Mary's Midwife? The Protoevangelium of James

[nuclearfuels]

Merry Christmas, friends.  

I'm curious as to what you all think about Mary having a midwife. I imagine she did but I haven't read the Protovangelium of James, so...

- - - 

Midwives have been around for thousands of years and are even mentioned in the Old Testament and play a pivotal role in the story of Moses.

Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiph′rah and the other Pu′ah,  “When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live.” (Exodus 1:15-17)

It would have been strange for Joseph to be alone with Mary for the birth of Jesus. Even though Joseph had great faith in God and trusted that Jesus was to be the Messiah, men at that time weren’t trained on how to deliver a child. Being an honest man, Joseph would have sought out help from a local midwife, realizing his lack of knowledge in that area.

Added to this historical knowledge, an ancient text from the year 145 called The Protoevangelium of James tells the story of Mary’s midwife and another woman who assisted at the birth.

And I [Joseph] saw a woman coming down from the hill-country, and she said to me: O man, whither are you going? And I said: I am seeking an Hebrew midwife. And she answered and said to me: Are you of Israel? And I said to her: Yes. And she said: And who is it that is bringing forth in the cave? And I said: A woman betrothed to me.

And the midwife went away with him. And they stood in the place of the cave, and behold a luminous cloud overshadowed the cave. And the midwife said: My soul has been magnified this day, because my eyes have seen strange things — because salvation has been brought forth to Israel. And immediately the cloud disappeared out of the cave, and a great light shone in the cave, so that the eyes could not bear it. And in a little that light gradually decreased, until the infant appeared, and went and took the breast from His mother Mary. And the midwife cried out, and said: This is a great day to me, because I have seen this strange sight. And the midwife went forth out of the cave, and Salome met her. And she said to her: Salome, Salome, I have a strange sight to relate to you: a virgin has brought forth — a thing which her nature admits not of.

*Source: https://aleteia.org/2017/12/22/the-forgotten-story-of-marys-midwife/)

 

[JLHPROF]

Interesting subject.

Quote

 It would have been strange for Joseph to be alone with Mary for the birth of Jesus. Even though Joseph had great faith in God and trusted that Jesus was to be the Messiah, men at that time weren’t trained on how to deliver a child. 

Given the way in which Mary conceived and the promise given to her I doubt there was any concerns about a difficult birth.

Add to that the record of the birth in a stable.  I don't know that a midwife was part of the event.

But all things being equal I think Joseph would have used one if circumstances allowed.

[rpn]

The latest info is that Joseph and Mary were likely in a part of their extended family's home where overflow guests shared with the animals.  (See this year's Christmas video and the Church News article on it.)  So there very well may have been someone to help, whether formally a midwife or not.

Edited December 24, 2019 by rpn

[The Nehor]

There was sometimes a midwife or, as rpn pointed out, an experienced family member who has given birth and/or who has assisted in other births.

[katherine the great]

I don't think there is any reason to think that there would not have been a midwife present--especially with a first child.

[longview]

4 hours ago, rpn said:

The latest info is that Joseph and Mary were likely in a part of their extended family's home where overflow guests shared with the animals.  (See this year's Christmas video and the Church News article on it.)  So there very well may have been someone to help, whether formally a midwife or not.

I think it was probable that Joseph and Mary did NOT travel alone but was part of a small caravan.  Their destination "INN" could have had many more guests than expected so they overflowed into auxiliary structures, such as a stable.  Plenty of candidates for acting as midwives.

[3DOP]

On 12/23/2019 at 9:08 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Merry Christmas, friends.  

I'm curious as to what you all think about Mary having a midwife. I imagine she did but I haven't read the Protovangelium of James, so...

- - - 

Midwives have been around for thousands of years and are even mentioned in the Old Testament and play a pivotal role in the story of Moses.

Then the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiph′rah and the other Pu′ah,  “When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, she shall live. But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live.” (Exodus 1:15-17)

It would have been strange for Joseph to be alone with Mary for the birth of Jesus. Even though Joseph had great faith in God and trusted that Jesus was to be the Messiah, men at that time weren’t trained on how to deliver a child. Being an honest man, Joseph would have sought out help from a local midwife, realizing his lack of knowledge in that area.

Added to this historical knowledge, an ancient text from the year 145 called The Protoevangelium of James tells the story of Mary’s midwife and another woman who assisted at the birth.

And I [Joseph] saw a woman coming down from the hill-country, and she said to me: O man, whither are you going? And I said: I am seeking an Hebrew midwife. And she answered and said to me: Are you of Israel? And I said to her: Yes. And she said: And who is it that is bringing forth in the cave? And I said: A woman betrothed to me.

And the midwife went away with him. And they stood in the place of the cave, and behold a luminous cloud overshadowed the cave. And the midwife said: My soul has been magnified this day, because my eyes have seen strange things — because salvation has been brought forth to Israel. And immediately the cloud disappeared out of the cave, and a great light shone in the cave, so that the eyes could not bear it. And in a little that light gradually decreased, until the infant appeared, and went and took the breast from His mother Mary. And the midwife cried out, and said: This is a great day to me, because I have seen this strange sight. And the midwife went forth out of the cave, and Salome met her. And she said to her: Salome, Salome, I have a strange sight to relate to you: a virgin has brought forth — a thing which her nature admits not of.

