General Conference Commemorating First Vision Bicentennial

[Scott Lloyd]

So general conference will convene in a few weeks, and I’m looking forward to what will transpire in commemoration of the First Vision to the Prophet Joseph Smith. 
 

My wife said she heard one of the BYU Education Week speakers — I think it was one of the Twelve — say that there will be a live remote of President Russell M. Nelson speaking to the conference from the Sacred Grove. This, of course, would be reminiscent of what happened in April 1980, when we observed the sesquicentennial of the Church and President Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the conference in a live remote from the Peter Whitmer farmhouse in Fayette, New York. That is still fresh in my mind, though it occurred 40 years ago now. 

Has anyone here heard of anything else that will be happening at this conference?

I hope and expect that two of my very favorite hymns will be sung or performed: “Oh How Lovely Was the Morning” and, of course, “Praise to the Man.”

Edited March 9, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Duncan]

I've heard that hotels in key restoration sites are booked up, so that could be by Church leaders/personnel or by members thinking something is going to happen there

[pogi]

If they are all speaking live remote, I guess it won’t be such a big deal if they close the conference center to the public over covid concerns.

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

If they are all speaking live remote, I guess it won’t be such a big deal if they close the conference center to the public over covid concerns.

I don’t think anybody has said they would all be speaking by remote transmission. That wasn’t the case in 1980. The event originated from the Salt Lake Tabernacle with remote hookup from Fayette. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So general conference will take up in a couple of weeks, and I’m looking forward to what will transpire in commemoration of the First Vision to the Prophet Joseph Smith. 
 

My wife said she heard one of the BYU Education Week speakers — I think it was one of the Twelve — say that there will be a live remote of President Russell M. Nelson speaking to the conference from the Sacred Grove. This, of course, would be reminiscent of what happened in April 1980, when we observed the sesquicentennial of the Church and President Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the conference in a live remote from the Peter Whitmer farmhouse in Fayette, New York. That is still fresh in my mind, though it occurred 40 years ago now. 

Has anyone here heard of anything else that will be happening at this conference?

I hope and expect that two of my very favorite hymns will be sung or performed: “Oh How Lovely Was the Morning” and, of course, “Praise to the Man.”

Sounds great.  I'll be watching safely at home.  People with strong immune systems can probably weather a bout with COVID-19, but the babies and oldsters among us are best left isolated and unexposed.  That means that family members with babies should not be at the Conference Center at all, and the truly old folks should just stay home like me -- or out in the Sacred Grove.

[sunstoned]

I did hear somewhere that the church is discouraging foreign travel to  the U.S. for conference.  

[Scott Lloyd]

25 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

I did hear somewhere that the church is discouraging foreign travel to  the U.S. for conference.  

Yes, that has been in the news. 

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sounds great.  I'll be watching safely at home.  People with strong immune systems can probably weather a bout with COVID-19, but the babies and oldsters among us are best left isolated and unexposed.  That means that family members with babies should not be at the Conference Center at all, and the truly old folks should just stay home like me -- or out in the Sacred Grove.

I don’t know whether I would be classed as “truly old,” and call me foolhardy if you like. But our bishopric announced today that there are tickets available through our stake by request for the conference. Our youngest son, 17, sensing the historic import of this conference, indicated he’d like to be there. So we have requested tickets for our family. 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

Danger is mostly for 75 and older, I believe.

[Boanerges]

I live fairly close to the cradle of the restoration (neighboring stake). Admittedly things like this are generally kept hush hush so crowds don't gather where there is not a capacity to deal with them. If there is a plan for a remote transmission we are unaware of it, and tickets to General Conference at the Conference Center were offered here as well. As Scott pointed out, in 1980 not everyone was at the Whitmer Farm and only one session had a broadcast from there (the remainder of the speakers as I recall were in the Tabernacle). As I recall Pres. Kimball spoke on Saturday in Salt Lake and flew to NY for Sunday morning. 

