Yet Another Lawsuit Against the Church

[rockpond]

33 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I guess maybe it varies by region, but here in Texas I've only known a handful of circumstances where the person asking for assistance was a member. The overwhelming majority of cases I have seen have involved non members. 

 

Yep... That was my one and only experience while covering for my bishop during the 6 months he had the rotating assignment.  The call for help was all that was needed.  While he stated that he was a member (and I had no reason to doubt) we did not attempt to verify that -- just offered assistance.

[rockpond]

8 minutes ago, hearserve said:

In our area, we have multiple bishops assigned as transient bishops, with a former bishop who screens incoming calls and requests, and forwards the calls to one of the bishops on call.  The bishop assigned from our stake told me he would get a dozen or more calls a night that he had to handle.  This on top of his own ward responsibilities.  The assigned bishops rotated their schedules, something like two weeks on, one week off.  He told me before his last rotation he had a full blown anxiety attack due to the stress of handling so many needs.  A large percentage of calls was from non- members.

Wow... that would be stressful.

Our area has a google voice number and they just rotate who it is forwarded to... I covered for a week for my bishop and only got one call during that time.

[stemelbow]

I wonder if people will just continue to file lawsuits against the Church until something sticks?  It'll be a pretty clear indication some members are fed up with the money-centered Church though.  I mean that's already true, perhaps that'll become more and more true.  I guess we'll see.  From the little blurb about it, this particular lawsuit seems a little nutty.  The scriptures should have no part in it, I would think.

[Calm]

15 hours ago, provoman said:

 

Another tid bit, they attempted to get a settlement before filing the case.

 

Sounds like Nemelka was hoping for some money and now maybe some free advertising.  With Ida Smith (his most visible member and apparently someone who donated significantly) gone, got to wonder if he is attracting any new recruits these days.

[smac97]

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I wonder if people will just continue to file lawsuits against the Church until something sticks? 

Well, deep pockets will always attract frivolous lawsuits.  That's life these days.

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

It'll be a pretty clear indication some members are fed up with the money-centered Church though. 

Two lawsuits in a 16-million member church is not indicative of anything.

And the Church isn't "money-centered."  That's an absurd characterization.

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I mean that's already true, perhaps that'll become more and more true.  I guess we'll see.  From the little blurb about it, this particular lawsuit seems a little nutty.  The scriptures should have no part in it, I would think.

Internal religious disputes over doctrine have no business being submitted to civil courts.  The civil courts have said as much.  Many times.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

15 hours ago, provoman said:

Another tid bit, they attempted to get a settlement before filing the case.

How do we know that?  Is that in the complaint?

Thanks,

-Smac

[provoman]

29 minutes ago, topcougar said:

A further update. The plaintiffs are all followers of Chris Nemelka. https://www.cityweekly.net/utah/sealed-fate/Content?oid=2152358&storyPage=3 

how did you establish the connection? Are the plaintiffs mentioned in the article?

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, provoman said:

how did you establish the connection? Are the plaintiffs mentioned in the article?

I saw Taggert mentioned  and Vessels was in the comments saying he had represented Nemelka, though now retired.

I didn't look for Cook.

Lynette Cook is mentioned in this appeal by Nemelka to remove a judge (didn't work):

https://christophernemelka.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/MotRecuse.pdf

Edited February 18, 2020 by Calm

[provoman]

18 minutes ago, smac97 said:

How do we know that?  Is that in the complaint?

Thanks,

-Smac

page 4 - 5 of the complaint, lines 32 - 35

 

32. On Januaty 20, 2020, Plaintiffs offered to settle this matter with the Church, so that the Church could avoid this lawsuit and any subsequent publicity. A draft complaint was provided to the Church, together with Plaintiffs' discovery of the Church's $100 billion fund that hoards Church members' tithing and offerings.
33. On January 30, 2020, Plaintiffs submitted to the Church a redrafted complaint, giving the Church until the end of the day Monday, February 3, 2020 to respond.
34. Soon after submitting our redrafted complaint, Plaintiffs received a letter from David J. Jordan of Stoel Rives LLP, attorneys for the Church, alleging that Plaintiffs' claims "are not cognizable under the Constitution of the United States" and that they "would be subject to dismissal." There was no offer to meet with Plaintiffs; rather, Plaintiffs were told that their claims "are squarely barred by the Constitution and, if filed, would be in violation of Rule II."

Edited February 18, 2020 by provoman

[topcougar]

The name plaintiff shares an address with Christopher Mark Nemelka. 

[smac97]

33 minutes ago, provoman said:

Quote

A further update. The plaintiffs are all followers of Chris Nemelka. https://www.cityweekly.net/utah/sealed-fate/Content?oid=2152358&storyPage=3 

how did you establish the connection? Are the plaintiffs mentioned in the article?

