New Ministering w/youth

[bsjkki]

Question...so, the young men and young women are now supposed to be in ministering partnerships and minister to others. We also have a new two deep policy for all youth organizations from primary to youth activites. Our stake has recommended that no youth be one on one with a leader not their parent in church activities including transportation. We do not need two leaders in a car full of youth but they should never be one on one. I have an abundance of daughters and they are assigning my 14-year-old to partner with another sister in the ward. How are these two policies going to mesh? My home teachers used to be a youth and adult man not his father. They would travel together and home teach at my home but this seems like it would be no longer be acceptable. Am I going to have to drive my daughter to her ministering assignments? I think it would be easier to be a have family assignments. 

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Question...so, the young men and young women are now supposed to be in ministering partnerships and minister to others. We also have a new two deep policy for all youth organizations from primary to youth activites. Our stake has recommended that no youth be one on one with a leader not their parent in church activities including transportation. We do not need two leaders in a car full of youth but they should never be one on one. I have an abundance of daughters and they are assigning my 14-year-old to partner with another sister in the ward. How are these two policies going to mesh? My home teachers used to be a youth and adult man not his father. They would travel together and home teach at my home but this seems like it would be no longer be acceptable. Am I going to have to drive my daughter to her ministering assignments? I think it would be easier to be a have family assignments. 

The two deep policy applies to adults teaching youth and children in a church setting as well as activities.  There is nothing in the policy in regards to ministering visits. 

[cinepro]

If they were assigning young men as home teaching companions to men that aren't their dad, that is a massive gap in the Church's efforts to reduce the potential for abuse.

Edited June 18, 2018 by cinepro

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The two deep policy applies to adults teaching youth and children in a church setting as well as activities.  There is nothing in the policy in regards to ministering visits. 

Are we protecting the youth or not? This makes no sense. 

[bsjkki]

6 minutes ago, cinepro said:

If they are assigning young men as home teaching companions to men that aren't their dad, that is a massive gap in the Church's efforts to reduce the potential for abuse.

I called the RS President back and told her I want to keep my daughter with me. I feel better about that. 

[ksfisher]

18 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Are we protecting the youth or not? This makes no sense. 

I'm just pointing out what the policy covers. 

I don't think it makes sense to try and insulate children from everything.

I personally feel that my wife and I have taught our children what is wrong and what is right, and I trust them to handle situations appropriately.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ksfisher

[Danzo]

I think that efforts to put children in a bubble damage children more than help them.

At a certain point you just have to let go.

The two deep program for all youth is adult protection more than youth protection. 

[ksfisher]

44 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I called the RS President back and told her I want to keep my daughter with me. I feel better about that. 

Are there not certain sisters in your ward that you would feel comfortable with you daughter serving with?  Perhaps this could be a broader conversation between you and the RS president.

I do agree that you have the right to give input on who your daughter serves with.  In the past I've even said that I didn't want one of my sons visiting a certain individual along with me.

[bsjkki]

45 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Are there not certain sisters in your ward that you would feel comfortable with you daughter serving with? 

This is not a basis for a worldwide church's policy on preventing abuse. The new abuse policy takes 'feelings' out of the equation. Most abusers are friends or family that people are comfortable with and expert manipulators. I have no issue with the sister assigned to teach with my child but I knew my child was not ready for this. I talked with her and she wasn't. Maybe when she is 16 or 17 and can drive but she is 14. 

 

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

If they were assigning young men as home teaching companions to men that aren't their dad, that is a massive gap in the Church's efforts to reduce the potential for abuse.

I agree with this sentiment..it is a massive gap in the abuse policy.

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

I personally feel that my wife and I have taught our children what is wrong and what is right, and I trust them to handle situations appropriately.

Just so I'm clear, is it your understanding that children who are abused weren't taught "what is wrong and what is right", and they just didn't know how to "handle situations appropriately"?

 

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Just so I'm clear, is it your understanding that children who are abused weren't taught "what is wrong and what is right", and they just didn't know how to "handle situations appropriately"?

 

That's not what I said at all.  I was talking about what I feel in regards to my children.  I'm not speaking to anything beyond that.

[bsjkki]

57 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

That's not what I said at all.  I was talking about what I feel in regards to my children.  I'm not speaking to anything beyond that.

When forming an abuse prevention policy for a worldwide church, what individuals teach their children or how they feel their children would react to predators is irrelevant. Pairing a youth with an adult non-relative for frequent, long term contact is not wise policy. It seems inconsistent with the new abuse policy. 

[HappyJackWagon]

Those two policies aren't going to mesh. Either they haven't really given this adequate consideration or they've decided one on one time for ministering is worth the risk.

