What Is God

[stemelbow]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:04 PM, Sunslight said:

Who will be your head in the end, who will you call Father? 

Whose my daddy?  What a weird question.  Which ones your Mother?  

[stemelbow]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Only if you consider around a millenia of torment trivial that Jesus describes as horrible beyond our comprehension as long as it ends at some point. I do not.

Humans have been tormented on earth for far more than a millennia.  How could it be worse?  It's just a bundle of spirits sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the day they've already been promised.  Give them a deck of cards, teach them Texas no limit and it'll go by in no time.  I'm serious, the notion that they will suffer torment, under such conditions is just nonsense.  They already know they will be redeemed, no matter what.  They have no bodies, but are spirits.  They'll have no mental anguish.  They'll have no physical, I mean they can't even die.  What's he going to do, tickle them for a millennia?  Tie 'em up and slap their spirit faces, endlessly?   They'll be with everyone else who is in the same boat.  

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Humans have been tormented on earth for far more than a millennia.  How could it be worse?  It's just a bundle of spirits sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the day they've already been promised.  Give them a deck of cards, teach them Texas no limit and it'll go by in no time.  I'm serious, the notion that they will suffer torment, under such conditions is just nonsense.  They already know they will be redeemed, no matter what.  They have no bodies, but are spirits.  They'll have no mental anguish.  They'll have no physical, I mean they can't even die.  What's he going to do, tickle them for a millennia?  Tie 'em up and slap their spirit faces, endlessly?   They'll be with everyone else who is in the same boat.  

Maybe the question should be how could your life be better.  Is that the best kind of life you can imagine living?  Those of us who go on to become more like our Father will have better things to do than sitting around and playing card games, although we might still sit around and play with you on occasions.  Redemption is about being saved from a way of life that is inferior to some better way it otherwise could be, so if sitting around playing cards sounds like heaven to you that may not be so bad, for you, but I would rather do something more enjoyable than that.

And yes spirits do and will continue to experience the full range of emotions we can now experience.  Our spirit is the same thing as our mind.. not our brain but our mind... and is essentially what makes us the kind of being we are.  Animals have animal spirits within their bodies and plants have plant spirits inside their bodies while we have the spirit of God, the same kind of spirit as our Father in heaven.  A spirit is also what gives life to a body and without it that body would be dead.  So yes you could and would still feel anguish and every other emotion you can now experience even if you remained as only a spirit forever without being resurrected back into your body.  And yes you will be with others like you, with nobody better to learn from unless some other better person came around to visit  you on some occasions, like maybe on your birthdays.  So I'm now picturing your life something like this:

Me: Hey, hello there!  How are you doing?  So how long has it been now? What have you been up to lately???

You: Oh, seems like only yesterday.  I am really not sure how long it has been. I don't really count the years anymore and I don't see much point in keeping track of the different days, either.

Me:  You still enjoying sitting around playing cards with all of the people you play cards with?

You:  Yep, we started this new card game a little while ago, and we really like it much better than that old version we played before this one.

Me:  That's good.  That's good.  It's important to have something you like to do.  Do you ever consider doing anything else?

You: Oh, no, no.  This is fine and fun enough for me!  I'm surprised you don't come around here and play with us more often.  What have you been up to lately?

Me:  Oh, just something I like.  You probably wouldn't be interested.  You still have that barbeque pit we go to sometimes?

You:  Oh, yeah.  That guy is still around and still doing it and doing it right.  You want to go there with me a bit later?

Me:  Sure, I would love to.  Thank you for asking.  I haven't been there in a while...

 

 

 

 

[stemelbow]

13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Maybe the question should be how could your life be better.  Is that the best kind of life you can imagine living?  Those of us who go on to become more like our Father will have better things to do than sitting around and playing card games, although we might still sit around and play with you on occasions.  Redemption is about being saved from a way of life that is inferior to some better way it otherwise could be, so if sitting around playing cards sounds like heaven to you that may not be so bad, for you, but I would rather do something more enjoyable than that.

