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LDS Church gets beat on medical marijuana


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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

So if there came a day that your only hope is CBD oil or even if you had to smoke it, would you want someone denying you it because it wasn't sold in a pharmacy requiring a dr's okay? What about supplements? There are many that are harmful and possibly deadly that are sold on the market. 

Anything that is claimed to be medicine should be treated like medicine. Period.  The argument from pity was one of the major arguments used here in Washington used to legalize its production and sale. What if your grandmother was suffering from.....? That’s fine, but it is not a reason to legalize a dangerous substance. Once medical use was approved, the real issue was pursued....recreational use.

 It was not presented as an herb to be sold in supplement shops, but as legitimate medicine, hence the term “medical” marijuana and the sham requirement for a physician’s note. 

I have consistently said I have absolutely no problem with legitimate use of scientific medical uses of substances that are found in pot or anything else (like ****roaches) regardless how long it takes to prove efficacy and safety. 

I want an immediate cure for my cluster headaches, but I want it to be effective and supervised by a pharmacist and a physician. So far, it hasn’t come along.

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34 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

OK. With this attitude, I don’t feel much of a desire to answer at all. But if we can get past what you think my shortcomings are, the claims that I was referring to were like those relating to glaucoma, Jesus healing blind men with pot oil, nose sprays, and the myriad of ills pot is claimed to cure. THOSE are the claims I was referring to. Rather than question my integrity, why not simply ask for clarification?

Who claimed Jesus healed the blind men wit pot oil???  Is all I said is that there was SPECULATION that pot oil MAY HAVE been used according to SOME scholars.  They were SPECULATING, NOT CLAIMING.  And I gave the scripture that they used to make their speculation.  

34 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

As for your second question, those, among others, are things the pro-pot side promised when we in Washington were debating legalization. Their promises have not been kept. 

Once again, that is not what I asked.  But since you want to answer the question this way, I would love to see where all of those were claimed officially by those supporting medical marijuana in Washington.  So CFR on your claim.  

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

The bold in your statement would sure be helpful to me. Instead I'd have to pack my van and drive and live in Oregon or Colorado in order to have a plant of cannabis. How would it be to just grow my own and eat it fresh and treat my pre-Alzheimer's. Since reading either from you or someone else that it would be very beneficial and no high! 

You do realize that depends on the strain right? and when and what part you eat. You definitely can get high by eating high THC strains when they are flowering. However, if you eat a bit of ACDC, you would get the benefits without the high, unless your eat a lot of it. Right now, I believe growing your own would violate Utah law, but am not positive. It would probably violate Federal law if you try to sell it , at least when its THC level rises above .35%.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2017/12/28/sales-of-cbd-oil-in-utah-leads-to-a-state-investigation-and-at-least-one-seizure/

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Rep. Brad Daw, R-Orem... said state law allows only for people with an epilepsy diagnosis or as part of a study program to legally possess the product.

 

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2 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

You do realize that depends on the strain right? and when and what part you eat. You definitely can get high by eating high THC strains when they are flowering. However, if you eat a bit of ACDC, you would get the benefits without the high, unless your eat a lot of it. Right now, I believe growing your own would violate Utah law, but am not positive. It would probably violate Federal law if you try to sell it , at least when its THC level rises above .35%.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2017/12/28/sales-of-cbd-oil-in-utah-leads-to-a-state-investigation-and-at-least-one-seizure/

 

The bolded portion is incorrect.  "High THC strains" are actually high THCA plants.  In the drying and curing of the flowers,  a small portion of the THCA is converted to THC. The vast majority of of THCA conversion to THC occurs during heating. Fresh plant material of "high THC strains" contains virtually no THC.....dried flowers only a little bit.  Decarboxylation is required to get the THC 'high'.

Tacenda is referring to using Cannabis for Alzheimer's.  I believe the cannabinoid profile for ACDC might not be the best.  The ratios are off based on the research I've seen.  She is smart in her attempt to consult with Dr. Welk.

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33 minutes ago, cacheman said:

The bolded portion is incorrect.  "High THC strains" are actually high THCA plants.  In the drying and curing of the flowers,  a small portion of the THCA is converted to THC. The vast majority of of THCA conversion to THC occurs during heating. Fresh plant material of "high THC strains" contains virtually no THC.....dried flowers only a little bit.  Decarboxylation is required to get the THC 'high'.

Tacenda is referring to using Cannabis for Alzheimer's.  I believe the cannabinoid profile for ACDC might not be the best.  The ratios are off based on the research I've seen.  She is smart in her attempt to consult with Dr. Welk.

