What is pure knowledge?

[Avatar4321]

D&C 121:42 discusses the use of pure knowledge in exercising priesthood power and influence.

so what is pure knowledge? On the same line, what is impure knowledge?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Avatar4321

[Jeanne]

😊First of all...a question to your post...do you need priesthood powers for pure knowledge??

[Josh Khinder]

Quote

 

Only three members of The Godhead would have pure knowledge , Jesus being the one with Melchezedek Priesthood authority, The Book of Mormon and Bible teach he is the only one with that authority.  

[theplains]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

D&C 121:42 discusses the use of pure knowledge in exercising priesthood power and influence.

so what is pure knowledge? On the same line, what is impure knowledge?

Pure knowledge is knowledge that has not been corrupted with error. 

I don't agree with verse 36:  "... the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven,
and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

I would say the powers of heaven are controlled and handled only upon the principles of righteousness (of
Christ's righteousness).  

Jim 

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

😊First of all...a question to your post...do you need priesthood powers for pure knowledge??

These verses suggest the converse. Pure knowledge is necessary to obtain priesthood power.

 

Though I can see how exercising priesthood can lead to greater knowledge 

[Avatar4321]

12 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Only three members of The Godhead would have pure knowledge , Jesus being the one with Melchezedek Priesthood authority, The Book of Mormon and Bible teach he is the only one with that authority.  

Can you elaborate? I’m not understanding you

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

D&C 121:42 discusses the use of pure knowledge in exercising priesthood power and influence.

so what is pure knowledge? On the same line, what is impure knowledge?

If verse 33 is any indication, I think impure knowledge would be knowledge that is stagnant or unused, lacking power and influence for charitable applications (verse 41). This is why we must keep moving forward in faith and knowledge.

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, theplains said:

Pure knowledge is knowledge that has not been corrupted with error. 

I don't agree with verse 36:  "... the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven,
and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

I would say the powers of heaven are controlled and handled only upon the principles of righteousness (of
Christ's righteousness).  

Jim 

Pure knowledge (along with the faith which leads to it, and all other Christlike attributes) is a principle of righteousness.

[Josh Khinder]

3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Can you elaborate? I’m not understanding you

You can find know one holding the Melchezedek Priesthood other than Jesus in the Bible and The Book of Mormon .

 

 

[Glenn101]

5 hours ago, Jeanne said:

😊First of all...a question to your post...do you need priesthood powers for pure knowledge??

It is my understanding that pure knowledge is that which is obtained through the operation of the Holy Ghost and while priesthood powers are not needed to obtain that pure knowledge, it is essential to correct, righteous use of those powers.

Glenn

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

It is my understanding that pure knowledge is that which is obtained through the operation of the Holy Ghost and while priesthood powers are not needed to obtain that pure knowledge, it is essential to correct, righteous use of those powers.

Glenn

Thanks...I wasn't being snarky but needed to know how it is understood within those priesthood powers.  Thank you.

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Only three members of The Godhead would have pure knowledge , Jesus being the one with Melchezedek Priesthood authority, The Book of Mormon and Bible teach he is the only one with that authority.  

How would you define “the high priesthood after (or of) the holy order of God (or of the Son of God”)?

[Bernard Gui]

I have received several pieces of pure knowledge from God. They are solid rocks of revealed knowledge that stand independent of and above all other things I know through earthly study. I’m sure that I am not alone in this. 

[mfbukowski]

13 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

D&C 121:42 discusses the use of pure knowledge in exercising priesthood power and influence.

so what is pure knowledge? On the same line, what is impure knowledge?

Direct, non-verbal, spiritual interaction.

Hebrew "yada".  Non "intellectual" knowledge, but to "grok".

Edited July 15, 2018 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

You can find know one holding the Melchezedek Priesthood other than Jesus in the Bible and The Book of Mormon .

 

 

Oh Gosh

Melchizadek.  And where did HE get it?

And Abraham paid him tithes?  Why would he do that?  Clearly Abraham was his follower.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Edited July 15, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Josh Khinder]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

How would you define “the high priesthood after (or of) the holy order of God (or of the Son of God”)?

It's described in Hebrews chapter 7 as Jesus' priesthood only attributed to Jesus himself 

 

 

[Josh Khinder]

😄

Melchizedek was the pre-incarnate JESUS 

 

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalmon.blogspot.com/2017/04/melchizedek-was-jesus-before-incarnation.html

[clarkgoble]

14 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

D&C 121:42 discusses the use of pure knowledge in exercising priesthood power and influence.

so what is pure knowledge? On the same line, what is impure knowledge?

