Do you believe that Satan is our brother?

[jkwilliams]

6 minutes ago, longview said:

2 Nephi 28:  19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish;
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.
24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!
25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

Tacenda has company. I think Satan is just an excuse we make for doing wrong. We are plenty capable of evil without any help. 

[Exiled]

43 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Tacenda has company. I think Satan is just an excuse we make for doing wrong. We are plenty capable of evil without any help. 

Yes. It seems that satan is an invention by those who benefited from religious power. One always needs an "other" to rail against in order to drive the faithful to the pews.

[FunOnlineMan]

19 hours ago, pogi said:

If you continue to follow that line of reasoning, then the opposite must also be true - there must not be a God either, for the same reasons.  

Is a satan figure necessary to the plan? Isn’t he superfluous? Wouldn’t god be necessary in the plan of salvation, whereas Satan could only be a byproduct of it?

 

[Doctrine 612]

No!

In order for him to be our Brother, Satan would have to become a son God.

only those who accept Christ are Sons of God.

The scriptures use the terms of child of God in two ways. In one sense, we are all literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father. In another sense, God’s sons and daughters are those who have been born again through the Atonement of Christ.

Spirit children of the Father

    Ye are gods, children of the most High, Ps. 82:6.

    We are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.

    Be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.

    I am a son of God, Moses 1:13.

 

Children born again through the Atonement

    As many as received him gave he power to become the sons of God, John 1:12 (Rom. 8:14; 3 Ne. 9:17; D&C 11:30).

    Now are we the sons of God, 1 Jn. 3:1–2.

    You shall be called the children of Christ, his sons and his daughters, Mosiah 5:7.

    All people must be born again, becoming his sons and daughters, Mosiah 27:25.

    They shall become my sons and my daughters, Ether 3:14.

    Ye certainly will become a child of Christ, Moro. 7:19.

    All those who receive my gospel are sons and daughters, D&C 25:1.

    They are gods, even the sons of God, D&C 76:58.

    Thus may all become my sons, Moses 6:68.

    Many have believed and become the sons of God, Moses 7:1.

[Tacenda]

I remember growing up seeing or hearing about the angel and the devil on each shoulder and which I would listen to. Silly! Now I worry really not about if the devil is my brother, but if Jesus is because for what I know about EV Christians they don't believe He is our brother, but maybe that is in the literal sense or maybe they don't believe Jesus is a brother to Satan? I get it confused. But that is a topic for another thread maybe.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I remember growing up seeing or hearing about the angel and the devil on each shoulder and which I would listen to. Silly! Now I worry really not about if the devil is my brother, but if Jesus is because for what I know about EV Christians they don't believe He is our brother, but maybe that is in the literal sense or maybe they don't believe Jesus is a brother to Satan? I get it confused. But that is a topic for another thread maybe.

After all the years..I am as confused as you are.  Different spirit mothers..different mortal mothers...and the poor women can't tell us a thing!!😋

[Atheist Mormon]

Quote

Do you believe that Satan is our brother?

I'm no longer a believer but according to Mormon Doctrine that is the fact. This is another Biblical reality Christianity tried to obscure and strengthen the hand of Satan which gave a Carte Blanche to persecute & demonize people. Without Satan there would be no Inquisition or persecution of Jews....... 

[Storm Rider]

I find the logic that Satan does not exist to either be self-serving to the one's personal philosophy or the equivalent of saying it is not hot and it is not cold. It is infantile and shortsighted. The reality of God and his desire to lead us to Life Eternal recognizes that there is a counterforce - evil - that is in opposition to his plan.

The fact that so many choose evil does not declare that there is not holiness. Its only significance is that humans choose evil in the same way they choose righteousness. 

[theplains]

20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Not at all, Jim.  "Eve," like all females who take their endowments in the temple of God, performs a ritual act according to a set liturgy -- an ordinance which has cosmic significance for each  female who performs it.  All those females are "Eve," which means "the mother of all living."  The Garden is the temple of God.