As to the hotel thing, it's a vicious rumor. Palmyra is a small town and does not have many offerings for lodging itself (but there are a few). There are rooms available in Palmyra (it's easy to check that on the internet) and there are many available in the nearby city of Rochester where there is a much larger abundance and more higher rated accommodations. Rooms available in Palmyra include the Best Western just down the road from the temple, stake center, and historic sites.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Boanerges said:

I live fairly close to the cradle of the restoration (neighboring stake). Admittedly things like this are generally kept hush hush so crowds don't gather where there is not a capacity to deal with them. If there is a plan for a remote transmission we are unaware of it, and tickets to General Conference at the Conference Center were offered here as well. As Scott pointed out, in 1980 not everyone was at the Whitmer Farm and only one session had a broadcast from there (the remainder of the speakers as I recall were in the Tabernacle). As I recall Pres. Kimball spoke on Saturday in Salt Lake and flew to NY for Sunday morning. 

As to the hotel thing, it's a vicious rumor. Palmyra is a small town and does not have many offerings for lodging itself (but there are a few). There are rooms available in Palmyra (it's easy to check that on the internet) and there are many available in the nearby city of Rochester where there is a much larger abundance and more higher rated accommodations. Rooms available in Palmyra include the Best Western just down the road from the temple, stake center, and historic sites.

Thanks for this information. 

If there is to be a remote transmission from the Sacred Grove, I wouldn’t think there would be a congregation as such on the premises — just a technical crew and whichever Church leaders are involved. And perhaps a very limited news media contingent. 
 

When they held the groundbreaking 11 years ago for our temple (Draper Utah), they did not invite all comers to be on site, just a limited number of dignitaries. Everyone else in attendance viewed it by television feed in nearby stake centers. This was for logistical reasons, I’m sure. 

Other than a portion of a general conference session carried from Palmyra, I can’t think what would be going on there that would draw an influx of visitors on that particular day. Although, who knows? 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[hope_for_things]

10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So general conference will convene in a couple of weeks, and I’m looking forward to what will transpire in commemoration of the First Vision to the Prophet Joseph Smith. 
 

My wife said she heard one of the BYU Education Week speakers — I think it was one of the Twelve — say that there will be a live remote of President Russell M. Nelson speaking to the conference from the Sacred Grove. This, of course, would be reminiscent of what happened in April 1980, when we observed the sesquicentennial of the Church and President Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the conference in a live remote from the Peter Whitmer farmhouse in Fayette, New York. That is still fresh in my mind, though it occurred 40 years ago now. 

Has anyone here heard of anything else that will be happening at this conference?

I hope and expect that two of my very favorite hymns will be sung or performed: “Oh How Lovely Was the Morning” and, of course, “Praise to the Man.”

Interesting, I didn't know about the 1980 event, I was a little too young to remember something like that.  

I think it would be cool to have Nelson broadcast from there.  I wonder if the church is concerned about the images of the grove at this time of the year when I suspect the foliage of the trees might not be completely green and beautiful at this time.  I'm not sure, maybe it will be.  I just wonder, as it seems like the church typically wants to portray a particular image whenever they show pictures of the grove.  Will be interesting to see...

[Boanerges]

3 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Interesting, I didn't know about the 1980 event, I was a little too young to remember something like that.  

I think it would be cool to have Nelson broadcast from there.  I wonder if the church is concerned about the images of the grove at this time of the year when I suspect the foliage of the trees might not be completely green and beautiful at this time.  I'm not sure, maybe it will be.  I just wonder, as it seems like the church typically wants to portray a particular image whenever they show pictures of the grove.  Will be interesting to see...

The trees will not be anywhere near green by then, the grass likely will be because we're having a fairly nice stretch of weather.  But there's not really grass in the grove.... There is grass around the Smith farm buildings, and there will be flowers at the temple (probably daffodils, hyacinths, maybe crocuses or tulips) because the gardeners will plant them. There could be similar flowers planted at the Smith farm.

[hope_for_things]

29 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

The trees will not be anywhere near green by then, the grass likely will be because we're having a fairly nice stretch of weather.  But there's not really grass in the grove.... There is grass around the Smith farm buildings, and there will be flowers at the temple (probably daffodils, hyacinths, maybe crocuses or tulips) because the gardeners will plant them. There could be similar flowers planted at the Smith farm.

