Sunslight Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 4 hours ago, stemelbow said: True. He could be hiding out there somewhere, I suppose. But it's also true just because someone says they've seen him, it certainly doesn't mean he's definitely out there. It could just be their dream or vision. I guess one could say anything, we can choose to believe or be amongst the unbelievers at the last day. Wouldn't it be wise to believe?
MiserereNobis Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sunslight said: I guess one could say anything, we can choose to believe or be amongst the unbelievers at the last day. Wouldn't it be wise to believe? I'm not a fan of Pascal's wager because... in whom should we believe? I'm guessing Baal is pretty peeved that he doesn't have many worshippers right now and is planning his punishment for all of the unbelievers. 2
Ahab Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Sunslight said: I guess one could say anything, we can choose to believe or be amongst the unbelievers at the last day. Wouldn't it be wise to believe? One thing I would like to see everyone acknowledge is the idea that there must be some kind of God, even if we don't know which kind of being is the most supreme kind of being. And by God I mean the best kind of being in all of existence. If we are it, and we are limited to only this planet, with no better kind of being out there in all of existence, no need to worry because when we die then that is the end of us. And logically we would consider ourselves to be God because we believe we are the best kind of being. That's what puzzles me about people who say they do not believe in God. As if they believe there is no supreme being in all of existence. Why don't think just believe that we are God and that there is no better kind of being than us, our kind of being? It just doesn't make sense. What are they thinking about when they think of what they believe God is? No supreme being? Even if we are it? Why would they say that? What is going on in their minds, logically?
CV75 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ahab said: One thing I would like to see everyone acknowledge is the idea that there must be some kind of God, even if we don't know which kind of being is the most supreme kind of being. And by God I mean the best kind of being in all of existence. If we are it, and we are limited to only this planet, with no better kind of being out there in all of existence, no need to worry because when we die then that is the end of us. And logically we would consider ourselves to be God because we believe we are the best kind of being. That's what puzzles me about people who say they do not believe in God. As if they believe there is no supreme being in all of existence. Why don't think just believe that we are God and that there is no better kind of being than us, our kind of being? It just doesn't make sense. What are they thinking about when they think of what they believe God is? No supreme being? Even if we are it? Why would they say that? What is going on in their minds, logically? I think many do not think in terms of which form of life is best, but which condition is best for themselves (and by extension, other life forms). I think many do not think in terms of "life" being the default condition cosmically-speaking, but as long as they find themselves in such a condition, will seek a "best condition."
Ahab Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, CV75 said: I think many do not think in terms of which form of life is best, but which condition is best for themselves (and by extension, other life forms). I think many do not think in terms of "life" being the default condition cosmically-speaking, but as long as they find themselves in such a condition, will seek a "best condition." I don't want to get very far into that line of thought because I'd like this thread to be about what we believe God is, for those who say they believe or do not believe in God, than about why people do what they do to try to live the best kind of life they know how to live, but your comments do relate to that point a bit. If everyone acknowledged that there is no greater kind of being in all of existence than our kind of being, that we are the best kind of being and can therefore consider ourselves to be God, then any reports from any of us about after death experiences, or near death experiences, would give the most reasonable of us the idea that maybe, just maybe, there is life after death for all of us. Even if we didn't believe there was some greater being out there that we haven't seen or found out about yet and as far as we are concerned does not exist, just the idea that there is life after death would give us some reason to consider that maybe we should try to prepare ourselves for that. Believing we are going to go to where all others of us have gone before us, doing whatever we can to make our lives better once we die and get to the other side. Pharoahs in the past seemed to think they should do something to prepare for their lives after death, for example. They considered themselves to be God or gods and somehow they got the idea that they would continue to live after they died. So they tried to prepare for it. I think all of us should do what we can to prepare for life after we die, too. Even if there is no greater kind of being than us, the idea that we will live again after we die should give us some reason to do something to prepare for that if or when we get there. Edited February 7, 2020 by Ahab
The Nehor Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said: I'm not a fan of Pascal's wager because... in whom should we believe? I'm guessing Baal is pretty peeved that he doesn't have many worshippers right now and is planning his punishment for all of the unbelievers. I have got that covered. I blame it on the ADHD instead of the phone though. 2
The Nehor Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Ahab said: One thing I would like to see everyone acknowledge is the idea that there must be some kind of God, even if we don't know which kind of being is the most supreme kind of being. And by God I mean the best kind of being in all of existence. If we are it, and we are limited to only this planet, with no better kind of being out there in all of existence, no need to worry because when we die then that is the end of us. And logically we would consider ourselves to be God because we believe we are the best kind of being. That's what puzzles me about people who say they do not believe in God. As if they believe there is no supreme being in all of existence. Why don't think just believe that we are God and that there is no better kind of being than us, our kind of being? It just doesn't make sense. What are they thinking about when they think of what they believe God is? No supreme being? Even if we are it? Why would they say that? What is going on in their minds, logically? You want people to acknowledge something using a specific word that only you generally use in that specific way and you imagine this would be some kind of achievement? You are a god. Charity requires me not to tell you what you are a god of.