And yes spirits do and will continue to experience the full range of emotions we can now experience.  Our spirit is the same thing as our mind.. not our brain but our mind... and is essentially what makes us the kind of being we are.  Animals have animal spirits within their bodies and plants have plant spirits inside their bodies while we have the spirit of God, the same kind of spirit as our Father in heaven.  A spirit is also what gives life to a body and without it that body would be dead.  So yes you could and would still feel anguish and every other emotion you can now experience even if you remained as only a spirit forever without being resurrected back into your body.  And yes you will be with others like you, with nobody better to learn from unless some other better person came around to visit  you on some occasions, like maybe on your birthdays.  So I'm now picturing your life something like this:

Me: Hey, hello there!  How are you doing?  So how long has it been now? What have you been up to lately???

You: Oh, seems like only yesterday.  I am really not sure how long it has been. I don't really count the years anymore and I don't see much point in keeping track of the different days, either.

Me:  You still enjoying sitting around playing cards with all of the people you play cards with?

You:  Yep, we started this new card game a little while ago, and we really like it much better than that old version we played before this one.

Me:  That's good.  That's good.  It's important to have something you like to do.  Do you ever consider doing anything else?

You: Oh, no, no.  This is fine and fun enough for me!  I'm surprised you don't come around here and play with us more often.  What have you been up to lately?

Me:  Oh, just something I like.  You probably wouldn't be interested.  You still have that barbeque pit we go to sometimes?

You:  Oh, yeah.  That guy is still around and still doing it and doing it right.  You want to go there with me a bit later?

Me:  Sure, I would love to.  Thank you for asking.  I haven't been there in a while...

 

 

 

 

I don't really like cards.  I think you missed my point.  Ah well.  your carrying on gets me looking forward to it all.  I wonder what happens when the animal spirit of a lion tries to eat the spirit of a man.  The human spirit won't be able to shoot the lion spirit dead.  I mean how do you kill a spirit?   And the poor lion spirit will have the same appetites and passions, so he won't be able to stop himself.  Will the spirit of a man end up inside the spirit of lion as the lion opens his mouth and starts to engulf?  or will the lion get frustrated chewing on something he can't penetrate with his sharp spirit teeth?   Will the lion start to change his passions and appetites knowing it's fruitless to try and eat another spirit being?  If so what would that say about our same passions and appetites?  Maybe we'll change too, and we won't have the same.  

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I don't really like cards.  I think you missed my point.  Ah well. 

You seem to have missed my point as well.  Ah well.

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

your carrying on gets me looking forward to it all. 

Yeah I think it could still be fun, sometimes.  I imagine I will still like barbeque.

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I wonder what happens when the animal spirit of a lion tries to eat the spirit of a man.  The human spirit won't be able to shoot the lion spirit dead.  I mean how do you kill a spirit?   And the poor lion spirit will have the same appetites and passions, so he won't be able to stop himself.  Will the spirit of a man end up inside the spirit of lion as the lion opens his mouth and starts to engulf?  or will the lion get frustrated chewing on something he can't penetrate with his sharp spirit teeth?   Will the lion start to change his passions and appetites knowing it's fruitless to try and eat another spirit being?  If so what would that say about our same passions and appetites?  Maybe we'll change too, and we won't have the same.  

Maybe we will change but there will always be another round of spirits going through the same experiences we went through in mortality as well as other people who went through all that to end up in a kingdom of glory.  So the question will then be who can we visit and what will various people be doing?  I'm sure someone will still be making some good barbeque somewhere and I think I will be able to visit people who know how to make it.  Or if not I think I would be able to go to where animals still die and get what I need to make it myself.  The bummer would be if I couldn't go there because maybe I wouldn't know where to go or how to get there.  So I'd have to settle for just plant food all of the time when I wanted to eat something.  A totally vegan diet.  Which I suppose would still be okay most of the time except that I think I would still get particular cravings. Or maybe not.  Maybe I just wouldn't eat anything  because nothing tasted good to me anymore and since I wouldn't need to eat to keep on living why bother with food anymore.  Except that Adam and Eve at least had some fruit trees to eat from and someone killed something to get some leather clothing for them after seeing them in those fig leaves.  And since leather doesn't grow on trees I think there will always be something to make some barbeque with.