Thanks for sharing.  I've still yet to go back there and visit.  I hope they don't plant flowers in the grove itself, I think it would be better to have it as natural as possible.  It seems like I've read somewhere that there weren't many actual trees at the site where historians think the sacred grove would most likely have been.  I may be remembering incorrectly though...

Edited March 9, 2020 by hope_for_things

[Scott Lloyd]

46 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Interesting, I didn't know about the 1980 event, I was a little too young to remember something like that.  

I think it would be cool to have Nelson broadcast from there.  I wonder if the church is concerned about the images of the grove at this time of the year when I suspect the foliage of the trees might not be completely green and beautiful at this time.  I'm not sure, maybe it will be.  I just wonder, as it seems like the church typically wants to portray a particular image whenever they show pictures of the grove.  Will be interesting to see...

Whatever will be the appearance of the grove at that time, one can assume it will look much as it did on the occasion of the First Vision, as Joseph said his experience occurred in the morning, “early in the spring” of 1820. The conference will, in fact, be early in the spring — about two weeks after the vernal equinox. And I’m guessing the broadcast will occur during a morning session of conference. 

[hope_for_things]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Whatever will be the appearance of the grove at that time, one can assume it will look much as it did on the occasion of the First Vision, as Joseph said his experience occurred in the morning, “early in the spring” of 1820. The conference will, in fact, be early in the spring — about two weeks after the vernal equinox. And I’m guessing the broadcast will occur during a morning session of conference. 

I too would like to see how it looks at this time of year.  I just wonder how realistic it will be to how things really might have looked for a young Joseph.  The church seems to be quite image conscious and I expect they will try to portray an idyllic scene for the audience, rather than a true to reality kind of scene.  

[Boanerges]

25 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Thanks for sharing.  I've still yet to go back there and visit.  I hope they don't plant flowers in the grove itself, I think it would be better to have it as natural as possible.  It seems like I've read somewhere that there weren't many actual trees at the site where historians think the sacred grove would most likely have been.  I may be remembering incorrectly though...

Flowers won't grow in the grove proper, it is a shaded forest. The church does try to make the area look as much as possible like it did when the Smiths lived there. 

And like almost all of upstate NY (and Pennsylvania and New England) the trees that are in the grove now are "new growth" after deforestation. There are few "old growth" forests left in the northeast. None of the trees currently in the vicinity of the Smith farm were there when the Smiths lived there. And we don't really know for sure that what we call the grove was the actual place Joseph went to pray, but based on proximity and descriptions given at the time it's likely in that immediate area. It is also possible it was in the other direction closer to where the temple is now located. In this case the location is not nearly as important as the event.

[hope_for_things]

6 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

Flowers won't grow in the grove proper, it is a shaded forest. The church does try to make the area look as much as possible like it did when the Smiths lived there. 

And like almost all of upstate NY (and Pennsylvania and New England) the trees that are in the grove now are "new growth" after deforestation. There are few "old growth" forests left in the northeast. None of the trees currently in the vicinity of the Smith farm were there when the Smiths lived there. And we don't really know for sure that what we call the grove was the actual place Joseph went to pray, but based on proximity and descriptions given at the time it's likely in that immediate area. It is also possible it was in the other direction closer to where the temple is now located. In this case the location is not nearly as important as the event.

I just found this in the EoM, seems to contradict what you're saying about old growth trees.  I can't remember where I read that I heard there weren't many trees around where some historians think the sacred grove was most likely to be.  It might be a mistaken memory on my part though.  

https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Sacred_Grove

Quote

A grove of trees on the Joseph Smith, Sr., farm near Palmyra, New York, is revered by Latter-day Saints as the vicinity where Joseph Smith experienced his first vision, the divine manifestation of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ that began the restoration of the gospel in this dispensation. For that reason, Latter-day Saints honor the place as sacred. The grove is part of the forest that once covered the Smiths' 100-acre farm in Manchester Township as well as much of western New York.