Sunslight Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: I'm not a fan of Pascal's wager because... in whom should we believe? I'm guessing Baal is pretty peeved that he doesn't have many worshippers right now and is planning his punishment for all of the unbelievers. I guess one could play Russian roulett with Baal but he would dead wrong.
Ahab Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You want people to acknowledge something using a specific word that only you generally use in that specific way and you imagine this would be some kind of achievement? No. 19 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You are a god. I am actually THE God. Please try to pay attention. 19 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Charity requires me not to tell you what you are a god of. Awwwhhhh. Aren't you sweet.
CV75 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Ahab said: I don't want to get very far into that line of thought because I'd like this thread to be about what we believe God is, for those who say they believe or do not believe in God, than about why people do what they do to try to live the best kind of life they know how to live, but your comments do relate to that point a bit. From my experience, those that do not believe in God will say there is none, and they don't necessarily tote homo sapiens as the best life form. But for those that do believe that man is at the top, "afterlife" is still an oxymoronic concept. But for those that do believe in a continued consciousness after death, I don't think that alone motivates them to prepare, but rather a belief in karma, or a metaphysically-explained effect from cause that doesn't require a god of any kind. Of course there are people who say they come back from the dead and Pharaohs who say they know how to successfully stay dead, but who believes them? Being the highest life form guarantees neither credibility nor gullibility!
2BizE Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Ahab said: Your answer will depend on who you ask. Our belief is that there is only one kind of being that is God and that kind of being, which is our kind of being, exists as multiple persons. Parents reproducing themselves with no beginning or end of parents and children. Ask someone else and they could possibly tell you something else because not everyone agrees with us and we allow everyone to think what they want. All of those persons are the same God, though, the same kind of being which we refer to as God. And again, remember, not everyone agrees with that and we are okay with allowing people, even people who are God, to believe whatever they want to believe. Giving space to allow people to believe in God as they may is really important as we really do not know if he exists and if so, what he is like. Our beliefs are regional. People in different regions of the world believe in God differently, and each concept of God is true to them and beautiful.
Ahab Posted February 8, 2020 Author Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 2BizE said: Giving space to allow people to believe in God as they may is really important as we really do not know if he exists and if so, what he is like. Our beliefs are regional. People in different regions of the world believe in God differently, and each concept of God is true to them and beautiful. Case in point, you do not believe as I do, apparently, based on my understanding of what you have said, and I respect your right to believe whatever you want to believe. And I hope you also respect my right to believe we CAN know God, our kind of being, exists and that God includes the person I refer to as our Father in heaven, and Jesus Christ, and you and me and every other person who is the same kind of being they/we are. Not all are as perfect as our Father or Jesus, but we are all the same kind of being. I'm working on becoming as perfect as our Father in heaven and I hope to eventually make it. And I don't believe all concepts of God are beautiful, as you say you do. I simply respect everyone's right to believe whatever they believe, whether I agree with them or not. Edited February 8, 2020 by Ahab
stemelbow Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 19 hours ago, Sunslight said: I guess one could say anything, we can choose to believe or be amongst the unbelievers at the last day. Wouldn't it be wise to believe? If Mormonism is true in some sense then everyone will believe at the last day, so why the fuss? Every knee shall bow and all that. If someone makes a happy and useful life as an unbeliever it hardly will matter. Living a life under constant threat seems silly.
