Avatar4321 Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 On 11/22/2018 at 5:21 PM, The Nehor said: I do not see any shame attached to that. I am not sure why proselyting and preaching have become dirty words. Shame is a form of pride
Avatar4321 Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: This. Jesus' central work was calling people to repentance and then atoning for sin so that repentance would actually work. Stopping (or even de-emphasising) proselyting would essentially be an act of withholding the blessings of the Atonement. As Paul taught in Romans 10: To add a personal touch, I got to be my housemate's escort as he received his endowment in the temple today. I first took the Elders to teach him four-and-a-half years ago, and we were with him that evening as he offered his first-ever prayer and received, in answer, his first-ever revelation in the form of a vision. He ended up taking most of his lessons in my home. As many converts do, he's walked a rocky path since his baptism, but he's been living in my home for nearly a year now, and we've had so many good experiences together. I was with him, by his request, as he received his patriarchal blessing. I assisted in ordaining him an elder. And over the past few months, I got to teach him the temple prep lessons. Today was sweet in so many ways. He wept openly on a couple of occasions, and in the car afterwards he didn't want to stop talking about what he'd just experienced -- 'sacred' and 'beautiful' were his most repeated words. I lost track of how many times he said, 'Thank you for today', including in a text message as I was vacuuming my car a few minutes ago. As I said to him each time, I'm not the one to be thanked, but we need to acknowledge that we do indeed play a role in all of this. What a privilege that is! I honestly cannot imagine keeping such blessings to myself for any reason. I can’t either. It’s getting people to listen that I struggle with
Stargazer Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 10:36 PM, The Nehor said: No, but the latter is the ultimate form of the former. Helping someone is good. Showing them the route to unlimited happiness is much much better by a factor approaching infinity. When I served in the US Army, it was an infantryman, but not the "standard" type because my vision was too poor in its uncorrected state (a "grunt" who loses his glasses and can't see to shoot in the midst of a battle is useless). I could only be a mortar crewman, and my primary job was to stand off a bit from the main line of battle and lob mortar shells at the enemy, in support of the infantry. If I had been in the Air Force, my vision would have kept me from flying a jet fighter. But regardless of these things, and the fact that infantry is the ultimate expression of the Army (whose job is to take and hold ground), and that pilots are the ultimate expression of Air Force, the other specialties are just as important, and without them the grunts and the flyboys can't do their jobs. By the same token, service missionaries are the support troops of the missionary force, and are just as necessary. And to God goes the glory, anyway. Serve where you stand, and what e'er thou art, do well thy part. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 8 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: It’s getting people to listen that I struggle with I don't think it's our obligation to 'get' people to listen. It is my obligation, if I have the pearl of great price in my pocket, to let people know that I do and then live in a way that makes it clear that I'm not fibbing. 2
The Nehor Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: Shame is a form of pride I prefer the more fun forms of pride. 2
Calm Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: I prefer the more fun forms of pride. I have never understood those who wallow in shame, who appear to enjoy talking how low and degraded and worthless they are. I definitely would focus on how knowledgeable, intelligent, loving, and all around downright fantastic I am if I was going to waste that much energy on indulging in pride. 1
Thinking Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 On 11/22/2018 at 9:44 AM, Teancum said: I like that the process is becoming more formal. What I don't like is it still seems as a second rate choice for those not able to meet the rigors of proselyting. On 11/22/2018 at 10:37 AM, The Nehor said: But that is what it is.......... The stigma is alive and well.
The Nehor Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Thinking said: The stigma is alive and well. That is not stigma.
MustardSeed Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 I really honestly think stigma , shame on this topic, etc is in the eye of the beholder. I at one time felt shame that my child wasn’t going to serve a mission- then I got clear. I don’t apologize , it is what it is. I have my own thoughts and feelings on it. I think it’s great when kids go, and when they don’t, I choose not the have an opinion because I know nothing.
provoman Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 3:25 PM, Teancum said: I certainly don't think that. Did not mean to suggest you did. 1
bluebell Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/24/2018 at 5:14 PM, Calm said: I have never understood those who wallow in shame, who appear to enjoy talking how low and degraded and worthless they are. I definitely would focus on how knowledgeable, intelligent, loving, and all around downright fantastic I am if I was going to waste that much energy on indulging in pride. People like that usually say negative things about themselves so that they can manipulate people in giving them compliments. It's not always a conscious thing, but it's almost always an annoying thing. 1
The Nehor Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 27 minutes ago, bluebell said: People like that usually say negative things about themselves so that they can manipulate people in giving them compliments. It's not always a conscious thing, but it's almost always an annoying thing. The worst is when they downplay genuine compliments in order to solicit more. I shocked one guy after I complimented him for a performance. He downplayed it by explaining a minor mistake he made fishing for me to say it did not matter or something else complimentary. I shocked him a bit by agreeing that it marred the performance. It is the only way they will learn.......
bluebell Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 2 hours ago, The Nehor said: The worst is when they downplay genuine compliments in order to solicit more. I shocked one guy after I complimented him for a performance. He downplayed it by explaining a minor mistake he made fishing for me to say it did not matter or something else complimentary. I shocked him a bit by agreeing that it marred the performance. It is the only way they will learn....... 😆
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