You are incorrect. You definitely can get high by eating even raw weed, although I was really referring to dried pot in the flowering stage. However, you will have to eat more raw weed, than the dried or cooked weed. The body will convert a small amount of THCa into THC. Reports indicate you have to eat at least 8 times more than when its cooked or decarboxylated. Further, raw weed will probably irritate your stomach because of its spiky hairs and trichomes. However, if you for example eat raw CBD strain like ACDC, you will probably run out of stomach room before you got high. Either way, it would be an unpleasant experience as it seems people find the taste nasty. 

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22 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

You are incorrect. You definitely can get high by eating even raw weed, although I was really referring to dried pot in the flowering stage. However, you will have to eat more raw weed, than the dried or cooked weed. The body will convert a small amount of THCa into THC. Reports indicate you have to eat at least 8 times more than when its cooked or decarboxylated. Further, raw weed will probably irritate your stomach because of its spiky hairs and trichomes.

You forgot to cite your source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/stuffstonerslike.com/can-you-eat-weed/amp/

BTW: I stand by what I said.  It's based on actual research and experience. 

 

Edited by cacheman
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12 minutes ago, cacheman said:

You forgot to cite your source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/stuffstonerslike.com/can-you-eat-weed/amp/

BTW: I stand by what I said.  It's based on actual research and experience. 

I am not a researcher, but let's just say I know some people - one who is growing it now - and I recall him saying you can get high eating some strains raw. 

There are a number of sources on the internet as well that disagree with you. Just a few other sources which say, yes you can get high with even raw cannabis:

http://maryjanesdiary.com/can-you-eat-raw-weed-get-high/

http://weedshome.com/get-high-eating-weed

i did find a suggestion for those interested in their own CBD strains to juice it raw. This allows one to get the CBDs, vitamins and minerals without all the fiber, and to mix it with stuff to make it tastier.

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1 hour ago, cacheman said:

You forgot to cite your source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/stuffstonerslike.com/can-you-eat-weed/amp/

BTW: I stand by what I said.  It's based on actual research and experience. 

 

This is more what I was thinking raw cannabis would look like, not the dried stuff, which looks awful. It'd be nice to just throw some of these leaves in with lettuce and dressing. https://herb.co/marijuana/news/cannabis-salad

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3 hours ago, california boy said:

Who claimed Jesus healed the blind men wit pot oil???  Is all I said is that there was SPECULATION that pot oil MAY HAVE been used according to SOME scholars.  They were SPECULATING, NOT CLAIMING.  And I gave the scripture that they used to make their speculation.  

Once again, that is not what I asked.  But since you want to answer the question this way, I would love to see where all of those were claimed officially by those supporting medical marijuana in Washington.  So CFR on your claim.  

Speculation, claim. Same difference. You used it and I quoted the rest of the scripture  - just a few verses later - that forbade the use of that anointing oil for any purpose except the anointing of Levitical priests, and condemned anyone who did. Plus I pointed out that Jesus never used any oil to heal anyone. Your scholars are incompetent.

No, I’m not playing your puerile game. I was there, I participated, I read and heard the debates, I went to the county council meeting, I voted, I live with the results - including a pot growing, processing, and distribution facility being built in my residential neighborhood, despite the protests of 50 neighbors and much less than the required 1000 feet away from a youth sports center and school property, which is against the law, but has been permitted anyway. I have had an illegal billboard removed from the street in front of the main entrance to a local high school. If my word is not sufficient, so be it. Look it up yourself. I-don’t-care. Report me if you wish. I seem to have succumbed to the spirit of contention now, so maybe I can be removed.

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1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

I am not a researcher, but let's just say I know some people - one who is growing it now - and I recall him saying you can get high eating some strains raw. 

There are a number of sources on the internet as well that disagree with you. Just a few other sources which say, yes you can get high with even raw cannabis:

http://maryjanesdiary.com/can-you-eat-raw-weed-get-high/

http://weedshome.com/get-high-eating-weed

i did find a suggestion for those interested in their own CBD strains to juice it raw. This allows one to get the CBDs, vitamins and minerals without all the fiber, and to mix it with stuff to make it tastier.

Which is why source wars on pot studies are pointless. I won’t engage in them any more.

One thing I learned from my many decades as an educator is that one can usually find a study that supports just about any position one takes or refutes the position another takes.

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Just thought I'd share the response from Dr. Wenk!

My email to him:

Hello Dr. Wenk,

I recently read and watched a Ted talk about the subject matter. I have a question...since smoking is undesirable to me, could a nasal spray work as well, or a patch?
 
