When I was working in Indonesia, we actually had an American couple working for USAID on one of the islands who had joined in Pakistan!

That's great to know! It would be a fruitful field, based on my interactions with Pakistanis, but yeah, I wouldn't have missionaries openly proselyting there. 

[2BizE]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

Elder Matthew Cowley prophesied in July 1949 that there would be a Temple in China and that day has arrived! I have his wife's autobiography that indicates such

I thought Hong King was in China.

[Okrahomer]

6 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I thought Hong King was in China.

Not in 1949.  Hong Kong was a colony and dependent Territory of the United Kingdom from 1841 to 1997.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Hong_Kong

[Duncan]

6 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I thought Hong King was in China.

it is, but who's to say  what Temple he had in mind, maybe both? or more?

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 minutes ago, rongo said:

The Pakistani students I taught wanted to discuss doctrine, and I was impressed by their questions and interest.

Oh yeah, my mate loves to talk doctrine. He just doesn't believe any of it. Yet.

Having lived in a predominantly Muslim nation, I can assure you that there is no end of common ground to build on. Adam as the first prophet. Jesus as premortal. The Second Coming. The purposes of fasting. A literal, physical resurrection. Eternal family units. And so on. You should watch the Haj some year:

Quote

It would be a fruitful field, based on my interactions with Pakistanis, but yeah, I wouldn't have missionaries openly proselyting there. 

You might enjoy this image:

Edited April 6, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 minutes ago, Judd said:

I’m also curious about some of the wording regarding the Shanghai temple. Though there are a handful of temples that are multi-purpose, it (to me) almost sounded like it was more of an endowment house.

One of my work colleagues has parents from Shanghai, and she often visits family there. She said the congregations already meet in a multipurpose building. We're wondering if it might just go in there.