The article mentions "Taggart" several times.  No first name.

Vessels is also mentioned:

Quote

On June 16, 2010, at 6 p.m., Ida Smith and a crowd of around 50 onlookers gathered in the Salt Lake City Cemetery in the lower Avenues, a few feet from the 18-foot obelisk dedicated to the memory of Hyrum Smith that looms over his family plot. They were attending the dedication of a gravestone recently placed on Ida Smith’s own burial plot, which she had donated to Nemelka.

Nemelka did not attend the dedication of the gravestone that proclaimed him as the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith, along with boasting two trademarked Websites inscribed in bright blue at the base of the plinth, which promote his work. He says the gravestone is not meant to mock. “It stands as a contrast to the falsehoods that the LDS Church has been giving the world for a long time, OK?”

Nemelka’s stand-in, his attorney Rodney J. Vessels, told the crowd that Ida Smith, “will be known in history, throughout all generations of time, as one of the greatest protectors and progenitors of her great, great grandfather’s true legacy. ”

Lynette Cook is not referenced in the article.  However, Lynette Cook has been referenced in legal documents filed in Idaho by Mr. Nemelka (see here and here).

Thanks,

-Smac

[stemelbow]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

 

Two lawsuits in a 16-million member church is not indicative of anything.

Granted.  But if it continues...

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

And the Church isn't "money-centered."  That's an absurd characterization.

Not-granted.  It seems to me the main purpose at this point is to make money.  Surely it has other activities that aren't directly bringing in cash.  But they seem secondary at this point.  

[Smackat]

Here are some write ups about it from one of Nemelka’s groups  

https://www.realilluminati.org/post/humanity-vs-world-s-wealthiest-church

 

https://www.realilluminati.org/post/the-only-thing-necessary-for-the-triumph-of-evil-is-for-good-people-to-do-nothing

if you scroll through to the bottom of this one, it has all the details of the filing  

 

Lynette Cook posted a summary of it on her Facebook Feb 10, if you do a search for her you can see it, I couldn’t get a link for it.  
 

I have a couple family members involved with Christopher and get to see lots of his stuff through their Facebook posts.

 

[smac97]

25 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Quote

And the Church isn't "money-centered."  That's an absurd characterization.

Not-granted. 

Not surprised.

Quote

It seems to me the main purpose at this point is to make money. 

Poppycock.  The leaders of the Church aren't in it for the money.  They could have lives of opulence and wealth.  Instead, they receive compensation of $120,000 or so per year.  The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve work until they literally die.  No retirement.  The Seventy are often called into that quorum at the peak of their earning years, then serve until they turn 70.  

Quote

Surely it has other activities that aren't directly bringing in cash.  But they seem secondary at this point.  

Meh.  This is unserious.  You are just playing the provocateur.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 18, 2020 by smac97

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, Smackat said:

Here are some write ups about it from one of Nemelka’s groups  

https://www.realilluminati.org/post/humanity-vs-world-s-wealthiest-church

 

https://www.realilluminati.org/post/the-only-thing-necessary-for-the-triumph-of-evil-is-for-good-people-to-do-nothing

if you scroll through to the bottom of this one, it has all the details of the filing  

 

Lynette Cook posted a summary of it on her Facebook Feb 10, if you do a search for her you can see it, I couldn’t get a link for it.  
 

I have a couple family members involved with Christopher and get to see lots of his stuff through their Facebook posts.

 

Thanks for joining.

Besides the long lawsuit against a former follower that was apparently finally resolved in May 2019 (iirc from the case file calendar I looked at), has there been anything of note in the last few years?  What is the group's usual occupation?

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

It seems to me the main purpose at this point is to make money. 

Then why so much missionary work outside the US when the end result is having to support these growing congregations? (US is the only self sufficient country at this point)

[stemelbow]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Not surprised.

Poppycock.  The leaders of the Church aren't in it for the money.  They could have lives of opulence and wealth.  Instead, they receive compensation of $120,000 or so per year.  The First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve work until they literally die.  No retirement.  The Seventy are often called into that quorum at the peak of their earning years, then serve until they turn 70.  

The 120k was base pay from a few years back.  I'm not saying they're sinking it rich.   I merely pointed out the church has a very obvious motivation to make money.  My goodness the church has a larger cash reserve than Google, apple and amazon..  a large corporation doesn't get that rich by accident.  

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Meh.  This is unserious.  You are just playing the provocateur.

Thanks,

-Smac

I'm not.   Just pointing out the obvious.   I can't help if the obvious is not serious to you.   