My mother had early onset Alzheimer's, she started showing signs at age 62. I am 56 and am really obsessed about it, and want to prevent it from happening. 
 
What do you recommend, and also, I did have a cognitive test done a few months ago and I scored on the low end. 
 
Thanks for your time!
 
His response to me:
Dear Ms (deleted),
Thank you for writing. It's good to be proactive if you feel as though you are at risk. AD is often transmitted via the female line in families. 
Please be aware that all of the pre-clinical research only recommends using marijuana to prevent the onset of the symptoms; there is no evidence that it can treat the symptoms. 
A nasal spray is available from GW Pharmaceuticals in London that is sold in Canada; I am not aware whether it is available in the US. 
You should consider eating the product. I am not aware that the patch is available or adequately tested. 
I wish you all the best and good mental health!
Gary Wenk
 
 
Me: I disagree that you can't treat the symptoms of Alz. I've seen people that treat their loved ones with cannabis and it helps a lot. I wonder how much this could have helped my mom stay at home longer before moving to a nursing home. She would start to escape her house because she didn't know my dad, and kept asking where Jerry is right to my dad's face. One day when I had my mom we were getting into the car and she took off. I had my diet coke in a glass and had to chase to catch up with her. She wouldn't slow down and I finally just put my drink down on the side of the road. We walked clear over an overpass and to a gas station and then turned around and headed back home. This was about 3 miles round trip. She grew up on a farm and when her brothers went to war she was the farm hand and did all the work that her brothers did. Her body was in good health and strong as an ox. ETA: sorry the video is posted twice, I tried to delete it but to no avail.
Edited by Tacenda
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19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

One thing I learned from my many decades as an educator is that one can usually find a study that supports just about any position one takes or refutes the position another takes.

I doubt that idea.  Do you have any studies that support it?

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12 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I doubt that idea.  Do you have any studies that support it?

No, it's just an observation. An opinion. A supposition based on 40 years experience. An aside. One of the favorite mantras of school administrators is, "Studies show that..........." as a new program is introduced to replace a previous program that had lots of studies to support it. Are you the education world?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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Just wanted to share this other leaf. It's a fruit but the tree leaves can be made into a tea! Wow, I'm going to try it, since I have sleep issues, and IBS. Didn't see anything on Alzheimer's but it does fight inflammation too, so kind of in the area. Just wanted to share in case any on this board could find it useful. I'm going to try the tea leafs. I ordered the leafs for making a tea out of. https://www.amazon.com/NalLife-Organic-Soursop-Graviola-Leaves/dp/B00ET0LIXK

http://15healthbenefits.com/health-benefits-of-soursop-leaves/

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On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:15 PM, Bernard Gui said:
20 hours ago, cinepro said:

I doubt that idea.  Do you have any studies that support it?

One thing I learned from my many decades as an educator is that one can usually find a study that supports just about any position one takes or refutes the position another takes.

Many of my studies support it.  Do you have any that refute it?  If you do I still have many studies that support it.

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:21 PM, hope_for_things said:

Based on the prop 8 fallout and recent initiatives like the attempt to get legislation passed to change the law on recording conversations, I think the church has had some misfires politically and I think with the strong support I’ve seen in the polls for this initiative that the church would be wise not to spend too much effort on this one.  

Are members and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints called upon to stand for what's right ... as long as it's convenient, or as long as the political fallout won't be too great?  "As ye are willing to ... stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life, as long as the political fallout is not too great ..." (Mosiah 18:9).

Yep, there it is!  Sorry. :huh:  My bad.

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2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Are members and leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints called upon to stand for what's right ... as long as it's convenient, or as long as the political fallout won't be too great?  "As ye are willing to ... stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life, as long as the political fallout is not too great ..." (Mosiah 18:9).

Yep, there it is!  Sorry. :huh:  My bad.

How does this relate to whether or not I can righteously eat some brownies with cannibis in them to treat some medical problem I have?  Are you suggesting I should eat them while standing?

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On 6/4/2018 at 8:53 PM, Tacenda said:

Just thought I'd share the response from Dr. Wenk!

My email to him:

Hello Dr. Wenk,

I recently read and watched a Ted talk about the subject matter. I have a question...since smoking is undesirable to me, could a nasal spray work as well, or a patch?
 
My mother had early onset Alzheimer's, she started showing signs at age 62. I am 56 and am really obsessed about it, and want to prevent it from happening. 
 
What do you recommend, and also, I did have a cognitive test done a few months ago and I scored on the low end. 
 
Thanks for your time!
 