I'm truly hoping they haven't given it enough thought, because it is absurd to take a risk like that. One on one, in a car with a non-family adult seems to be a much riskier situation than one teacher in a classroom of children. Neither is appropriate in today's climate, not is it in accordance with the church's own protection policy.

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

what individuals teach their children or how they feel their children would react to predators is irrelevant

Again, I was speaking to nothing beyond what I feel about my own children.

 

8 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Pairing a youth with an adult non-relative for frequent, long term contact is not wise policy.

In my case I did not grow up with a father who was active in the church.  I learned a lot from my home teaching companion.  It was a great experience.

[bsjkki]

9 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

In my case I did not grow up with a father who was active in the church.  I learned a lot from my home teaching companion.  It was a great experience.

It is sad that the current policies are necessary. One and one discussions with youth leaders for advice and counsel have long happened and I'm sure these new policies could hinder these relationship going forward. 

[bsjkki]

I found some guidance on this topic. https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering-additional-faq?lang=eng

13: Can young men and young women be assigned to minister with adult companions?

Yes. The guidelines in the recent document “Preventing and Responding to Abuse” allow for ministering companionships with youth assigned as companions to adults. “Ministering” is not considered an “activity” or “class,” as referred to in those guidelines.

Leaders should use inspired judgment when assigning youth as ministering companions. Adult companions should avoid situations that might be misunderstood. They should exercise care regarding isolated one-on-one situations so that youth have a safe and rewarding experience with ministering. Additionally, wisdom should be exercised in not assigning youth to difficult home or family situations.

I find the comment, " "ministering" is not considered an "activity" or "class," as referred to in those guidelines" to seem like a loophole in the "abuse" policy. The answer seems to imply youth should not be placed in one-on-one situations but this statement is not well defined. One of the families my daughter would have taught would also be in the category of "difficult home or family situations." The wife is actively struggling with her testimony and not attending church. I think it would be better for this situation to be handled by adults. I think if the youth have their own transportation, ministering with other adults could work very well but the advice against one-on-one situations is good. 
 

Question 14 asks about whether all the Mia Maids, Laurels, Teachers and Priests should be Ministering companions and the answer for that was a "no." They are supposed to counsel with parents and leaders and determine if the child can and is willing first.

Edited June 19, 2018 by bsjkki

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 hours ago, cinepro said:

If they were assigning young men as home teaching companions to men that aren't their dad, that is a massive gap in the Church's efforts to reduce the potential for abuse.

If we only assigned young men in our ward to be companions to their fathers, most of our young men would have zero experience in home teaching/ministering before turning 18.

[Storm Rider]

For those individuals who have had their innocence ripped from them, they will react differently to these types of situations. For those with no first hand or family experience with abuse, innocence continues to exist and they are more willing to engage in social situations that may cause the first group to sense a high degree of comfort.

One of our grandchildren, when first born, the parents dreamed of having a child that was curious and interested in exploring the world. However, I have noticed they are raising this child to be fearful of all strange situations and to not take risks of any kind. I think the modern term is hovering or helicopter parenting. Given the dangers in the world of today - or at least the perception of such - I cannot easily counsel against their style of parenting and how it conflicts with their stated desires when the child was born. 

I am sorry for those youths who grow up with a constant fear that all strangers are out to abuse or attack them. I feel sorry for youths that don't know the simple pleasure of going outdoors to play with their friends without the need to first being slathered in bug spray, sun block, and cautioned to not go out of sight of the front door as their mother hovers over their every move terrified should they fall down or seek to jump off of anything higher than a foot off the ground. For too many children there is a loss of innocence because of our perceptions of the world and not the reality. 

One last story to further illustrate my point:  when our daughter was about four or five we were visiting my cousin who lives on a 100-acre ranch on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington. We were walking out in the field in the valley behind their home and our daughter asked my cousin, "Can I really just yell as loud as I want?"  "She said sure" - our daughter spent the next fifteen minutes periodically yelling at the top of her lungs as she ran about the field. She felt completely free from needing to use an inside voice - we lived in a condominium complex.  We were grateful that she felt that freedom rather than the restrictive way she lived at home. 

[juliann]

This is going to depend on ward leaders. We have only discussed mothers and daughters as partners. I have not had one situation where I asked for a personal change that it didn’t happen so I think worry is unwarranted. It is so hard to get everyone matched up and ministering that any leader worth their salt is going to be grateful for recommendations and suggestions. But this is a work in progress. We are on our third meeting and still don’t have it nailed down. 