The forest was some 400 years old when the family of Joseph Smith, Sr., moved to the site in 1818 or 1819. The large trees of the forest-maple, beech, elm, oak, and hickory-reached heights of up to 125 feet and diameters of 6 feet or more. Beneath this natural canopy grew hop hornbeam, wild cherry, and ash. The woodland floor was carpeted with leaves, ferns, grasses, wildflowers, and clumps of chokecherry and dogwood.

The Smiths cleared the trees from sixty acres of their property. The Sacred Grove was part of a fifteen-acre wooded tract at the farm's west end, reserved as a sugarbush, where trees were tapped for making maple syrup and sugar.

Subsequent owners of the farm maintained the grove, associating it with Joseph Smith's vision, although the exact location of the vision is unknown. In 1907 the Church purchased the farm and grove from William A. Chapman, and these sites formed the nucleus of the Church historical sites program, which at present includes properties from Vermont to Utah.

Through an ongoing professional maintenance program, the Church has retained much of the primeval beauty of the Sacred Grove. Trees that were mature at the time of Joseph Smith's boyhood still grace this forest. People from many lands visit the Sacred Grove each year. In 1989 the number of visitors exceeded 36,000.

 

[Boanerges]

21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Whatever will be the appearance of the grove at that time, one can assume it will look much as it did on the occasion of the First Vision, as Joseph said his experience occurred in the morning, “early in the spring” of 1820. The conference will, in fact, be early in the spring — about two weeks after the vernal equinox. And I’m guessing the broadcast will occur during a morning session of conference. 

I would agree if Joseph's concept of what constituted early spring is late March/early April. I have a pet peeve about how the vision is depicted in many videos and pictures or artwork where the trees are covered in leaves as if it were mid summer. If it were indeed early in the spring it was probably a bit chilly, likely even frosty, and leaves would be just budding or starting to emerge on most trees. And it would likely have been muddy with the possibility of some patches of snow extant in the deeper shady woodland. 

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

Flowers won't grow in the grove proper, it is a shaded forest. The church does try to make the area look as much as possible like it did when the Smiths lived there. 

And like almost all of upstate NY (and Pennsylvania and New England) the trees that are in the grove now are "new growth" after deforestation. There are few "old growth" forests left in the northeast. None of the trees currently in the vicinity of the Smith farm were there when the Smiths lived there. And we don't really know for sure that what we call the grove was the actual place Joseph went to pray, but based on proximity and descriptions given at the time it's likely in that immediate area. It is also possible it was in the other direction closer to where the temple is now located. In this case the location is not nearly as important as the event.

Prior to the development and dedication of the Priesthood Restoration Site in Harmony, Pa., a few years ago, a closer examination of the history by Church historians revealed that the visit by John the Baptist to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery did not occur on the banks of the Susquehanna River as had been incorrectly assumed for many years. Rather, it likely occurred in the sugar maple grove near the house where Joseph and Emma were living and the Book of Mormon translation was occurring. Joseph and Oliver would have gone down to the river later in the day and baptized each other in accordance with the angel’s direction. 
 

So at the site today (and yes, I’ve been there) there is a grove adjacent to the visitor center, interpreted as the grove where the priesthood restoration occurred. To view the probable location of the baptisms, you have to get in your car and drive a short distance down the highway to the river. 

I’m hoping that in Palmyra, our historians have done a good job of pinpointing the location of the Sacred Grove, though as you say, the event is more important than the location. 
 

I do recall our science (who was later my seminary) teacher telling us in junior high school that the grove had since been cleared off and farmed and that the native vegetation had subsequently reclaimed the land. That is consistent with what you’ve told us here. 

[ksfisher]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Danger is mostly for 75 and older, I believe.

This is what I remember reading also.  It's not hitting children like the flu does.

Edited March 9, 2020 by ksfisher

[ksfisher]

17 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

I would agree if Joseph's concept of what constituted early spring is late March/early April. I have a pet peeve about how the vision is depicted in many videos and pictures or artwork where the trees are covered in leaves as if it were mid summer. If it were indeed early in the spring it was probably a bit chilly, likely even frosty, and leaves would be just budding or starting to emerge on most trees. And it would likely have been muddy with the possibility of some patches of snow extant in the deeper shady woodland. 