[stemelbow]

48 minutes ago, Ahab said:

You seem to have missed my point as well.  Ah well.

Yeah I think it could still be fun, sometimes.  I imagine I will still like barbeque.

Maybe we will change but there will always be another round of spirits going through the same experiences we went through in mortality as well as other people who went through all that to end up in a kingdom of glory.  So the question will then be who can we visit and what will various people be doing?  I'm sure someone will still be making some good barbeque somewhere and I think I will be able to visit people who know how to make it.  Or if not I think I would be able to go to where animals still die and get what I need to make it myself.  The bummer would be if I couldn't go there because maybe I wouldn't know where to go or how to get there.  So I'd have to settle for just plant food all of the time when I wanted to eat something.  A totally vegan diet.  Which I suppose would still be okay most of the time except that I think I would still get particular cravings. Or maybe not.  Maybe I just wouldn't eat anything  because nothing tasted good to me anymore and since I wouldn't need to eat to keep on living why bother with food anymore.  Except that Adam and Eve at least had some fruit trees to eat from and someone killed something to get some leather clothing for them after seeing them in those fig leaves.  And since leather doesn't grow on trees I think there will always be something to make some barbeque with.

What makes you think we'll be eating after we die?  one would think our hunger and thirst would disappear.  I suppose our same appetites and diets?  I recall people used to say of smokers and drinkers that they can't just stop after they die because they'd have the same appetites?  In what spirit world are they growing tobacco?  Will it just be the spirit of the plant?  If so, how would that be smokable?  

[Ahab]

26 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What makes you think we'll be eating after we die? 

The way I see it, the point of the Atonement is to return us all to the same state Adam and Eve were in before they fell, thus redeeming us from that fall, with the added bonus of not having to die again. And since they were able to eat from every tree in the garden of Eden before they fell, I figure that we will be able to do that too.  Even from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this next time around because we already did and we have already overcome that challenge.  Not that we'll need to eat, otherwise we would die, but because it won't kill us to eat and I'm pretty sure particular foods will still taste good to us.

Quote

one would think our hunger and thirst would disappear. 

I eat sometimes when I don't need to.  Don't you?  What will be the diff as long as the food we eat does not kill us?

Quote

I suppose our same appetites and diets? 

Yep, I think we'll still have them, or that we can change them if and when we want to, sometimes not eating for days and days if we do not feel like eating anything.

Quote

I recall people used to say of smokers and drinkers that they can't just stop after they die because they'd have the same appetites?  In what spirit world are they growing tobacco?  Will it just be the spirit of the plant?  If so, how would that be smokable?  

All of the plants we have on this planet have spirits in them.  And animals too.  Otherwise they would not be living.  And we can kill them when we want to.  So it will be the same on some planets as it is here, even if on other planets the plants and animals do not die as they do here.  Not everything will be the same everywhere.  There will still be all of the variety that we now have, just as there are some planets out there now where the people and animals and plants on them do not die.   You're not thinking that just because things die here that means they die everywhere, are you?  Or that just because we will be transitioning to planets where things do not die, that means there will be no more planets where the living things on those planets will die.  There will still be the same classifications of planets later as there are right now.  On some planets living things die, and on some other planets they don't.  People who will still crave tobacco after they die will just need to go somewhere they can still kill some tobacco plants, or to where other people kill those plants for them.  If they can get there, otherwise they will just have to learn to live without that stuff.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Humans have been tormented on earth for far more than a millennia.  How could it be worse?  It's just a bundle of spirits sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the day they've already been promised.  Give them a deck of cards, teach them Texas no limit and it'll go by in no time.  I'm serious, the notion that they will suffer torment, under such conditions is just nonsense.  They already know they will be redeemed, no matter what.  They have no bodies, but are spirits.  They'll have no mental anguish.  They'll have no physical, I mean they can't even die.  What's he going to do, tickle them for a millennia?  Tie 'em up and slap their spirit faces, endlessly?   They'll be with everyone else who is in the same boat.  