Thanks Robert.

Jim

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Tacenda has company. I think Satan is just an excuse we make for doing wrong. We are plenty capable of evil without any help. 

Yes, but only if we have free agency.  In normative Judeo-Christian religion, God is the author of everything, good and evil included, and there is no free choice or free will.

[longview]

10 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said:

Is a satan figure necessary to the plan? Isn’t he superfluous? Wouldn’t god be necessary in the plan of salvation, whereas Satan could only be a byproduct of it?

 

God and Satan came from the SAME source as we ALL came from.  All of us were intelligences of varying levels of capabilities.  NONE of us had any "starting point" (there were no beginnings of beginnings).  The "current" God invited us intelligences to become spirit children.  From there the "threshing" process was on-going.  Two third parts kept their First Estate and qualified to enter the next stage of progression, namely having the experience of mortality on a fallen and degenerate world with the veil of forgetfulness placed over our minds.  The remaining third part will not gain physical bodies but continue to fight the implementation of the "Plan of Happiness" thus providing additional opposition that we need in this Second Estate.

[longview]

20 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Tacenda has company. I think Satan is just an excuse we make for doing wrong. We are plenty capable of evil without any help. 

Yes, carnal man has plenty of appetites and lusts that he will go whole hog on his own.  Thankfully, most will come to understand the consequences of their actions and choose to moderate the destructive choices.  But we all are born into the world with the Light of Christ that will help us choose good, better or best.  Satan and his hosts are working frantically to counter the noble impulses (at least make us very humdrum, misdirect from doubling that talent).

[Jeanne]

11 minutes ago, longview said:

God and Satan came from the SAME source as we ALL came from.  All of us were intelligences of varying levels of capabilities.  NONE of us had any "starting point" (there were no beginnings of beginnings).  The "current" God invited us intelligences to become spirit children.  From there the "threshing" process was on-going.  Two third parts kept their First Estate and qualified to enter the next stage of progression, namely having the experience of mortality on a fallen and degenerate world with the veil of forgetfulness placed over our minds.  The remaining third part will not gain physical bodies but continue to fight the implementation of the "Plan of Happiness" thus providing additional opposition that we need in this Second Estate.

This sounds like the third in opposition...was planned in order for the plan to work.  Why is it that those things in opposition are part of a plan...if they can't be reconciled at the end?  There must be a chance for the third to redeem themselves...somehow..?????? What to do if you might have loved your brother Lucifer...but hated his plan..?

We do not know that we were friends there ...or met and whatever...we don't know anything..other that the mormon plan of salvation..and the process therein.  But what if when we chose to go with Jehovah and his plan..we still cared about Lucifer and that our Father shut him out..how sad we MIGHT have been.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jeanne

[longview]

12 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This sounds like the third in opposition...was planned in order for the plan to work.  Why is it that those things in opposition are part of a plan...if they can't be reconciled at the end?  There must be a chance for the third to redeem themselves...somehow..??????

Lehi had a good answer for that:  2 Nephi 2:11 "For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility."

It is not like a certain segment of the intelligences were "condemned" to be "opposers."   Opposition in mortality is very necessary even for the so-called righteous that need to struggle and learn from their mistakes and successes.  Opposition stretches and expands our understanding and our acquisition of more and more capabilities.  2 Nephi 28:30 "For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have."

Not all will want to be redeemed.   Everyone will have gone through a "threshing" process of making their own choices.  Some will stand in the Celestial Kingdom and decide they are NOT comfortable being there.  They will choose to exist in the Telestial Kingdom or wherever they feel inclined.  In any case, ALL will have greater endowments than what they were as intelligences before becoming spirit children.

[Atheist Mormon]

2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I find the logic that Satan does not exist to either be self-serving to the one's personal philosophy or the equivalent of saying it is not hot and it is not cold. It is infantile and shortsighted. The reality of God and his desire to lead us to Life Eternal recognizes that there is a counterforce - evil - that is in opposition to his plan.