It's a platonic term related to what's called Divine Illumination Theory. While non-platonists held to the theory it was popularized by Augustine until around the 13th century when various criticisms were seen as devastating to the theory. The theory persisted particularly with the rise in various circles during the Renaissance of platonism and then it's repopularization with the Cambridge Platonists and later the variants Emerson adopted. The SEP has a good entry on Divine Illumination worth reading. Although I should note the focus is philosophy there and not the religious or mystical conceptions let alone those tied in with esoteric movements like masonry, cabalism or hermeticism. Within the D&C the language is most likely neoplatonic - possibly influenced by translations by Thomas  Taylor. (I haven't check to see if that term is in his translations of Plato, Iamblichus or other platonists - but it's a common enough term that I'd expect it is) Plato, you might recall, held to the real world being an intellectual world of pure forms. So pure knowledge is that world given to humans when they know anything. Usually a light metaphor is used in such discussions, which is what D&C 93 uses. 

I'm rather skeptical anything platonic is actually intended by Joseph. I think it's an artifact of the rhetoric used. Still one should read D&C 93, 88 and other texts like this verse with an awareness of neoplatonism. Particularly the more Renaissance form it took in the esoteric tradition that affected masonry and may have affected Joseph Smith. But clearly there's a lot of speculation in all that even if the parallels are strong enough so as to be difficult to dismiss.  The question is whether this is just rhetorical borrowing or something more. I'm extremely skeptical of most platonisms so I tend to favor rhetoric but others disagree. I think Nibley, for instance, was fairly platonic in his ontology for instance. (This comes out particularly in his book The Ancient State) Nibley held to a kind of illumination theory himself although he never really presented it in a systematic fashion.

Edit: the term is found in Taylor's translation of the Phaedo where Socrates says, "Because of this, lovers of wisdom, if they would have pure knowledge of anything, must be free of the body, and the soul in itself must behold all things in themselves."

Edited July 15, 2018 by clarkgoble

[Josh Khinder]

19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh Gosh

Melchizadek.  And where did HE get it?

And Abraham paid him tithes?  Why would he do that?  Clearly Abraham was his follower.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

The Royal Priesthood is the priesthood of all believers, not exclusive of genders or races, and doesn't sound anything near Mormonism.   

[mfbukowski]

14 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

😄

Melchizedek was the pre-incarnate JESUS 

 

http://thetruthaboutmormonism-creeksalmon.blogspot.com/2017/04/melchizedek-was-jesus-before-incarnation.html

 

Oh my gosh.

Says an anti-Mormon site on which the writer cannot even speak grammatical English.  Great credibility

Quote

 

Of course Jesus said he seen Abraham and Melchizedek did see Abraham. 

 

I don't even know what that sentence means or the logic.  Because Jesus saw Abraham, that means Melchizedek IS Jesus?   Pure brilliance. 

Of course that that totally violates Mormon beliefs and has no basis in Mormonism, but who cares?  It is what someone who knows nothing about Mormonism says and it's on the internet so it must be true!!

Stunning, just stunning.

I should know better than respond

Edited July 15, 2018 by mfbukowski

[FunOnlineMan]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have received several pieces of pure knowledge from God. They are solid rocks of revealed knowledge that stand independent of and above all other things I know through earthly study. I’m sure that I am not alone in this. 

Do you mean these pieces of pure knowledge are spiritual in nature? As in, your studies of spiritual matters cannot compare to the revealed knowledge those issues? Or do you mean you’ve received more temporal pieces of pure knowledge—like scientific or mathematical truths, etc.?

[Maidservant]

20 hours ago, theplains said:

 don't agree with verse 36:  "... the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven,
and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

I would say the powers of heaven are controlled and handled only upon the principles of righteousness (of
Christ's righteousness).  

Jim 

That is what the verse says and means, it is simply done in an older grammatical style (i.e. there needs to be a comma or dash between 'handled' and 'only'). 

The powers of heaven can only be controlled upon principles of righteousness, not simply by being ordained.  That is the meaning of the entire passage (surrounding verses also)

[pogi]

10 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

😄

Melchizedek was the pre-incarnate JESUS 

You are a sola-scripture believer right?

Please show me where it says that in the Bible. 

[mfbukowski]

On 7/14/2018 at 11:40 AM, theplains said:

Pure knowledge is knowledge that has not been corrupted with error. 

I don't agree with verse 36:  "... the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven,
and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness."

I would say the powers of heaven are controlled and handled only upon the principles of righteousness (of
Christ's righteousness).  

Jim 

Yes that is what it is saying

Notice your sentence is the same as the quoted one if you drop your parenthesis- OR keep your parenthesis.

[USU78]

15 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Direct, non-verbal, spiritual interaction.

Hebrew "yada".  Non "intellectual" knowledge, but to "grok".

Grok was defined as drinking, enjoying, communing. It is thus very sacramental.

Good choice.