His response to me: ... Please be aware that all of the pre-clinical research only recommends using marijuana to prevent the onset of the symptoms; there is no evidence that it can treat the symptoms. ...
Me: I disagree that you can't treat the symptoms of Alz ...
 

So, a doctor (we'll assume he has an MD and is licensed, which means a bachelor's degree, four years of medical school, residency, and internship) says, "You can only prevent the onset of Alzheimer's symptoms with marijuana.  It's not effective treating the disease." 

Meanwhile, anonymous Internet poster Tacenda, with her vast store of wisdom born of anecdotal evidence, says, "I disagree that you cannot treat the symptoms of Alzheimer's using marijuana."  OK.  Where did you go to medical school, again?  Where did you do your residency?  Where did you do your internship?  Can you point us to the double-blind, randomized studies, the results of which have been published in peer-reviewed journals, which support your conclusion (no doubt after years of rigorous, painstaking research)?

Q.E.D.!  I don't know about anyone else, but I'm convinced! :huh: :unsure: :unknw:

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12 minutes ago, Ahab said:

How does this relate to whether or not I can righteously eat some brownies with cannibis in them to treat some medical problem I have?  Are you suggesting I should eat them while standing?

I have no ecclesiastical stewardship over you.  Whether you consume cannabis in an effort to treat any problem you may have is between you, your ecclesiastical leaders, and your Heavenly Father after duly considering the laws regarding possession and use of cannabis in the jurisdiction where you reside.  And whether you consume cannabis edibles while sitting or while standing is entirely up to you. ;)  

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6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

So, a doctor (we'll assume he has an MD and is licensed, which means a bachelor's degree, four years of medical school, residency, and internship) says, "You can only prevent the onset of Alzheimer's symptoms with marijuana.  It's not effective treating the disease." 

Meanwhile, anonymous Internet poster Tacenda, with her vast store of wisdom born of anecdotal evidence, says, "I disagree that you cannot treat the symptoms of Alzheimer's using marijuana."  OK.  Where did you go to medical school, again?  Where did you do your residency?  Where did you do your internship?  Can you point us to the double-blind, randomized studies, the results of which have been published in peer-reviewed journals, which support your conclusion (no doubt after years of rigorous, painstaking research)?

Q.E.D.!  I don't know about anyone else, but I'm convinced! :huh: :unsure: :unknw:

I can't edit the post but i do see how it might look like I responded to Dr. Wenk, but I put (me:) and then only responded to those on the board. I had a feeling some might think that comment was to the doctor. But no, just to you on the board, haha! Glad you brought this up cuz it does look that way. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 10:21 PM, hope_for_things said:
Quote

Indeed.  Perish the thought that the LDS Church could presume to exercise constitutional rights that belong to all other individuals and groups in the U.S.  Who do those Mormons think they are, anyway?

Know you place, peasants!

-Smac

Based on the prop 8 fallout and recent initiatives like the attempt to get legislation passed to change the law on recording conversations, I think the church has had some misfires politically and I think with the strong support I’ve seen in the polls for this initiative that the church would be wise not to spend too much effort on this one.  

As a generality, I think the Church is fairly circumspect about getting into "political" issues.  

My concern is about the threats to the civil liberties the Church and others face because they have chosed to exercise those civil liberties.

Thanks,

-Smac

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7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

As a generality, I think the Church is fairly circumspect about getting into "political" issues.  

My concern is about the threats to the civil liberties the Church and others face because they have chosed to exercise those civil liberties.

Thanks,

-Smac

Nothing illegal about their getting involved politically.  I was more commenting on whether this is a smart decision for them to get actively involved from a PR perspective. 

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14 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Nothing illegal about their getting involved politically.  I was more commenting on whether this is a smart decision for them to get actively involved from a PR perspective. 

Yep.  The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its leaders, and its members are called upon to stand for what's right ... unless doing so isn't smart from a PR perspective.  (See Book of Mormon [KGV] Mosiah 18:9).

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27 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I can't edit the post but i do see how it might look like I responded to Dr. Wenk, but I put (me:) and then only responded to those on the board. I had a feeling some might think that comment was to the doctor. But no, just to you on the board, haha! Glad you brought this up cuz it does look that way. 

Right.  You're telling us we should disregard his assessment (MD, residency, internship, the whole bit) that marijuana can only delay the onset of Alzheimer's symptoms in favor of your assessment (anonymous Internet poster with only anecdotal evidence) that marijuana can actually treat Alzheimer's.  Q.E.D.!

As I said, I'm convinced! :huh: :unsure: :unknw:

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