If there is one thing I have learned in life it is that it can always get worse.

“Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—“

Shame Jesus did not realize that if he had a deck of cards and the realization that the atonement would not last forever it would have been a breeze. Someone really should have told Him.

[Calm]

On 2/10/2020 at 7:24 AM, stemelbow said:

They'll have no mental anguish. 

So you assume because no brain, there will be no mind or thought?

If there is thought, consciousness, there can be anguish I am betting.
 

added:  removed personal experience as part of my commentary as thinking too hard to convey the sense of it

Edited February 11, 2020 by Calm

[stemelbow]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If there is one thing I have learned in life it is that it can always get worse.

“Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—“

Shame Jesus did not realize that if he had a deck of cards and the realization that the atonement would not last forever it would have been a breeze. Someone really should have told Him.

We won't have no blood nor pores to feel that great pain.  What pain do we feel when we are immortal spirits?  mental anguish?  Why?  We already know God has promised us eternal blessings at some point?  What is getting smitten with a rod mean?  God yelling at us "you dummy...you didn't repent enough.  Now, you have to sit there and feel the pain of sitting there until I say it's okay. oooooI"m so mad at you.  Think about how you didn't repent enough.  Time out for one millennia."

This does sound like it gets into the teaching that Joseph had wherein we disrespect Jesus' atonement so much its as if we are trying to re-sacrifice him or something.  But everyone here keeps telling me that those are really just sons of perdition folks, and that teaching essentially is meaningless today since no one can really know enough to be a son of perdition.  

[stemelbow]

27 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The way I see it, the point of the Atonement is to return us all to the same state Adam and Eve were in before they fell, thus redeeming us from that fall, with the added bonus of not having to die again. And since they were able to eat from every tree in the garden of Eden before they fell, I figure that we will be able to do that too.  Even from the tree of knowledge of good and evil this next time around because we already did and we have already overcome that challenge.  Not that we'll need to eat, otherwise we would die, but because it won't kill us to eat and I'm pretty sure particular foods will still taste good to us.

I probably wouldn't eat just so I don't have to go potty.  Heaven might be a stinky place with gluttony for eternity.  I suppose since space has no limits perhaps neither will our waste.  We won't have any reason not to eat whatever we want.  We won't die, or get obese.  Heaven sounds sadder and sadder.  

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I eat sometimes when I don't need to.  Don't you?  What will be the diff as long as the food we eat does not kill us?

Yep, I think we'll still have them, or that we can change them if and when we want to, sometimes not eating for days and days if we do not feel like eating anything.

All of the plants we have on this planet have spirits in them.  And animals too.  Otherwise they would not be living.  And we can kill them when we want to.  So it will be the same on some planets as it is here, even if on other planets the plants and animals do not die as they do here.  Not everything will be the same everywhere.  There will still be all of the variety that we now have, just as there are some planets out there now where the people and animals and plants on them do not die.   You're not thinking that just because things die here that means they die everywhere, are you?  Or that just because we will be transitioning to planets where things do not die, that means there will be no more planets where the living things on those planets will die.  There will still be the same classifications of planets later as there are right now.  On some planets living things die, and on some other planets they don't.  People who will still crave tobacco after they die will just need to go somewhere they can still kill some tobacco plants, or to where other people kill those plants for them.  If they can get there, otherwise they will just have to learn to live without that stuff.

Sometimes religious beliefs are absurdities when you think about them.  I've never tried hippo.  I can't wait to eat a tasty spirit hippo steak when I die.  Maybe I'll have a side of spirit brussel sprouts.  Still quite curious what happens to the spirit matter when I consume it.  Does it turn into waste, and that waste fertilizes the next spirit brussel sprout plant which then can be eaten by the next spirit hippo?  

Edited February 10, 2020 by stemelbow

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, stemelbow said:

We won't have no blood nor pores to feel that great pain.  What pain do we feel when we are immortal spirits?  mental anguish?  Why?  We already know God has promised us eternal blessings at some point?  What is getting smitten with a rod mean?  God yelling at us "you dummy...you didn't repent enough.  Now, you have to sit there and feel the pain of sitting there until I say it's okay. oooooI"m so mad at you.  Think about how you didn't repent enough.  Time out for one millennia."