*Source: https://aleteia.org/2017/12/22/the-forgotten-story-of-marys-midwife/)

 

The teaching alludes to the Catholic teaching that Mary brought forth Christ in an apparently miraculous way, without the ordinary pains associated with childbirth. (We might ask if it might have been the norm if Adam and Eve had remained innocent). This would follow from the Catholic teaching, that as Eve, who was made in perfect innocence, so was the New Eve, Mary, in what we call the Immaculate Conception. Pain in childbirth was after the Fall of Adam and Eve, the painful reminder of Eve's fall. But Mary could be exempt from this law if she were immaculately conceived. When the midwife speaks of having seen a strange sight, that "a virgin has brought forth---a thing which her nature admits not of", she is not speaking about a virginal conception. How would she know about that anyway? It would seem that she is referring to the idea that just as this Child had been conceived in extraordinary way, so His birth occurred in an extraordinary way, not passing through the birth canal.

As a Catholic, I do not hold this story to be necessarily true, but I do hold that the story told reflects what the Church teaches. Some of the Fathers refer to Is. 66:6, 7, as well as the closed gates of Ezekiel 44:2, as being prophetic types of the painless birth of God's Son.

"Before she was in labour, she brought forth; before her time came to be delivered, she brought forth a man child. Who hath ever heard such a thing? and who hath seen the like to this?" (Is. 66:6, 7)

  

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by 3DOP

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, 3DOP said:

The teaching alludes to the Catholic teaching that Mary brought forth Christ in an apparently miraculous way, without the ordinary pains associated with childbirth. (We might ask if it might have been the norm if Adam and Eve had remained innocent). This would follow from the Catholic teaching, that as Eve, who was made in perfect innocence, so was the New Eve, Mary, in what we call the Immaculate Conception. Pain in childbirth was after the Fall of Adam and Eve, the painful reminder of Eve's fall. But Mary could be exempt from this law if she were immaculately conceived. When the midwife speaks of having seen a strange sight, that "a virgin has brought forth---a thing which her nature admits not of", she is not speaking about a virginal conception. How would she know about that anyway? It would seem that she is referring to the idea that just as this Child had been conceived in extraordinary way, so His birth occurred in an extraordinary way, not passing through the birth canal.

As a Catholic, I do not hold this story to be necessarily true, but I do hold that the story told reflects what the Church teaches. Some of the Fathers refer to Is. 66:6, 7, as well as the closed gates of Ezekiel 44:2, as being prophetic types of the painless birth of God's Son.

"Before she was in labour, she brought forth; before her time came to be delivered, she brought forth a man child. Who hath ever heard such a thing? and who hath seen the like to this?" (Is. 66:6, 7)

  

 

While I do not believe that the birth of Jesus was miraculously free of pain I do suspect childbirth in a terrestrial (or unfallen) world would be free of pain and would have commenced at some point had Adam and Eve not courageously partaken of the fruit.

[CV75]

21 hours ago, 3DOP said:

"Before she was in labour, she brought forth; before her time came to be delivered, she brought forth a man child. Who hath ever heard such a thing? and who hath seen the like to this?" (Is. 66:6, 7)

Well that settles the April vs December question... either 37 or 15 weeks early...

[alter idem]

Mary was a normal human, I'm certain that labor for her was as uncomfortable and painful as it is for any woman.  I'm also certain that in a town like Bethlehem, even if they didn't travel with relatives (which is highly unlikely), she would have had a midwife.  Considering the Mosaic laws for uncleanness and men's fears of being 'unclean', I'm certain they expected and used women for the task of childbirth and since Mary wasn't giving birth on a desert island, she would have had at least one and likely, more than one midwives or women attending the labor and delivery, which was a dangerous time for mother and child.  I think it was such a given, that they didn't even bother to write it in the accounts.

[3DOP]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Well that settles the April vs December question... either 37 or 15 weeks early...

Hi CV75. I am sorry. I don't follow your thought.

 

[CV75]

9 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Hi CV75. I am sorry. I don't follow your thought.

It was (supposed to be) a nonsensical joke... :) referencing the thread:Savior's birth - April 6 vs December 25

A December 25th birth date would be 15 weeks early and and April 6th date would be 37 weeks early.

[mrmarklin]

On 12/24/2019 at 9:39 AM, katherine the great said:

I don't think there is any reason to think that there would not have been a midwife present--especially with a first child.

The Nativity set I bought for my wife in Bethlehem four years ago had no mid wife figure included. I hope I wasn’t cheated. 

[longview]

2 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

The Nativity set I bought for my wife in Bethlehem four years ago had no mid wife figure included. I hope I wasn’t cheated. 

She was paid and dismissed.