Sunslight Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 39 minutes ago, stemelbow said: If Mormonism is true in some sense then everyone will believe at the last day, so why the fuss? Every knee shall bow and all that. If someone makes a happy and useful life as an unbeliever it hardly will matter. Living a life under constant threat seems silly. Sounds like Satan's doctrine to me. Why would one allow Satan to subtly lead their soul down to hell?
stemelbow Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Sunslight said: Sounds like Satan's doctrine to me. Why would one allow Satan to subtly lead their soul down to hell? Only the sons of perdition are going to satan's abode. Everyone else will be blessed with a kingdom of glory. I've been told there's no way I could be a son of perdition, by people here already. I never " knew" the church was true. Indeed the way it's been argued the whole notion of sons of perdition and satan are just silly since it appears no one will ever be knowledgeable enough anyway.
Sunslight Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Only the sons of perdition are going to satan's abode. Everyone else will be blessed with a kingdom of glory. I've been told there's no way I could be a son of perdition, by people here already. I never " knew" the church was true. Indeed the way it's been argued the whole notion of sons of perdition and satan are just silly since it appears no one will ever be knowledgeable enough anyway. It is said that the devil has power to cheat one's soul and lead him into perdition. Realistically, if a person just does nothing, both in this life and the life to come they will find their reward lurketh from below. It's not silly at all. It's terrifying for all those who choose wickedness because Satan is already their father.
stemelbow Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sunslight said: It is said that the devil has power to cheat one's soul and lead him into perdition. Realistically, if a person just does nothing, both in this life and the life to come they will find their reward lurketh from below. It's not silly at all. It's terrifying for all those who choose wickedness because Satan is already their father. So there are more sons of perdition than very few on your view? Someone doesn't have to know the truth nor any the holy ghost? Do you assume nonbelievers do nothing? As it is though the kinds of things you believe do sound silly to me. I men no offense though. I couldn't accept such a terrible view of others.
CA Steve Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 29 minutes ago, Sunslight said: It is said that the devil has power to cheat one's soul and lead him into perdition. Realistically, if a person just does nothing, both in this life and the life to come they will find their reward lurketh from below. It's not silly at all. It's terrifying for all those who choose wickedness because Satan is already their father. Are you LDS? This sounds nothing like LDS eschatology.
Sunslight Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: So there are more sons of perdition than very few on your view? Someone doesn't have to know the truth nor any the holy ghost? Do you assume nonbelievers do nothing? As it is though the kinds of things you believe do sound silly to me. I men no offense though. I couldn't accept such a terrible view of others. Who will be your head in the end, who will you call Father?
Sunslight Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, CA Steve said: Are you LDS? This sounds nothing like LDS eschatology. Have you read the Book of Mormon?
The Nehor Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 9:17 AM, stemelbow said: If Mormonism is true in some sense then everyone will believe at the last day, so why the fuss? Every knee shall bow and all that. If someone makes a happy and useful life as an unbeliever it hardly will matter. Living a life under constant threat seems silly. Only if you consider around a millenia of torment trivial that Jesus describes as horrible beyond our comprehension as long as it ends at some point. I do not. 2
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 1:04 PM, Sunslight said: Have you read the Book of Mormon? This doesn't answer the question
mfbukowski Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 11:36 AM, Sunslight said: It is said that the devil has power to cheat one's soul and lead him into perdition. Realistically, if a person just does nothing, both in this life and the life to come they will find their reward lurketh from below. It's not silly at all. It's terrifying for all those who choose wickedness because Satan is already their father. Read section 76, you seem to be incorrect.
Sunslight Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, mfbukowski said: Read section 76, you seem to be incorrect. No, not at all.
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