The fact that so many choose evil does not declare that there is not holiness. Its only significance is that humans choose evil in the same way they choose righteousness. 

Leaving logic/self serving aside.....what is more infantile & shortsighted than believing an imaginary entity called Satan? "The reality of God and his desire to lead" is an imagination supported by your thought process not reality.....

[Unaffiliated]

13 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Leaving logic/self serving aside.....what is more infantile & shortsighted than believing an imaginary entity called Satan? "The reality of God and his desire to lead" is an imagination supported by your thought process not reality.....

Prove what you say.

[Storm Rider]

25 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Leaving logic/self serving aside.....what is more infantile & shortsighted than believing an imaginary entity called Satan? "The reality of God and his desire to lead" is an imagination supported by your thought process not reality.....

LOL, this is a discussion that can go round and round. An atheist is not going to concede any points in a spiritual discussion and a disciple of Jesus Christ is not going to concede any points to an atheist - the only product is we both accept to disagree.

You continue to believe in that arm of flesh and I will continue to believe in that old man in the sky.

[Atheist Mormon]

1 hour ago, Unaffiliated said:

Prove what you say.

LoL.....How can prove existence Unicorns (i.e. doesn't exist?). Writing this I am not not at all disrespecting your beliefs......

[Unaffiliated]

1 minute ago, Atheist Mormon said:

LoL.....How can prove existence Unicorns (i.e. doesn't exist?). Writing this I am not not at all disrespecting your beliefs......

You seem to be disrespecting beliefs from your posts and username.

[Atheist Mormon]

35 minutes ago, Unaffiliated said:

You seem to be disrespecting beliefs from your posts and username.

not at all....you are not paying attention.

 

[Unaffiliated]

10 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

not at all....you are not paying attention.

 

Oh I've been a lurker here for awhile before I joined and your posts are always trying to stir the pot and with a username like you have it just further makes obvious you are just trolling on this board.

[california boy]

Thank goodness Satan got so mad at God for not accepting his ideas that he is willing to fight God for eternity.  Even more amazing is that 1/3 of the hosts of heaven are all working tirelessly day and night to make Satan more powerful.  What they are actually getting out of is seems to be a bit unclear.  Talk about holding a grudge.  Wow.  

What I can't figure out is who tempted Satan to plan this rebellion against God.  And was this the very first evil thing Satan did?  Was he this superstar spirit for who knows how long and then suddenly one day, he wakes up and has one bad day that throws him into this tailspin to make him do evil for the rest of eternity?  So you also have to ask the question "Who is tempting Satan to do evil now?  If he is doing evil all on his own without someone tempting him, why is it not possible that we are doing the same thing, doing evil all on our own without someone tempting us?  

Edited July 22, 2018 by california boy

[Unaffiliated]

14 minutes ago, california boy said:

Thank goodness Satan got so mad at God for not accepting his ideas that he is willing to fight God for eternity.  Even more amazing is that 1/3 of the hosts of heaven are all working tirelessly day and night to make Satan more powerful.  What they are actually getting out of is seems to be a bit unclear.  Talk about holding a grudge.  Wow.  

What I can't figure out is who tempted Satan to plan this rebellion against God.  And was this the very first evil thing Satan did?  Was he this superstar spirit for who knows how long and then suddenly one day, he wakes up and has one bad day that throws him into this tailspin to make him do evil for the rest of eternity?  So you also have to ask the question "Who is tempting Satan to do evil now?  If he is doing evil all on his own without someone tempting him, why is it not possible that we are doing the same thing, doing evil all on our own without someone tempting us?  

We will find out when we die.

[california boy]

12 minutes ago, Unaffiliated said:

We will find out when we die.

What will we find out?  Who has been tempting Satan for all of these years?  How many possibilities are there?

[Unaffiliated]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

What will we find out?  Who has been tempting Satan for all of these years?  How many possibilities are there?

You just have to wait.