There is a new painting of the First Vision that will be unveiled at the Smith Family Farm soon that has patches of snow on the ground.

Edited March 9, 2020 by ksfisher

[hope_for_things]

35 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

Flowers won't grow in the grove proper, it is a shaded forest. The church does try to make the area look as much as possible like it did when the Smiths lived there. 

And like almost all of upstate NY (and Pennsylvania and New England) the trees that are in the grove now are "new growth" after deforestation. There are few "old growth" forests left in the northeast. None of the trees currently in the vicinity of the Smith farm were there when the Smiths lived there. And we don't really know for sure that what we call the grove was the actual place Joseph went to pray, but based on proximity and descriptions given at the time it's likely in that immediate area. It is also possible it was in the other direction closer to where the temple is now located. In this case the location is not nearly as important as the event.

I just ran across these blog posts which I found extremely interesting.  I had no idea that the phrase Sacred Grove was such a new phrase, this author places its origins in a 1907 statement.  I found many points in this series new to me and I think anyone interested in learning more about the history here would find these interesting.  

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/holyscapes/2016/04/making-the-mormon-sacred-grove-part-1/

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/holyscapes/2016/04/making-the-mormon-sacred-grove-part-2/

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/holyscapes/2016/04/making-the-mormon-sacred-grove-part-3/

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/holyscapes/2016/04/making-the-mormon-sacred-grove-part-4/

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Boanerges said:

Flowers won't grow in the grove proper, it is a shaded forest. The church does try to make the area look as much as possible like it did when the Smiths lived there. 

And like almost all of upstate NY (and Pennsylvania and New England) the trees that are in the grove now are "new growth" after deforestation. There are few "old growth" forests left in the northeast. None of the trees currently in the vicinity of the Smith farm were there when the Smiths lived there. And we don't really know for sure that what we call the grove was the actual place Joseph went to pray, but based on proximity and descriptions given at the time it's likely in that immediate area. It is also possible it was in the other direction closer to where the temple is now located. In this case the location is not nearly as important as the event.

I'm okay with the location of the First Vision not being known with precision.  Christmas isn't on the date of Christ's birth.  The Garden Tomb is iffy.  The specific date of the First Vision is uknown.  

I visited the Sacred Grove after I graduated from high school in 1991.  I took a leaf from one of the trees, and placed it between two pieces of clear packing tape.  Thereafter, I kept the leaf in my wallet while I served in the military, served a mission, enrolled in college, got married, and became a father.  One day my oldest son, then a toddler, got into my wallet and pulled everything out.  I could not locate the leaf.

Ah, well.  It was the sentiment and symbolism that mattered to me.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited March 9, 2020 by smac97

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So general conference will convene in a couple of weeks, and I’m looking forward to what will transpire in commemoration of the First Vision to the Prophet Joseph Smith. 
 

My wife said she heard one of the BYU Education Week speakers — I think it was one of the Twelve — say that there will be a live remote of President Russell M. Nelson speaking to the conference from the Sacred Grove. This, of course, would be reminiscent of what happened in April 1980, when we observed the sesquicentennial of the Church and President Spencer W. Kimball spoke to the conference in a live remote from the Peter Whitmer farmhouse in Fayette, New York. That is still fresh in my mind, though it occurred 40 years ago now. 

Has anyone here heard of anything else that will be happening at this conference?

I hope and expect that two of my very favorite hymns will be sung or performed: “Oh How Lovely Was the Morning” and, of course, “Praise to the Man.”

Interesting, I didn't know about the 1980 event, I was a little too young to remember something like that.  

I think it would be cool to have Nelson broadcast from there.  I wonder if the church is concerned about the images of the grove at this time of the year when I suspect the foliage of the trees might not be completely green and beautiful at this time.  I'm not sure, maybe it will be.  I just wonder, as it seems like the church typically wants to portray a particular image whenever they show pictures of the grove.  Will be interesting to see...

I remember President Kimball having some trouble saying the word Sesquicentennial. 🙂