This does sound like it gets into the teaching that Joseph had wherein we disrespect Jesus' atonement so much its as if we are trying to re-sacrifice him or something.  But everyone here keeps telling me that those are really just sons of perdition folks, and that teaching essentially is meaningless today since no one can really know enough to be a son of perdition.  

I think the mentality of the sons (and daughters) of Perdition is that they know it is true but they deny it anyway.  An oxymoron.  Perhaps it might make better sense to you if you substitute the word "deny" for telling lies about it.  Like they would be able to know the sun was shining, looking right at it, and deny that it was even though they knew it was.  

It's not like Satan doesn't know God or that Jesus is the Christ, they do know it.  They just deny it by not telling the truth about it.  And they don't repent while knowing that, according to the rules, they really should repent.  But even while knowing their fate and the rules they are under they will lie and try to get others to deny the truth because they don't want to live the way God wants them to live, even while knowing the consequences, according to God, if they continue to be rebels against him.

Prophets have said that it is difficult to qualify as a son of Perdition because they are aware of the level of knowledge needed before denying that knowledge, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to acquire that level of knowledge.  If you do know the truth, right now, and are denying it anyway, only acting as if you don't know by actively denying what you do know to be true, then I think you might qualify as a son of Perdition.  It's just that most who deny it are denying it because they don't really know, and if they did know, they would likely accept it rather than deny or reject it. 

[stemelbow]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

So you assume because no brain, there will be no mind or thought?

If there is thought, there can be anguish.

What anguish?  Is God just going to vex us with pain in our spirit hearts that we can't just forget about?  What is pain in an immortal spirit heart?  

 

[Ahab]

25 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I probably wouldn't eat just so I don't have to go potty.  Heaven might be a stinky place with gluttony for eternity.  I suppose since space has no limits perhaps neither will our waste.  We won't have any reason not to eat whatever we want.  We won't die, or get obese.  Heaven sounds sadder and sadder.  

I actually like the idea of eating whatever I want and not dieing or getting fat.  I just don't like the idea of having to kill other things to eat, so most often I would try to eat without killing anything.  Eating apples from an apple tree doesn't kill the tree, so I would do more things like that.  Like I do now.  Just to avoid having to kill something to eat it.  I think I will still get a craving for some kind of animal flesh sometimes, though, so I would just try to limit that or go to some place where it has already been killed so I don't have to kill it myself.

Disposing of mortal waste products left within us after eating mortal organic matter would be better accomplished by walking through fire than just expelling it from our bodies.  It's just that we can't do that while we are mortal otherwise our mortal bodies would burn up as well.

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Sometimes religious beliefs are absurdities when you think about them. 

Sometimes, definitely, depending on what those religious beliefs are.  There are lots of absurd, false, religious beliefs and I think we should try to avoid them whenever possible.

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I've never tried hippo.  I can't wait to eat a tasty spirit hippo steak when I die.  Maybe I'll have a side of spirit brussel sprouts.  Still quite curious what happens to the spirit matter when I consume it.  Does it turn into waste, and that waste fertilizes the next spirit brussel sprout plant which then can be eaten by the next spirit hippo?  

Just realize that a hippo will need to be a mortal hippo otherwise you will not be able to kill it to eat it.  All hippos have spirits in them but the only ones you can kill and eat are the ones that are mortal.  Same with brussel sprouts, or anything else.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Ahab

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I actually like the idea of eating whatever I want and not dieing or getting fat.  I just don't like the idea of having to kill other things to eat, so most often I would try to eat without killing anything.  Eating apples from an apple tree doesn't kill the tree, so I would do more things like that.  Like I do now.  Just to avoid having to kill something to eat it.  I think I will still get a craving for some kind of animal flesh sometimes, though, so I would just try to limit that or go to some place where it has already been killed so I don't have to kill it myself.