[stemelbow]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Then why so much missionary work outside the US when the end result is having to support these growing congregations? (US is the only self sufficient country at this point)

With out such outreach they appear far less a credible church which in turn would cause the donor to rethink donating.   Of course if the church was more interested in people and conversion it'd drop the exclusive teaching and would use its vast resources to help people.  Of course if the church stopped its operations as they are and gave to the.poor and needy, sacrificing for others, itd draw far more converts because who wouldn't want to be a part of helping humanity at such a scale?   And with more itd be set to take in more donations which in turn could be used to help humanity.  

I saw whatshisname Bezos donated 10 B to global warming issues.  That's nice.   I hear he has about the same cash reserve as the church.  I'm curious about your claim of only the US being the only self sufficient country.  

[Calm]

 

Quote

  I'm curious about your claim of only the US being the only self sufficient country.  

 I have seen it in a couple of places, latest was the whistleblowing doc appendix.  Sometimes Canada is included.  I think Michael Quinn had info on it as well.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Calm

[rpn]

6 hours ago, provoman said:

vid J. Jordan of Stoel Rives LLP, attorneys for the Church, alleging that Plaintiffs' claims "are not cognizable under the Constitution of the United States" and that they "would be subject to dismissal." There was no offer to meet with Plaintiffs; rather, Plaintiffs were told that their claims "are squarely barred by the Constitution and, if filed, would be in violation of Rule II."

This is the standard safe harbor letter that will allow the court to order plaintiffs to pay the church's attorney fees if the court agrees the claims are frivolous.   (Though it is interesting that they named only the Constitution as making it frivolous, when if smac is correct it's not cognizable on statutory grounds either.)

[Calm]

Looks like Nemelka himself got slammed by a RICO lawsuit and it was successful (it was the court case he tried to get the judge removed from and failed).  Ended up paying....if he did pay...over $15,000 rather than just over $5000.  This link also includes affidavits from his followers in 2018, including the three involved in the current lawsuit.

https://marvelousworkandawonder.files.wordpress.com/2019/05/nemelka-summary-judgment.pdf

[Kenngo1969]

8 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I wonder if people will just continue to file lawsuits against the Church until something sticks? 

That assessment could apply to any number of organizations, couldn't it?  "I wonder if people will continue to file lawsuits against [fill-in-name-of-organization-here] until something sticks."

Quote

It'll be a pretty clear indication some members are fed up with the money-centered Church though. 

That assessment is based on a couple of pretty big assumptions.  I would think you would need to support the assumptions for the overall point to have support. 

Quote

I mean that's already true, perhaps that'll become more and more true.

You haven't heard the old saying that a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich?  Civil litigation isn't much different.  While evidence is another matter, and while simply because an action is filed doesn't mean it will survive a motion for summary judgment or a motion to dismiss, pretty much anyone can sue pretty much any entity about pretty much anything.

Quote

I guess we'll see. 

Indeed we will.

Quote

From the little blurb about it, this particular lawsuit seems a little nutty.  The scriptures should have no part in it, I would think.

Ah!  At last!  We agree!!!

[Kenngo1969]

On 2/17/2020 at 8:54 PM, provoman said:

Another tid bit, "On January 20, 2020, Plaintiffs offered to settle this matter with the Church, so that the Church could avoid this lawsuit and any subsequent publicity."

If so, I'm glad the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its lawyers told these plaintiffs to take a hike! (If that sounds harsh, I almost said, "stick it where the sun don't ...")

[Scott Lloyd]

19 hours ago, provoman said:

page 4 - 5 of the complaint, lines 32 - 35

 

32. On Januaty 20, 2020, Plaintiffs offered to settle this matter with the Church, so that the Church could avoid this lawsuit and any subsequent publicity. A draft complaint was provided to the Church, together with Plaintiffs' discovery of the Church's $100 billion fund that hoards Church members' tithing and offerings.
33. On January 30, 2020, Plaintiffs submitted to the Church a redrafted complaint, giving the Church until the end of the day Monday, February 3, 2020 to respond.
34. Soon after submitting our redrafted complaint, Plaintiffs received a letter from David J. Jordan of Stoel Rives LLP, attorneys for the Church, alleging that Plaintiffs' claims "are not cognizable under the Constitution of the United States" and that they "would be subject to dismissal." There was no offer to meet with Plaintiffs; rather, Plaintiffs were told that their claims "are squarely barred by the Constitution and, if filed, would be in violation of Rule II."

Looks like plaintiffs attempted a shakedown and were rebuffed. Bravo. 

[Tacenda]

For those that don't know about Nemelka, here he is on Heart of the Matter in 2012. Start around the 8:00 min. mark and skip Shawn's intro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtMcAnwyJQY

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Tacenda