[Tacenda]

Hopefully not off topic here. But what if I've never been approached about becoming a minister with someone. In a former life it would be, why haven't I been asked if I want to become a visiting teacher? I don't remember a time in my life in the church of not being asked that, in the different wards I've belonged to. I moved to this ward in January and nothing has been said to me. I even asked about a calling in the compassionate service area of the church and then was set apart for it, and have only been asked once to get a hold of someone and ask if they needed anything. Anyone know?

[Storm Rider]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hopefully not off topic here. But what if I've never been approached about becoming a minister with someone. In a former life it would be, why haven't I been asked if I want to become a visiting teacher? I don't remember a time in my life in the church of not being asked that, in the different wards I've belonged to. I moved to this ward in January and nothing has been said to me. I even asked about a calling in the compassionate service area of the church and then was set apart for it, and have only been asked once to get a hold of someone and ask if they needed anything. Anyone know?

Hello Tacenda,

Each ward has their own unique character. There are always little idiosyncrasies that belong to each ward that result for the individuals that create the ward family.  

I have learned that the old saying is true - there are three kinds of people: those who sit around and wait for something to happen, those who make something happen, and those who ask what happened.  In your situation, it seems to me the calling fits you wonderfully.  Don't wait for direction, rather meet everyone in the ward and anticipate needs and then inform the RS president what you are doing and is there anyone else that needs service. I wish we had more individuals in the ward that just did little things for everyone - send a postcard, sent get well card, a birthday card, send flowers from your garden or the garden of another member that wants to assist.  I don't know if one person that has a perfect life and does not need a helping, compassionate hand of love. There are those who express their needs easily and often, but the majority don't do that yet they stand in need of more love, more acceptance, more hope. 

[bluebell]

23 hours ago, bsjkki said:

This is not a basis for a worldwide church's policy on preventing abuse. The new abuse policy takes 'feelings' out of the equation. Most abusers are friends or family that people are comfortable with and expert manipulators. I have no issue with the sister assigned to teach with my child but I knew my child was not ready for this. I talked with her and she wasn't. Maybe when she is 16 or 17 and can drive but she is 14. 

 

I agree with this sentiment..it is a massive gap in the abuse policy.

 I thought it was just Priests and Laurels who were supposed to go out ministering.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hopefully not off topic here. But what if I've never been approached about becoming a minister with someone. In a former life it would be, why haven't I been asked if I want to become a visiting teacher? I don't remember a time in my life in the church of not being asked that, in the different wards I've belonged to. I moved to this ward in January and nothing has been said to me. I even asked about a calling in the compassionate service area of the church and then was set apart for it, and have only been asked once to get a hold of someone and ask if they needed anything. Anyone know?

This would be a perfect question for your RS president.  

[ksfisher]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 I thought it was just Priests and Laurels who were supposed to go out ministering.

From the FAQ

"Leaders may choose to assign Laurels and Mia Maids as companions to Relief Society sisters, as priests and teachers are now assigned as companions to Melchizedek Priesthood holders. Youth share their unique gifts and grow spiritually as they serve alongside adults in the work of salvation and as they counsel about that service in ministering interviews. In addition, involving youth in ministering assignments increases the reach of caring for others by increasing the number of members who participate. It may also simplify and strengthen these efforts within families as mothers and daughters—and fathers and sons—serve together."

https://www.lds.org/mycalling/ministering-faq?lang=eng

Teachers have always been part of home teaching.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello Tacenda,

Each ward has their own unique character. There are always little idiosyncrasies that belong to each ward that result for the individuals that create the ward family.  

I have learned that the old saying is true - there are three kinds of people: those who sit around and wait for something to happen, those who make something happen, and those who ask what happened.  In your situation, it seems to me the calling fits you wonderfully.  Don't wait for direction, rather meet everyone in the ward and anticipate needs and then inform the RS president what you are doing and is there anyone else that needs service. I wish we had more individuals in the ward that just did little things for everyone - send a postcard, sent get well card, a birthday card, send flowers from your garden or the garden of another member that wants to assist.  I don't know if one person that has a perfect life and does not need a helping, compassionate hand of love. There are those who express their needs easily and often, but the majority don't do that yet they stand in need of more love, more acceptance, more hope. 

 

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

This would be a perfect question for your RS president.  

I keep thinking it's because I came out to the bishop. I believe the church really wants to leave people like me out, and hope we go away. But I will text the RS president and see what she says. If that doesn't pan out, I'm going church shopping, or am looking into volunteering in the community some more. ETA: My RS pres. texted back. She was surprised I hadn't been contacted. Apparently I have a partner and I have three ladies that I was supposed to be ministering to.🙄

Edited June 19, 2018 by Tacenda