Disposing of mortal waste products left within us after eating mortal organic matter would be better accomplished by walking through fire than just expelling it from our bodies.  It's just that we can't do that while we are mortal otherwise our mortal bodies would burn up as well.

Sometimes, definitely, depending on what those religious beliefs are.  There are lots of absurd, false, religious beliefs and I think we should try to avoid them whenever possible.

Just realize that a hippo will need to be a mortal hippo otherwise you will not be able to kill it to eat it.  All hippos have spirits in them but the only ones you can kill and eat are the ones that are mortal.  Same with brussel sprouts, or anything else.

So spirit beings are eating mortal things?  Is that what happens when people's bodies disappear from time to time?  Those spirit bodies are itching for some mortal human flesh?  I admit, I don't think my mind's wrapping around what you're putting down.  I wonder if we'll be able to chew through a rock when we're spirits eating mortal things.  I mean we'll be immortal so we won't be chipping our teeth or nothing.  Maybe instead of imagining eating mortal living things we should imagine eating mortal non living things.  

[Calm]

23 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What anguish?  Is God just going to vex us with pain in our spirit hearts that we can't just forget about?  What is pain in an immortal spirit heart?  

 

Please reread my post (edit:  Changed my mind, think this is one of those experiences you have to ‘be there’)

I believe pain will be the full on unprotected experience/knowledge of the suffering we have caused others.  Reliving perhaps the experience from the view of our victims, but possibly even more pain than they had because we will lack the emotional armour we create for ourselves.

It is not that unusual of an idea of justice.  Star Trek Voyager had an episode where a crewmember was believed to have been a murderer and the sentence was to have the memory of being murdered implanted and than repeated every so often.  There have been movies or shows where the bully switches bodies with their victim and thus comes to realize the consequences of their actions and become a better person.  

Now couple that with an inability to distance/protect ourselves from experiencing those emotions, unable to rationalize them away because we know the reality.  No numbing to feeling possible.  A constant open wound, eternally bleeding...or at least feeling like it is because the moment one is in is all one is then aware of.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Calm

[let’s roll]

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What anguish?  Is God just going to vex us with pain in our spirit hearts that we can't just forget about?  What is pain in an immortal spirit heart?  

 

Imagine a child of God both recognizing and feeling (again) the perfect love of their heavenly parents, and being unable (because of fear, doubt, guilt, unworthiness, etc.) to accept their invitation to dwell with them and join them in their eternal work—in essence choosing to leave behind those whom the child realizes love them like no one else ever has, or could.

I trust you can see how the pain and anguish that would cause might be characterized as eternal torment.

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Imagine a child of God both recognizing and feeling (again) the perfect love of their heavenly parents, and being unable (because of fear, doubt, guilt, unworthiness, etc.) to accept their invitation to dwell with them and join them in their eternal work—in essence choosing to leave behind those whom the child realizes love them like no one else ever has, or could.

I trust you can see how the pain and anguish that would cause might be characterized as eternal torment.

I'm trying to imagine but it doesn't really make sense.  So are we little children after we die?  We can't accept that we're essentially in a 1,000 year time out and it'll end.  I mean what's 1,000 years in eternity?  Basically nothing. 

You seem to be saying we're like the little child who hits his sister and gets put in time out, and during the time of that time out we're yelping and screaming and throwing a fit, mostly as an act of feeling foolish or ashamed for our behavior?  I mean who'd care if we got 1,000 year break from the work if the work goes on for eternity?  

ALso, it appears we're left to sit in time out all because we didn't say sorry quite enough.  "well yes, you did apologize and feel badly and tried to fix the wrong you caused...but you didn't do it enough.  You only tried a little...you were luke warm."  

"uh can you please be more specific?  How many sorrys must have said?  Luke warm about what?  I tried to be nice to people and felt passionate about that."

"Nah...I'm spewing you out.  think about it. oh  but, I never knew you."  

[stemelbow]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

Read my post for its addition.

I believe pain will be the full on unprotected experience/knowledge of the suffering we have caused others.  Reliving perhaps the experience from the view of our victims.

It is not that unusual of an idea of justice.  Star Trek Voyager had an episode where a crewmember was believed to have been a murderer and the sentence was to have the memory of being murdered implanted and than repeated every so often.  There have been movies or shows where the bully switches bodies with their victim and thus comes to realize the consequences of their actions and become a better person.  

Now couple that with an inability to distance/protect ourselves from experiencing those emotions, unable to rationalize them away because we know the reality.  No numbing to feeling possible.  A constant open wound, eternally bleeding...or at least feeling like it is because the moment one is in is all one is then aware of.

So if we're a murderer we'll feel badly for a while then we'll be saved?  What if we lived a normal life and we weren't a murderer?  What if in the coarse of that normal life we repented and tried to do better but didn't quite repent enough?  HOw do we feel pain if we never really hurt anyone?  

[Ahab]

34 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

So spirit beings are eating mortal things?  Is that what happens when people's bodies disappear from time to time?  Those spirit bodies are itching for some mortal human flesh?  I admit, I don't think my mind's wrapping around what you're putting down.  I wonder if we'll be able to chew through a rock when we're spirits eating mortal things.  I mean we'll be immortal so we won't be chipping our teeth or nothing.  Maybe instead of imagining eating mortal living things we should imagine eating mortal non living things.  

I realize you're just trying to have some fun here but please also try to be reasonable.  Why would you want to eat a rock or think that a rock might taste good?  I don't even want to think about people eating other people and I don't think you should either.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Ahab

[let’s roll]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I'm trying to imagine but it doesn't really make sense.  So are we little children after we die?  We can't accept that we're essentially in a 1,000 year time out and it'll end.  I mean what's 1,000 years in eternity?  Basically nothing. 

You seem to be saying we're like the little child who hits his sister and gets put in time out, and during the time of that time out we're yelping and screaming and throwing a fit, mostly as an act of feeling foolish or ashamed for our behavior?  I mean who'd care if we got 1,000 year break from the work if the work goes on for eternity?  

ALso, it appears we're left to sit in time out all because we didn't say sorry quite enough.  "well yes, you did apologize and feel badly and tried to fix the wrong you caused...but you didn't do it enough.  You only tried a little...you were luke warm."  

"uh can you please be more specific?  How many sorrys must have said?  Luke warm about what?  I tried to be nice to people and felt passionate about that."

"Nah...I'm spewing you out.  think about it. oh  but, I never knew you."  

None of that is what I mean...but I trust you know that.  

Jesus describes the characteristics of those who understand the things of eternity...pure in heart, poor in spirit, peacemakers, et al.

Those who are sincere about coming to understand the divine would do well to strive to develop those attributes.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

HOw do we feel pain if we never really hurt anyone?  

I have identified your primary problem here.

[Analytics]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:18 PM, Ahab said:

One thing I would like to see everyone acknowledge is the idea that there must be some kind of God, even if we don't know which kind of being is the most supreme kind of being.  And by God I mean the best kind of being in all of existence....

The idea that a most "supreme kind of being" even makes sense reminds me of the following quote from Douglas Adams:

“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”

[stemelbow]

17 hours ago, Ahab said:

I realize you're just trying to have some fun here but please also try to be reasonable.  Why would you want to eat a rock or think that a rock might taste good?  I don't even want to think about people eating other people and I don't think you should either.

Well if I were magically immortal with powers from on high I would just make a rock taste good.  I wouldn't worry about what would taste good to a mortal at all.  I"m not just trying to have fun here. I'm trying to make sense of what is being said and sometimes that takes some absurd ideas.  

[stemelbow]

15 hours ago, let’s roll said:

None of that is what I mean...but I trust you know that.  

Jesus describes the characteristics of those who understand the things of eternity...pure in heart, poor in spirit, peacemakers, et al.

Those who are sincere about coming to understand the divine would do well to strive to develop those attributes.

Those attributes come naturally to all of us.  The seeds of them are sitting in us.  Our lives may direct us to increase those or not, depending on what our experience is.  Our experience largely depends on when and where we are in this world.  We really can't help that placement.